Dispel II

[Vortex]

Hey guys,

We let the development team know about your suggestion and inquiry about Dispel II. They mentioned that since Dispel's recast timer isn't considerably long, multiple buff removals may not be the best upgrade for the tier II version and from a balance perspective removing every effect from an enemy is a bit too powerful. To compare some other magic spells, Erase only removes one spell at a time, while Esuna requires Afflatus Misery to utilize its multiple debuff removal. Taking this example into consideration, what kind of effects would you like to see for Dispel II or perhaps a new magic spell?

Ultima, Light based spell. which jobs gets? that is the open debate.

Edit: We have a spell that very strong in every element catagory except light as far as pure magic casting goes (not pet commands, smn etc) i think this would fit nicely. and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly, they are healers, and most won't focus on pure magic damage or even have time for it.

[Demon6324236]

Ultima, Light based spell. which jobs gets? that is the open debate.

Edit: We have a spell that very strong in every element catagory except light as far as pure magic casting goes (not pet commands, smn etc) i think this would fit nicely. and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly, they are healers, and most won't focus on pure magic damage or even have time for it.

As much as I agree it would be on WHM probably. But it would be cool, maybe give us a use for Divine Magic again after all this time!

[Economizer]

and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly

lolwut? Prove to me that a White Mage can constantly outdamage a Red Mage without busting out the melee. Having five more elements, a tier IV, better MP capabilities, and not having to charge gimpy spells definitely helps. Healing and support is always a risky role, since once you reach "good enough" you can just start focusing on doing other stuff, like nuking.

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On Dispel II, perhaps it should be an elementaless dispel (much like Meteor has no element)? Or perhaps it should not only remove the effect, but puts an also makes it so the same effect can't be reapplied for some time? Or it could remove the effect, then put a severe stat-down effect much like Impact, but without the huge MP cost.

Who knows? Maybe Dispel II isn't the right spell, but we'll see.

[Demon6324236]

Prove to me that a White Mage can constantly outdamage a Red Mage without busting out the melee. Having five more elements, a tier IV, better MP capabilities, and not having to charge gimpy spells definitely helps. Healing and support is always a risky role, since once you reach "good enough" you can just start focusing on doing other stuff, like nuking.

Depends what you fight, so far as I have ever understood Banish was made to kill undead, also there is gear that makes it even more potent against undead. Also many pieces of gear are now spread between many mage jobs, as such you can stack heavy amounts of MAB onto a WHM for Banish/Holy if you so choose, because alot of RDM BLM & SCH MAB gear, can be used by WHM as well.

[Demon6324236]

Depends what you fight, so far as I have ever understood Banish was made to kill undead, also there is gear that makes it even more potent against undead. Also many pieces of gear are now spread between many mage jobs, as such you can stack heavy amounts of MAB onto a WHM for Banish/Holy if you so choose, because alot of RDM BLM & SCH MAB gear, can be used by WHM as well.

Example 1 & Example 2, either way just wanted to point that out. End factor is that WHM does have its endgame nuke though, it has Holy II. RDM has no endgame nuke though. SCH has Kaustra already, which even if its lv5, it was included at 95, and its the most potent spell for SCH due to the DoT. BLM has Meteor. RDM has no no endgame nuke, we have no new healing spells after LV48 unless you want to count our lackluster Regen II, which is at 76 and even with Composure & AF3+2 Feet/Cape we have shorter duration than a SCH's Regen V I think. We have no special enfeeble only we get, we get no enhancing magic we can provide that is unique to us. We have no real use for Divine or Dark magic, and our melee is sub-par because we have low skill caps. Can't we have something nice please?

[Muras]

Can't we have something nice please?

After giving it some thought, if you want a final "awesome" RDM spell, I think Grand Cross might fit RDM. For those who're more unfamiliar with other FF games, it's a spell/ability usually used by most final bosses in the other games (Sephiroth used Supernova instead, but it was pretty much the same thing). It usually inflicts mild to severe damage along with a slew of horrible enfeebling effects like poison, silence, slow, paralyze, blind, zombie, confuse and so on. Basically Bad Breath, but better and a whole lot cooler. Make it AoE, deal dark damage (Maybe Water V-ish?) and inflict a wide variety of random enfeebs with high chance of landing.

I dunno, maybe a little over powered but it could probably be balanced in some form. Was just a thought, heh.

[Demon6324236]

After giving it some thought, if you want a final "awesome" RDM spell, I think Grand Cross might fit RDM. For those who're more unfamiliar with other FF games, it's a spell/ability usually used by most final bosses in the other games (Sephiroth used Supernova instead, but it was pretty much the same thing). It usually inflicts mild to severe damage along with a slew of horrible enfeebling effects like poison, silence, slow, paralyze, blind, zombie, confuse and so on. Basically Bad Breath, but better and a whole lot cooler. Make it AoE, deal dark damage (Maybe Water V-ish?) and inflict a wide variety of random enfeebs with high chance of landing.

