Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

[Asymptotic]

DNC healing absolutely is limited by TP gain. Maybe not if you have maximum haste and never use steps, otherwise, you will eventually run out of TP

For every 20 tp you spend on steps, you get 100 tp back from reverse flourish. You need to learn to play DNC better, or learn something about the job.

They ARE good ideas, when the conditions are right. Is it the number one, best idea for everything? Of course not. Choosing not to play WHM is not choosing to be lazy, it's choosing to do what's fun and enjoyable over what's not. This is an MMORPG with thousands of players.

I didn't say you had to level WHM. I said that if you need a dedicated healer, you should just bring one, instead of using a shitty one (regain slow DNC). Since we're talking about Abyssea, though, there's barely anything you need a healer for. If you have a DNC, and you're low on healing, you're better off throwing the DNC on it with DD atmas because they probably won't take as much damage as any other job would.

It's not required of everyone to have all 20 jobs leveled up to 99 with full gear sets for all of them. You may have forgotten that because it's relatively easy to level up a job now. Only an elitist would demand the maximally optimal conditions for everything.

I have 4 jobs at 99. 3 of them are geared.

Something doesn't have to be perfectly 100% optimal to work just fine and be a good, workable idea.

No it doesn't. This still doesn't make slowed-regain DNC a good idea for a healer.

Players do not HAVE to level up WHM to heal, players do not HAVE to level up MNK or WAR to DD or tank, players do not HAVE to level up BLM to cast damaging magic, players don't even HAVE to level up THF to get any TH anymore. If people listen to you, they'll think they HAVE to do everything the same way in order to enjoy the game or be rewarded, and that's not true.

I said none of these things.

So hey, all of you who haven't gotten all jobs 99! You're all lazy bums! Get out there and don't play any other part of the game until you have them all done and have amazing gear sets for all of them, because everyone will hate you if you're "sub-optimal!"

I only hate you if you're a crappy player. Number of jobs levelled has no bearing on this. If the best you could think of to do with your DNC was put on regain atmas and stand back and waltz, then you're a crappy player.

Leeching is hardly optimal either, but people, even elitists, do that all the time. That doesn't make any sense to me, it sounds like not practicing what one preaches.

How is getting XP while AFK when I wouldn't otherwise be on the game not optimal?

Umm, no, we haven't established that.

Whoosh.

Also, this wasn't used in an EXP party, it was used on abyssea HNMs. I'd like to see you waltz every time the recast comes up against the game's most dangerous NMs that people generally avoid having more than 1-2 people meleeing on at a time and not run out of TP.

ITT: 2010
Also calling Abyssea NMs dangerous doesn't speak much for your credibility.
If we're talking about NMs that are actually dangerous, we're talking Arch Dynamis Lord, Arch Diabolos, potentially Arch Angra Mainyu, and maybe Voidwatch. DNC has no business healing in any of those events.

Personally, I tanked everything in Abyssea on DNC ... from Glavoid to Rani, because this was its most effective use at the time.

Leeching is doing nothing when you could be and are expected to be doing something. Leeching is NOT simply being less than 100% perfectly optimal while still actively participating. Your definition of leeching describes 99% of players who cannot obtain optimal gear or haven't been playing long enough to obtain it.

No, my definition of leeching is a DNC being useless. The job has a terrible enough reputation without bad players making it worse.

I take the jobs I play very seriously, and I do gear them all up as best I can. I also try to find creative and effective ways to use them where people don't expect. I'll ask "Is this possible?" then try it. "Hey cool, it is!" Just because one chooses to stick to a limited set of jobs, does not mean they're being "lazy."

hey, it's their money, they can do what they want with it.

Like I said, I have 4 jobs, 3 of which are geared. But you know what? You're right. It's a MMO. If you don't want to level X job that makes Y event more efficient, take someone else who does.

[hexxen]

So here is my two cents:

1) Exping is a HUGE part of RPGs but it was enjoyable in FFXI for a long time. I LOVED making parties and going and killing dhamels in Bibiki and Puddings in Mt.Z (though that could be done solo but was still a blast). The fact is I left before Abyssea arrived and now that I am back I ONLY Exp in Aby. It probably isn't impossible but putting together a regular party to just go have fun is something that you can pretty much NOT DO ANYMORE. On there is no low level gear on the AH (at least on my server) so gearing low level jobs so you could party is actually pretty intense and time consuming collecting crafters to make it for you. So LEECHING (Keying or KI holding (dont know what this one is though) or paying) is your only option now. This means that EXPing is now not interesting at all and insanely stupid. I have fallen asleep on parties before and woke up to be 99 and sent tells to people thanking them. I agree with the statement that EXPn is no longer a factor in FFXI even though it is an RPG. Thus, Leeching is OK in my book wither it be Keyers or out right leechers.

