Dispel II

[Demon6324236]

Ultima, Light based spell. which jobs gets? that is the open debate.

Edit: We have a spell that very strong in every element catagory except light as far as pure magic casting goes (not pet commands, smn etc) i think this would fit nicely. and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly, they are healers, and most won't focus on pure magic damage or even have time for it.

As much as I agree it would be on WHM probably. But it would be cool, maybe give us a use for Divine Magic again after all this time!

[Ophannus]

The whole point of Dispel II was to remove multiple status enhancements. It doesn't come across as overpowered to me because it's really just a convenience for RDM. Giving RDM some kind of specialty in terms of debuffing a target would be nice but as of now we have not one single debuff that is unique to our job. WHM has Addle. Gravity II is a joke because everyone /RDM can use Gravity I which is just as good as Gravity 2 for its intended effect(weight) and the fact that most things are immune to it doesn't help. We can't really cast enhancing spells on others and our self enhancing spells go wasted on our lousy damage dealing skills(low skill levels, no traits or decent gear for us to melee with). Did you know RDM's best body for Chant du Cygne at 99 is a level 70ish body piece from ZNMs?


It's hard to think of new enfeebles for RDM without the developers considering it 'over powered'. For starters how about

Mystify
Level 92
Lowers target's Magic Defense.

Attenuate
Level 96
Lower target's Critical Hit evasion.

Virtus
Level 98
Boosts Attack.




Also while we're on the topic of RDM and have your attention Camate, a while back when the RDM community asked about granting us Fencer(since RDMs are Fencers yet BRD and BST have the trait) the development team responded that instead of giving RDM the trait, they would instead like to expand upon RDM's melee capabilities including Fencer by giving them gear with Fencer on it. There isn't even one.

[Ophannus]

RDM can't have Cure V because we're not "Healing Specialists" yet WHM gets their own proprietary healing spells and ability likes Afflatus. What proprietary, unique enfeebling spells does RDM have? Dispel? Nope. Gravity? Subbable. Gravity II? VERY lacklaster. RDM has no unique enfeebles as an Enfeebling Specialist, but WHM the Healing Specialist also happens to get most of our enfeebles as WHM/RDM(not to mention refresh and convert).

[Ophannus]

Can't DRK absorb multiple status enhancements with "Absorb-Attri" + Nethervoid? Not only can they dispel two buffs, they get to absorb them. I don't see why Saboteur+Dispel can't do that.

[Llana_Virren]

RDM can't have Cure V because we're not "Healing Specialists" yet WHM gets their own proprietary healing spells and ability likes Afflatus. What proprietary, unique enfeebling spells does RDM have? Dispel? Nope. Gravity? Subbable. Gravity II? VERY lacklaster. RDM has no unique enfeebles as an Enfeebling Specialist, but WHM the Healing Specialist also happens to get most of our enfeebles as WHM/RDM(not to mention refresh and convert).

Remember, despite our A+ skill in enfeebling magic, SE has maintained that RDM is not an "Enfeebling" specialist... rather, a generic "fill the gap" class.

[Muras]

I don't play RDM, but I'm still a fan of the job, so I got a few things to say...

Dispel II Removes one beneficial magic effect from the enemy and may inflict the opposite effect.

Dispel II vs. Attack Boost ---> Attack Down, etc.
Dispel II vs. Protect ---> No opposite effect, no negative status inflicted.

Invert would be a neat spell, but I think we'd get some weird effects. Like, Berserk turning into Defender, and Defender turning into Berserk. I'd imagine Inverting Protect would just inflict Defence Down though... Or they could add new detrimental effects that don't co-exist with Pro/Shell. But then, you know, they'd get ideas like adding mobs that cast stuff like Shatterga and Meltga or something, overwriting Pro/Shell and giving players Shatter and Melt statuses (Defence Down/Magic Damage Taken+). Heh, you know this dev team would do it. But I digress.

Actually, there ya go, give RDM Shatter and Melt. They need more unique enfeebs that other jobs don't have.

Okipuit - how does the dev team feel about giving dispel 1 the ability to remove multiple buffs under saboteur, sort of like how esuna can remove multiple debuffs under misery. Since Sab has a 5 minute recast I don't think a multi-dispel would be too powerful.

I think this should be added. Not just because of the Afflatus Misery thing either, but DRK has something similar: Under Nether Void (Also a 5 minute timer) Absorb-Attri absorbs 2 buffs. Heck, since the RDM doesn't gain any buffs either, maybe make it Dispel 3 even.

Ultima, Light based spell. which jobs gets? that is the open debate.

Edit: We have a spell that very strong in every element catagory except light as far as pure magic casting goes (not pet commands, smn etc) i think this would fit nicely. and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly, they are healers, and most won't focus on pure magic damage or even have time for it.

Getting a little off topic but...

I would like Ultima to be added for sure, as I see it as a more iconic FF spell than Meteor. And while my opinion is a little biased due to the fact that I have Lv99 SCH, I feel Ultima should go to SCH. My reasons are since Ultima has always been a Black Magic spell in the FF universe, that leaves it to BLM SCH and RDM. I don't feel RDM should have it for the same reasons DRK definitely wouldn't have it; Super powerful nukes aren't meant for those jobs.

Between BLM and SCH, I just feel SCH makes more sense. SCH could really use at least one AoE elemental spell, while BLM has countless AoEs. If Ultima really does turn out to be light elemental, it wouldn't be too weird for SCH to receive it since it already has another light elemental in the form of Luminohelix (A minor detail, I know, but it's still true).

