New Red Mage Spells

[Kieron]

That may have been too much in the first statement. What I really meant was the community's indecisive suggestions towards Rdm requests. Some want Rdm to be a great DD, some want to be at least on par with sch nuking, some want healing capabilities closer to the level of Whm and then there are the ones who want their enfeebling and enhancing to be relevant(this is perfectly reasonable.)

Back in the day Rdm was great at tanking, kiting, Pvp, soloing, enfeebling and enhancing. I was a Rdm main and I dabbled in DD'ing but largely focused on enfeebling and enhancing. I then quit the game around Abyssea's release, a year later I return and rdm is deemed worthless. So i went with my other jobs but it was unfortunate that Rdm fell so low.

Unfortunately due to the design of this game, when one job comes up, another one gets the boot. Whm > Rdm now compared to Rdm > Whm 6 years ago. Sam got dropped hard for War during Abyssea's prime. It's just the nature of this game. If you're not one of the best DD, you're not wanted; if you're not the best healer, you're not wanted.

I'd like some unique content but that probably won't be happening. Either it's the dev's fault(more likely) or the limitations of this games engine. Setting up a zerg is that much easier than having a well constructed fight. Who knows what's going on behind the scene but what is currently happening now, 11 other jobs are having similar issues to Rdm in current end game.

P.S.: Parsing in VW leaves too many possibilities in the equation. Someone may have to proc, have died in battle, etc. A one-handed job should never beat a 2 hander unless they are really, really bad. Math should prove who is the victor in a controlled run with best gear sets.

[ManaKing]

Most RDMs want all of RDM to be better because it is all lacking. If you doubt me, then tell me what RDM is currently up to par on and I will probably laugh at you.

Also, you know what they difference between BLU and RDM really is? BLU have solid DPS for a dual wielder and stopping power because of chain affinity and physical BLU spells. Does that matter for all content? No, but does it matter for some? Yes.

BLU > RDM is blatantly obvious for anyone who actually took the time to build a RDM for either damage or support. What you are only ok at, we are horrible at by comparison. So guess where that leaves us? Shit out of luck. Also we don't have our own special procs for new content so we aren't desired on merit of our job type alone.

That being said, near the top of the gearing for RDM, we come back into a place that looks like a decent DD for dual wield standards. But that's with an Empy/Relic. Not without one. You still have SSC to fall back on, we have temper and enspells..... I hope you can see why the comparison isn't all the peachy.

[Kieron]

Most RDMs want all of RDM to be better because it is all lacking. If you doubt me, then tell me what RDM is currently up to par on and I will probably laugh at you.

Also, you know what they difference between BLU and RDM really is? BLU have solid DPS for a dual wielder and stopping power because of chain affinity and physical BLU spells. Does that matter for all content? No, but does it matter for some? Yes.

BLU > RDM is blatantly obvious for anyone who actually took the time to build a RDM for either damage or support. What you are only ok at, we are horrible at by comparison. So guess where that leaves us? Shit out of luck. Also we don't have our own special procs for new content so we aren't desired on merit of our job type alone.

That being said, near the top of the gearing for RDM, we come back into a place that looks like a decent DD for dual wield standards. But that's with an Empy/Relic. Not without one. You still have SSC to fall back on, we have temper and enspells..... I hope you can see why the comparison isn't all the peachy.

The DPS is hampered in VW when we have to hold spells to proc, Physical spells are absolutely horrid in VW due to level correction and weak attack formula. Yes there are other method's but those ultimately slow the groups progress down. 1 minute to switch a spell then proc is a lot of time. PUGS generally do not pick Blu for Nyzul, ever. War/Drk/Sam or go home. Legion I have no experience with but I highly doubt Blu is welcome there either. Vorpal blade and Requiescat are comparable, both jobs suffer without an empy. If you didn't notice, the community in this game has a go big or go home mentality.

Since I'm bored of debating on this subject. My suggestion? Quit the game, save yourself 12.95 and add it to your savings account, the dev's obviously aren't listening. Tell your issues to PUP, BST and DNC mains, jobs who generally haven't seen the light of day in an end game event since release. They'll certainly get a kick out of your position now.

