Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

[Rosina]

Figure its time for a friendly debate about this, since "Leeching" is working its way into end game.
All i ask is keep your opinions clean of insults.

As most know I dislike leeching. Now this is the art of leeching, I do not hate the players who leech. I find that it is rude to leech because your not contributing in earning the exp, or items you obtain. Your lack of effort makes other work harder then they might want to on a video game they use for relaxation. In the early days of ffxi you got kicked, insulted, had insulting shouts made about you for leeching. Heck go away for 5 min longer then stated you would get people insulting you left and right.

In my personal experience, both past and present, leeching is bad. I seen alliences go from insane exp rates to trickling exp because 30-50% of the party stop fighting/contributing. It does suck joining an aby pt and due to leeching mages.. get no TE. What i'm looking for is proof of leeching being good? How it is helping ffxi?

[Arcon]

Again, you're talking about an issue that doesn't really exist. It's been a long time since I've seen anyone leech in a Dom Ops party, or any regular EXP party, and the people who do are usually promtply kicked.

What people say when they mean "leeching" is paying for a FC, or hold KI or keywhore. All of those things aren't actually leeching, because you are contributing in some way. It isn't "free EXP", you have to do something for the people who are fighting. That is what almost everyone does and it's the currently accepted standard for leveling your jobs in the endgame scene. Simply being afk during a regular party will just result in a kick. No one is arguing that that kind of leeching is bad. If you expect someone to reply to that you're wasting your time.

[Draylo]

Martello in Altepa, go!

[Shadowsong]

Your lack of effort makes other work harder then they might want to on a video game they use for relaxation. In the early days of ffxi you got kicked, insulted, had insulting shouts made about you for leeching. Heck go away for 5 min longer then stated you would get people insulting you left and right.

In my personal experience, both past and present, leeching is bad. I seen alliences go from insane exp rates to trickling exp because 30-50% of the party stop fighting/contributing. It does suck joining an aby pt and due to leeching mages.. get no TE. What i'm looking for is proof of leeching being good? How it is helping ffxi?

The main problem I see you have with the new system is you still consider EXPing as content. Myself, my friends, my linkshell, and people I've talked to all hate EXPing. Exping is the obstacle between you and fun, it's not the fun itself. If i can help someone get a job passed the uselessness, and maybe in the future they can do the same with me, all the power to us. Anything I can do to help others get to 99 and therefore useful, I will.
Once you realize we do not find EXPing fun, you will realize why we wish to get through it as soon as possible, and dont mind helping others do the same.

TL;DR- If people found leeching to be rude, no one would let people do it. They do, so who cares?

edit: I know you are going to bring up "people not learning their jobs" so heres my retort to that: Not a single aspect of this game takes longer than 20 minutes to become a pro at. Not a single thing. An infant could play this game

[Sagagemini]

The main problem I see you have with the new system is you still consider EXPing as content. Myself, my friends, my linkshell, and people I've talked to all hate EXPing. Exping is the obstacle between you and fun, it's not the fun itself. If i can help someone get a job passed the uselessness, and maybe in the future they can do the same with me, all the power to us. Anything I can do to help others get to 99 and therefore useful, I will.
Once you realize we do not find EXPing fun, you will realize why we wish to get through it as soon as possible, and dont mind helping others do the same.

TL;DR- If people found leeching to be rude, no one would let people do it. They do, so who cares?

edit: I know you are going to bring up "people not learning their jobs" so heres my retort to that: Not a single aspect of this game takes longer than 20 minutes to become a pro at. Not a single thing. An infant could play this game

You hate expying because you and those who liked you are not RPGers, just gear whore collectors, playing a barbie game with many dresses.

[Arcon]

You hate expying because you and those who liked you are not RPGers, just gear whore collectors, playing a barbie game with many dresses.

You say that as if you even knew what RPG means. I don't care for gear and I absolutely hate EXPing too. The role I assume isn't the one of Arcon the Crabslaughterer or He Who Made Robber Crabs Go Extinct. It's sad if that's what you call an RPG, and not just because it's wrong but mostly because your imagination seems to be limited to something that low.