2) The second kind of leeching out side of exp is the MASS AMOUNT OF PEARL and Peptobismal people. FFXI is all about gear. Why would you level a job and not gear it if you are going to actually use it? Gear swaps DO MATTER. Emp gear is CAKE to get. Most of is can be soloed on several jobs but there is never really a reason to because other people are always lookn for the other seals cause everyone has every job now. What is even more laughable is the people who get Emps for jobs that they are still using Pearl on. Why go after the harder stuff first? I would agree that the person who created this thread through her own admition is a leech when it comes to not exp parties with the gear and stuff she/he (it is a mithra after all) chooses. Because so many people level jobs like this now it is now policy within my group that if we need a few extra hands for procs we check gear before we set out. You can not kill ADL or Botulos Rex with an Askar SAM or a a teal BLM.

So to wrap up. Leeching is neither good nor bad in exp parties because it has become a necessity in the game. Real parties no longer exist on a frequent enough basis to be a viable option. Leeching end game by being gimp and not realizing you are wrong when you say gear swaps only take up inventory is BAD.

[Krashport]

Thread topic: Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

Play Final Fantasy XI how you want to play and enjoy yourself, After all it's just a game, There is no wrong or right way to play "any" Game, I will say this though.. there is always ways to become better at games if one so chooses if not that's fine to, To each their own it's your time and money. The cool part is that in time you'll become better anyways. Does this effect me or should it effect anyone else? No; Why? Cause I choose to be there.

QQ (Crying) on the forums about how others play a game. Most people are laughing and its surely not with you. Seems "these" kinda of people (You know who you are) been playing Final Fantasy XI a bit hard... mostly anything within this game can be solo/duo/trio. Just enjoy yourself it's your time and money as well and if you can't go play an offline game or go grab a coda, Cause this game will go on without you trust me. People choose to join parties for chatting/leeching/KI holding/keys/melee/healing/chillin/smokin/meet others/drinkin/nukin/skillups/support/TE/f@ck!n~the list goes on...

[Rezeak]

Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

Neither

Honestly i play with a group of friends and plenty of times one of us has made and the rest of us have leeched who cares if pple have an issue with that they can drop party the thing is most pple are to lazy to make there own none leech partys so w/e leeching is easy.

Honestly exp is boring anyway it's just bad game design that makes me leech if there was more to it i'd enjoy it.

ps love joining a NM trail hunting group going to bed and having 4/4 done ^^.

[Asymptotic]

trail

Trial of the Magians

[Collavoce]

What I've noticed the most recently is that there is a big divide between the people who like taking their time and going through the whole process and people who want to do endgame ASAP. I think SE should really take a good look at the Everquest model and look into making servers with different functionalities/rules.

I would definitely sign up for a more oldschool server, since it would be easier to start at the same level as a community. Based on how popular the new and progression servers are on EQ, I think FFXI would benefit greatly.

[hiko]

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

so did I. My sam was 75, close to full merit when ToAU was released, finished cop before any nerf.also killed DL @75 without relic (before 2handed weapon buff).

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed.

I did. but I enjoyed so much the journey that i got my 2nd 75 in campain when you could get XP from AFKing fortification and didnt lvl any other job over sub lvl the (boring) old way. FFXI XP system fail!

Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

No I just do what I enjoy doing. Bashing monster for hours for half a lvl is not something I enjoy!
I was still doing dyna after my jobs was 5/5, limbus while I couldn't equip homam nor nashira
How can you call me a "sad player hunting for endless gear"

[Shadowsong]

What I've noticed the most recently is that there is a big divide between the people who like taking their time and going through the whole process and people who want to do endgame ASAP.

This is true, but only one of the two paths is encouraged by SE. If people like taking their time, maybe they should play a newer MMO that is just starting out (ie much slower)

[Loshiniloi]

In terms of leaching I can say is that it will get you higher in the levels yes. But you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes down to skills on the battlefield. High levels don't count for jack squat when can't land a hit on a monster. If people plan to leach a job just put certain "spots" along the line so you can stop and skill up. When I Abyssea my BLU from 45 to 60, I stopped at 60 so I could skill up my Blue Magic, sword was already high because I had leveled PLD. Just put stop points on a job so you can skill up and learn how the job works. Flying from 45 or so to 99 and saying "I know what I'm doing on this job" and actually KNOWING what to do are two separate things.

[Arcon]

Just put stop points on a job so you can skill up and learn how the job works.

Why stop points? Why not get all the leveling done at once and then learn how the job works? There's more opportunities to learn about the job at higher levels than lower, unless you actually do content at 80~90, like try to solo sea or sky or things like that. Apart from that it's best to shoot for the top and then devote time and patience to the job.