[Lastranger]

That may have been too much in the first statement. What I really meant was the community's indecisive suggestions towards Rdm requests. Some want Rdm to be a great DD, some want to be at least on par with sch nuking, some want healing capabilities closer to the level of Whm and then there are the ones who want their enfeebling and enhancing to be relevant(this is perfectly reasonable.)

Back in the day Rdm was great at tanking, kiting, Pvp, soloing, enfeebling and enhancing. I was a Rdm main and I dabbled in DD'ing but largely focused on enfeebling and enhancing. I then quit the game around Abyssea's release, a year later I return and rdm is deemed worthless. So i went with my other jobs but it was unfortunate that Rdm fell so low.

Unfortunately due to the design of this game, when one job comes up, another one gets the boot. Whm > Rdm now compared to Rdm > Whm 6 years ago. Sam got dropped hard for War during Abyssea's prime. It's just the nature of this game. If you're not one of the best DD, you're not wanted; if you're not the best healer, you're not wanted.

I'd like some unique content but that probably won't be happening. Either it's the dev's fault(more likely) or the limitations of this games engine. Setting up a zerg is that much easier than having a well constructed fight. Who knows what's going on behind the scene but what is currently happening now, 11 other jobs are having similar issues to Rdm in current end game.

P.S.: Parsing in VW leaves too many possibilities in the equation. Someone may have to proc, have died in battle, etc. A one-handed job should never beat a 2 hander unless they are really, really bad. Math should prove who is the victor in a controlled run with best gear sets.

Thing is Rdm has been lacking in proper updates since release of Smn / Blu /Sch , much probably due too the devs thinking rdm was overpowered, making them fear any change that would further boost rdm.
When they released the enspell-2 series it was gimped so it only did dmg on main first hit witch was an idiotic move.

If anything we got superscrewed on merits that could have been the big strongpoint for deciding witch path/type rdm u wanted to be, instead we got spell's that after level cap raise is keeping us from getting upgrades of those spells.
Merits should have been about boosting each of the 3 roles rdm are a mix of, White magic enhancing / Black magic Enfeebling / Magic Melee

Fearing that rdm would steal Whm place they seem intent on never ever giving rdm access to AOE enhancment, even to the point where they willing to waste spell spots just so rdm can get self only spell's, yet most rdm will tell u they dont want Cycles of single types spells because its ineffective in a Party setting
Same with Blm allways getting the Aoe of enfeebles rather then Rdm.

As much as i hate seing ides coming from rdm pages ending on new jobs, i remain hopefull that one day the dev's might get to work and redo Rdm adding both new spells enhancing/enfeebling as well as fix enspells-2 and mayby even add some Ja to be used to further boost enspells for those who play melee, also it seems melee gear is a bit lacking in newer 99 content.


I know Rdm is a hybrid but i disagrea that it should be forever weaker then any one of it's components, rather it should have been made so that with gear + merits u could fullfill that role and compeete with others on a level field ( that said im not sugesting rdm being healer but enhancer in white magic, not nuker but enfeebler in Black magic and enspells to be the main dmg dealing effect when meleeing bringing rdm closer to DD's)

the fact that Rdm forum is overflowing with sugestions is in itself a good indicator that something needs to be done with the job and im not talking Graivity 2 spells here ( although the evasion down boost is nice ) , no 1 thing will fix it, but if redesigned with the new content in mind as well as new job's that have come and will come we remain forever hopefull.

PS. u should know no one ever quits FFxi forever, it allways draws old players back eventually .......... . . . .

[Rooj]

the fact that Rdm forum is overflowing with sugestions is in itself a good indicator that something needs to be done with the job

Every class forum for every MMO is cluttered with complaints about how underpowered/broken their class is, despite how utterly wrong they usually are.

I don't think that RDM is as weak as everyone is making it out to be, but I do think it could use a little boost. Problem is, and this always happens with hybrids, is that people just can't deal with the fact that they can't do certain roles as good or better than other classes. You've got people on here asking for RDM to melee as good as MNK, to nuke as good as BLM, and to heal as good as WHM. Why? It will never make any sense for RDM to be equal to other jobs in those areas... This is the price you pay when you play a jack of all trades class. Everything that you can do will never be as good as the class(es) that specialize in those roles.