I dunno, maybe a little over powered but it could probably be balanced in some form. Was just a thought, heh.

Honestly a Bad Breath type of spell would be nice to have, and it could also potentially add some of the enfeebling we do not get. The fact it does damage also makes it more effective as well. As an offset to RDM's Fast Cast I was thinking a spell of such nature should have a casting time of say... 20 seconds, natural FC alone would bring it down 14(Impact's cast time) with RDM AF1 Hat & AF2 Body, it would be 10, capped Fast Cast (Of which I have not been able to determine how you can actually hit via Fast Cast gear alone using AH.com...) it would be 4 seconds. The recast should be 10 minutes, again, Fast Cast can lower this to 5 minutes, however, that would mean lowering the potency of it. To ask for a spell that causes many enfeeblings and damage is already going to be asking alot of SE I think, so a long recast and potentially long cast timer seems fair.

The spell should be enfeebling if possible, for the fact it is where our highest skill lies, to give us our most potent spell as an elemental or dark attributed spell when our skills suffer, would be... disappointing. However I'm not sure how things are with magic, they have told us it is impossible to make a spell target your alliance members but not everyone outside of your party for how they have the game built. So I would hope, it could go off of our enfeebling magic. AoE is as good as it is bad, it would be nice, but we have seen much of the past where RDM has been told no to AoE effects, both enhancing and enfeebling, shown by Accession & Poisonga. Also with the potency of this spell it could make it unbalanced if it were to hit to many targets in one cast. Dark damage isn't a bad idea, but we have powerful dark based forms of damage, where as light doesn't really, also dark is heavy resisted by certain kinds of mobs, where as I don't know that light is actually resisted by much at all. This is as much a good thing as it is a bad thing, mobs resistant to it is more balanced.

The MP cost should be about 500 in my opinion, enough it does not kill a RDMs MP supply to cast it, the 666 of Impact made sense, it was for many jobs, but outside of items or buffs, my RDM has only 758MP in my melee gear, 849 in enfeebling magic gear. Meteor does cost alot, and takes many to be useful, BLMs have more MP, the 418MP for Meteor still makes a sizable dent, and so I think our "Grand Cross" would be ok to cost more, since we only need one person and our MP pool is smaller.

This is my ideas on balancing it, and how it should work. :x

[saevel]

Depends what you fight, so far as I have ever understood Banish was made to kill undead, also there is gear that makes it even more potent against undead. Also many pieces of gear are now spread between many mage jobs, as such you can stack heavy amounts of MAB onto a WHM for Banish/Holy if you so choose, because alot of RDM BLM & SCH MAB gear, can be used by WHM as well.

Nope, that came at a later update.

Banish was originally a light elemental nuke that had power between Wind and Fire. It use's MAB / Light staff and originally used dINT. SE was incredibly lazy with it and just copied over the formula used for the other elemental nukes. Later on SE modified Banish to use MND and gave it the effect of lowering undeads resistances.

In any case, I fully believe WHM should have Banish IV / V and Banishga III / Banishja.

[Demon6324236]

Nope, that came at a later update.

Banish was originally a light elemental nuke that had power between Wind and Fire. It use's MAB / Light staff and originally used dINT. SE was incredibly lazy with it and just copied over the formula used for the other elemental nukes. Later on SE modified Banish to use MND and gave it the effect of lowering undeads resistances.

In any case, I fully believe WHM should have Banish IV / V and Banishga III / Banishja.

Good to know. As for Banish IV/V & Ga III/Ja. I would like to agree, but it does go back to the idea that WHM is mainly a healer, to give them the tools for damage and the power to defend themselves is one thing, however... To give them the power to deal high damage via Banish spells, seems questionable. RDM does not get T5 nukes, we are limited to T4, and we are an all round job, T3 is the limit to DRK, which is mainly a DD with some casting involved. To see WHM limited to T3 would not be much different in my eyes. But it does also make sense to add them some more damaging spells as light damage spells are lacking. I would not mind either way, it would be nice, and PLD might even see more Banish spells itself, not used, but they are nice to have access to. In a perfect world of FFXI where enmity mattered, Banish would help PLD alot on melee resistant/magic vulnerable mobs. ^_^

[Sasaraixx]

lolwut? Prove to me that a White Mage can constantly outdamage a Red Mage without busting out the melee.

That was not the point of the post so there is no need to prove something that was not even stated. [S]he was simply stating that Holy 2 can put out decent numbers in certain circumstances. You can argue the validity of that statement but there was nothing in it that could lead you to believe [s]he was arguing that WHM can outnuke RDM.

Back on topic, I don't think Dispel II is the right spell. There are so many enfeebles in the game that RDM does not have access to and I think that would be a good place to start.