Finally though, I wouldn't want to see Ultima do as much damage as Meteor... I think it should be weaker (At least Thundaga III strength), but perhaps inflict a moderate Dia effect on the mobs it hits to go along with the DoT image SCH has. I think this also adds some risk to using the spell as you couldn't sleep the mobs after casting it, encouraging more strategic use of it. Put it on a 3 minute timer, whatever. It'll just be nice to have on SCH for the times that need a AoE nuke.

[Kyte]

Did you know RDM's best body for Chant du Cygne at 99 is a level 70ish body piece from ZNMs?

What body piece are you talking about? I can't remember RDM getting any body pieces from those.

EDIT: I think you're referring to Antares Harness maybe? That's actually from super-Serket. (Not that that weakens your point or anything)

[Demon6324236]

Getting a little off topic but...

what kind of effects would you like to see for Dispel II or perhaps a new magic spell?

Not so much, I would rather go with the question we are asked via SE rather than original topic, but yeah, either way it is and it isn't :x

Between BLM and SCH, I just feel SCH makes more sense. SCH could really use at least one AoE elemental spell, while BLM has countless AoEs. If Ultima really does turn out to be light elemental, it wouldn't be too weird for SCH to receive it since it already has another light elemental in the form of Luminohelix (A minor detail, I know, but it's still true).

Agreed, and actually I don't see it as a minor detail, SCH is actually the only job that can cast a light black magic in the game. Which is what Ultima is, so it does make sense, however, RDM is also very lacking in the department of magic damage imo. Ultima would be like a light version of Impact, T5 Light Nuke Damage, which would be good and powerful, but it should cost a high amount as Impact did. Its enfeebling power could be something like a Bio+Dia effect since they do not stack. Now like Impact, which has its high MP cost of 666, I think RDM should have Ultima at 500MP, with a high cast time (Fast Cast can make it faster but due to RDM's high fast cast, to much would make this unbalanced) and a high recast time (Again, because of Fast Cast balancing.)

Honestly I always have thought RDM should get Impact as its own spell, which is why I'm saying Ultima should be similar, it is enfeebling, and magic damage, and would let us have some magic power we have never actually been able to use. It also plays to RDM's style, its many styles in 1, RDM is WHM+BLM+WAR, and Impact/Ultima would be Enfeebling+Elemental+Dark/Divine magics, simply my take on it.

We can't really cast enhancing spells on others and our self enhancing spells go wasted on our lousy damage dealing skills(low skill levels, no traits or decent gear for us to melee with). Did you know RDM's best body for Chant du Cygne at 99 is a level 70ish body piece from ZNMs?

Also while we're on the topic of RDM and have your attention Camate, a while back when the RDM community asked about granting us Fencer(since RDMs are Fencers yet BRD and BST have the trait) the development team responded that instead of giving RDM the trait, they would instead like to expand upon RDM's melee capabilities including Fencer by giving them gear with Fencer on it. There isn't even one.

Note:Okipuit not Camate, just sayin.

While I completely agree RDM does need a melee boost, I will also give SE credit where it is due. We have in fact got alot of things for meleeing. Temper is a great addition, if it were made to target others it would not help us melee, it would let us help the other DDs melee while we get laughed at for trying. I also understand they have been lacking in giving us rounded gear, meaning good gear for all spots, especially CDC gear. However, look at this set here, it shows just how much we do have for melee, we can do it. Lv90~99 gear has been amazing for meleeing RDMs, but the fact is we also have the greatest flaw with this. Much of this gear that stands out is from VW, which we all know how drops are for that! But I do agree, we do need more and some traits would be nice, I just wanted to point out there has been massive improvements in my opinion over our past. And CDC is easily lacking in gear, for the best set I could put together when I tried is here where there is only 1 piece we have actually gotten for this in my set, since lv90. I would like to think Gain-DEX helps balance this, however I also think it is unfair RDM has been given so little gear since 90 to help our most deadly of WSs.

[Asymptotic]

I don't play RDM, but I'm still a fan of the job, so I got a few things to say...



Invert would be a neat spell, but I think we'd get some weird effects. Like, Berserk turning into Defender, and Defender turning into Berserk. I'd imagine Inverting Protect would just inflict Defence Down though... Or they could add new detrimental effects that don't co-exist with Pro/Shell. But then, you know, they'd get ideas like adding mobs that cast stuff like Shatterga and Meltga or something, overwriting Pro/Shell and giving players Shatter and Melt statuses (Defence Down/Magic Damage Taken+). Heh, you know this dev team would do it. But I digress.

Actually, there ya go, give RDM Shatter and Melt. They need more unique enfeebs that other jobs don't have.

I would see them kind of distinguishing things like Attack Bonus from Protect, Berserk, etc. Berserk/Defender don't overwrite each other, Def down coexists with shell etc.

But you Can't have STR+ and STR-
MDEF+ and MDEF-
DEF+ and DEF-
Haste and Slow etc.

[Economizer]

and altho holy 2 and banish CAN be strong with whm if used properly

lolwut? Prove to me that a White Mage can constantly outdamage a Red Mage without busting out the melee. Having five more elements, a tier IV, better MP capabilities, and not having to charge gimpy spells definitely helps. Healing and support is always a risky role, since once you reach "good enough" you can just start focusing on doing other stuff, like nuking.

-

On Dispel II, perhaps it should be an elementaless dispel (much like Meteor has no element)? Or perhaps it should not only remove the effect, but puts an also makes it so the same effect can't be reapplied for some time? Or it could remove the effect, then put a severe stat-down effect much like Impact, but without the huge MP cost.

Who knows? Maybe Dispel II isn't the right spell, but we'll see.