There are 2 things that really annoy me about RDM right now... 1. is having so many buffs but the durations not really scaling well with the amount that we have. It would be nice to have longer durations or maybe some way to combine some of our buffs into fewer spells. And I'm only talking about self buffing here... casting spells on other players is a whole other story.

Number 2 would be having to use a magian staff to do decent nuking damage. This is pretty annoying when you're meleeing. I still don't understand why there were no sword versions added with similar stats as the staves. I suppose I could only nuke after WSing, but losing even 10 TP for it is kind of bleh. I think that the en-spells should be reworked a little to also directly increase the spell damage of the element. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe +1 affinity on the staves equates to about +10% damage, so you get +60% spell damage from the magian staves. I'd say a 33% increase to spell damage from an en-spell would suffice. And make it so it only works when using a 1 handed weapon, so we can't get a total of 93% from using the en-spell and the staff together.

[Sunrider]

You keep blaming RDM's hybridization woes on people with unrealistic expectations. However, this doesn't explain why the job simply doesn't get used in events. The curse of the hybrid isn't in it's players hoping for more, the curse lay in perennially being passed over in favor of more specialized classes.

And one thing needs to be put to rest: melee proponents are not interested in "meleeing as good as MNK." That was an ignorant, sensationalist statement in 2004, and it's an ignorant, sensationalist statement now. Any nutjob expecting that should be properly ignored as such.

But, we don't think a significant improvement in RDM's melee capability be in any way threatening to specialist DDs. WAR isn't threatened if RDM got native Double Attack, RNG isn't in threatened if RDM got native Acc. Bonus or if En-spells were applied to ranged attacks, PLD wouldn't be threatened if we could hold hate better or if we had A Sword Skill. Not a single DD would be in danger of losing invites if RDM's En-spell damage were boosted. MNK isn't in trouble if RDM could Counter attacks. NIN isn't threatened if our Parry were improved. None of those jobs would lose relevance, RDM would simply be a little better.



But I do agree with you on your latter points. S-E is far to conservative with buff durations. They keep trying to solve RDM's lack of powers with new buffs, but all they do is add to an already taxed cycle. I wouldn't mind having to cast a full macro bar of buffs if their base duration was a minimum of six minutes. Composure was a nice start, time to improve upon it; draw out the duration of the spells natively.

It would also be nice to see a mechanism introduced freeing RDM from the necessity of staff use. Either native M. Acc Bonus with more M. Atk Bonus traits, or something similar to BLU, tying our spell potency to our swords' damage ratings. En-spells could certainly stand to do more, perhaps offer affinity while in effect, like a single-person weather effect.



In the end, whatever RDM gets, the job still isn't a specialist. The only way it will have a place in events is to make events where it's place is assured. RDM stands out in events that reward multi-talents and less defined roles. Battle fields like Campaign and Besieged are where RDM's non-specialized talents see the greatest reward; specialization only comes up short. Walk of Echoes had potential, but the setup catered too much to party dynamics. Then next event in which RDM will be welcome will have to allow for more dynamic play and more individualistic rewards.

[Economizer]

Now you say all this but it goes back to a simple fact, RDM gets little use in endgame outside of Chainspell Stun at this point.

Summoner's new 2hour will allow it to chainstun AoE with Ramuh's Shock Squall right?

Whm's can have a Refresh Idle set and sub Rdm for refresh and convert.

Hey look it's this mistruth again!

Good White Mages don't sub Red Mage unless you need something else Red Mage can do like Gravity or easier Dispel access. Scholar sub has more benefits including MP management on par or better then /RDM.

And if White Mages couldn't manage MP without an outside Refresh source, people would just bring White Mage + Bard, or Scholars instead of both.

There is a sizable gap between jobs that can cast Cure IV natively and those that cannot. There is not a sizable gap between being able to cast Cure IV and Cure V/VI in the vast majority of situations, but there is much bigger gap between being able to cast Cure IV and being able to case Curaga spells. I contend that at this point SE could delete Cure V/VI (and at any point SE could have deleted or never made Cure VI and not a single good White Mage would be affected in a major way, the spell sucks) and White Mage would still be fairly effective due to Curaga spells (and Afflatus Solace allowing them to barely keep up with Scholar's weather advantage).