Real skill isn't gained through EXP and it never was. Real skill is from defeating high tier notorious monsters or completing high ranking missions. Content that requires actual skill, not a high number. And no matter how many crabs you kill you will never attain that and you will never expand your character that way. You'll just be the same noob at a higher level. Exactly the same as everything you accuse leechers of being.

[Sagagemini]

You say that as if you even knew what RPG means. I don't care for gear and I absolutely hate EXPing too. The role I assume isn't the one of Arcon the Crabslaughterer or He Who Made Robber Crabs Go Extinct. It's sad if that's what you call an RPG, and not just because it's wrong but mostly because your imagination seems to be limited to something that low.

Real skill isn't gained through EXP and it never was. Real skill is from defeating high tier notorious monsters or completing high ranking missions. Content that requires actual skill, not a high number. And no matter how many crabs you kill you will never attain that and you will never expand your character that way. You'll just be the same noob at a higher level. Exactly the same as everything you accuse leechers of being.

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse. You talk about skill, go solo Genbu (when nobody ever thought it was possible to solo a god) at 75 like Avesta did or soloing ODS, not brewing stuff for 9999hp and 999stats. You are not skilled, you're pathethic for thinking you're great with super powered Abyssea stuff.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.


Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

[detlef]

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse. You talk about skill, go solo Genbu (when nobody ever thought it was possible to solo a god) at 75 like Avesta did or soloing ODS, not brewing stuff for 9999hp and 999stats. You are not skilled, you're pathethic for thinking you're great with super powered Abyssea stuff.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I loved the journey. The first time. I didn't care for the journey as much each subsequent time. After doing it enough times I decided that the destination was more important. Can you imagine taking jobs to 99 at 4k xp per hour? Seriously? C'mon now.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

Yes those are lovely accomplishments. I did those same things twice. That doesn't seem to have anything to do with leeching though. I thought we were talking about leeching.

[Arcon]

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse.

You just don't get it. We're saying the same thing, only that you think the journey is slaughtering a shitload of crabs. The journey begins at endgame. Everyone entering endgame is a noob at first. You're confusing experience points with actual experience. You think getting experience points somehow makes you stronger or better. It doesn't. All it does is give you a higher level. You're still a noob, no matter how many crabs you kill. The real experience comes with the things you just stated. Soloing Genbu or ODS or even doing them in a group. Doing Dynamis, employing different strategies, sleep kiting, timed nuking, terrain kiting fast enemies, using the correct gear for each situation, all of these things is what makes your journey and what will, eventually, make you a good player.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

Would you please stop assuming shit about me? You don't know me. I did all of these things you feel so proud of. I also did slow ass EXP, and I didn't feel stronger or better for getting it. The first time I entered Dynamis I was still a noob and didn't know jack shit. I finished all missions at 75, including WotG as soon as they were released with the level cap increase. I know about "RUN FER YER LIFEZ GOBLIN OTW TO SELBINA ZONE" shouts, and it was even fun the first two or three times. After that it got annoying. There was no skill, no variety, nothing involved that I would call entertainment or content of value. It was just an endless grind. And that is not what RPG are about, despite what you may think.

Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

I thought it was well established that I'm one of the Abyssea-haters on this forum, which seems to annoy people a lot. I hate brews and Atma and overbuffed content. I hate temp item spam and I hate mobs designed around that. I loved a lot of old content. I did Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar regularly, I led several sky and sea events and I had an amazing time doing it. I learned a lot during that time and that's why I consider that the real journey. As much as I hate hippie sayings, "every end of a journey is the beginning of a new one" is actually true in almost every way, especially in this case. If you don't see it then I'd say it's your vision of an RPG that's skewed, not mine.

[hiko]

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

so did I. My sam was 75, close to full merit when ToAU was released, finished cop before any nerf.also killed DL @75 without relic (before 2handed weapon buff).

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed.

I did. but I enjoyed so much the journey that i got my 2nd 75 in campain when you could get XP from AFKing fortification and didnt lvl any other job over sub lvl the (boring) old way. FFXI XP system fail!

Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

No I just do what I enjoy doing. Bashing monster for hours for half a lvl is not something I enjoy!
I was still doing dyna after my jobs was 5/5, limbus while I couldn't equip homam nor nashira
How can you call me a "sad player hunting for endless gear"