If you're not one of the best DD, you're not wanted; if you're not the best healer, you're not wanted.

Healing doesn't work the same way, healing works with the bare minimum to get by - then you prioritize anything that ends the fight quicker. The problem isn't that White Mage is better at healing since there are many fights you can just get by with Cure IV and no Cure V/VI or Curaga spells, the problem is either that you can get by with subjob healing in those cases, or that another job that can heal is better at ending the fight quicker in some way. I'd bet it is usually the second one as well.

Since Scholar can heal (and heal better) and end the fight quicker then Red Mage, what Red Mage needs in order to be selected for parties is to be able to end fights quicker then Scholar (somehow I doubt White Mages end fights, where either are adequate to heal, quicker then Red Mages between enfeebles and nukes). There are a few ways you can do this, either increase Red Mage's direct DD compared to Scholar (unlikely between skillchaining nukes and being able to cast tier V spells), or increase Red Mage's buffing ability compared to Scholar (unlikely if 2hours are used; test server testing of RDM's new 2hour indicates against this as well), or increase Red Mage's enfeebling ability compared to Scholar.

I think it is way more likely that Red Mage will become better at ending a fight in comparison to Scholar or even White Mage then it is that Red Mage will become better at healing in relation to its current ability. The only way I could see a major change in this standing (so basically, not talking about Red Mage getting Regen III and maybe even IV like it should get) would be for either Afflatus Solace or Aurorastorm to be subjob useable (if either is to happen, both should happen to retain some parity, but any of these is unlikely).

Hopefully this lengthy explanation helps dispel the ever popular myth about the job, but for anyone wanting an abbreviated soundbite - Red Mage falls short never because of specialists, but because of stanced hybrid jobs like Scholar and Blue Mage that fill the niches Red Mage would fill otherwise while being better at the roles Red Mage does.

Fearing that rdm would steal Whm place they seem intent on never ever giving rdm access to AOE enhancment, even to the point where they willing to waste spell spots just so rdm can get self only spell's,

So stupid. Even if they didn't want Red Mage to get the same spell effects they could have at least given them both the same spells then given White Mage a job trait that makes the buffs AoE to save spell slots. It isn't even like the Protect line where you can cast them on other people (which has obvious tactical uses).

Like many others I'm not sure I really agree with SE on this one, and it even makes me question the reasoning behind barspells a bit too.

Number 2 would be having to use a magian staff to do decent nuking damage. This is pretty annoying when you're meleeing. I still don't understand why there were no sword versions added with similar stats as the staves..

Kinda maybe pushes the idea of a high level (90+) "Chatoyant" Shield of shorts, doesn't it? You'd be giving up Dual Wielding, but you'd be gaining magic damage. It would be a logical tradeoff. It would also make the Enspell tier II make a tiny bit more sense, especially if they got the benefit off of magic affinity that nukes do.

Such a universal affinity shield might drop stats like cure potency and stat boosts in exchange for an Occult Acumen stat or a stat similar to that that works with all spells as well, thus making it a very nice tradeoff with Dual Wield. The shield could even be limited to jobs that use shields like PLD/RDM/WHM (and maybe BST/THF/WAR) if it would be too powerful in the hands of BLU/BLM/SCH/SMN for example.

[saevel]

WHM has Curaga III / IV along with Solace and Emp +2 legs. That pretty much solidifies them as the absolute greatest healer in the game. I actually get pissed when WHM's don't use Curaga III / IV, it's that amazing (/SCH obviously).

And RDM ... yeah it's been screwed over on all aspects. SE's attempt to keep the job from being "very powerful" has resulted in it simply being dead.

[Rooj]

Oh, I am loving this idea of shields that greatly increase magic damage. Very nice. It would be neat to have the option of having both an ice sword and ice shield to really up your Blizzard's damage, or perhaps a thunder sword and an ice shield to have a little versatility. Interesting.

Frankly I much prefer sword+shield over dual wield...

[Kristal]

Tape a chatoyant staff to a genbu's shield and make it RDM only!