Leeching in video games. Good or bad?

[Sagagemini]

You say that as if you even knew what RPG means. I don't care for gear and I absolutely hate EXPing too. The role I assume isn't the one of Arcon the Crabslaughterer or He Who Made Robber Crabs Go Extinct. It's sad if that's what you call an RPG, and not just because it's wrong but mostly because your imagination seems to be limited to something that low.

Real skill isn't gained through EXP and it never was. Real skill is from defeating high tier notorious monsters or completing high ranking missions. Content that requires actual skill, not a high number. And no matter how many crabs you kill you will never attain that and you will never expand your character that way. You'll just be the same noob at a higher level. Exactly the same as everything you accuse leechers of being.

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse. You talk about skill, go solo Genbu (when nobody ever thought it was possible to solo a god) at 75 like Avesta did or soloing ODS, not brewing stuff for 9999hp and 999stats. You are not skilled, you're pathethic for thinking you're great with super powered Abyssea stuff.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.


Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

[detlef]

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse. You talk about skill, go solo Genbu (when nobody ever thought it was possible to solo a god) at 75 like Avesta did or soloing ODS, not brewing stuff for 9999hp and 999stats. You are not skilled, you're pathethic for thinking you're great with super powered Abyssea stuff.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I loved the journey. The first time. I didn't care for the journey as much each subsequent time. After doing it enough times I decided that the destination was more important. Can you imagine taking jobs to 99 at 4k xp per hour? Seriously? C'mon now.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

Yes those are lovely accomplishments. I did those same things twice. That doesn't seem to have anything to do with leeching though. I thought we were talking about leeching.

[Eri]

I loved the journey. The first time. I didn't care for the journey as much each subsequent time. After doing it enough times I decided that the destination was more important. Can you imagine taking jobs to 99 at 4k xp per hour? Seriously? C'mon now.

Frist off Abyssea at Lvl 30 and book Partys inclueding a Hoghlevel Character are Leeching in my Book.

Secondary i dont mind the new Additions to Exp as long as they are not abused.

Most importantly tho you mention that the journey to 99 was fun to you, for the first time.
There are newer Players thu that may just take the way for the first time.

If there are no opportunitys for them to experince the Journey?
Because older players burn low and midlevel, so you see its up to ppl to give newer players this chance.

The Mentality of... ' I did it once, not doing it again' is the problem. And you cant justfy it. It's just not right to steal others fun.

[Bled]

Frist off Abyssea at Lvl 30 and book Partys inclueding a Hoghlevel Character are Leeching in my Book.

Secondary i dont mind the new Additions to Exp as long as they are not abused.

Most importantly tho you mention that the journey to 99 was fun to you, for the first time.
There are newer Players thu that may just take the way for the first time.

If there are no opportunitys for them to experince the Journey?
Because older players burn low and midlevel, so you see its up to ppl to give newer players this chance.

The Mentality of... ' I did it once, not doing it again' is the problem. And you cant justfy it. It's just not right to steal others fun.

Final Fantasy 11 2003 (when i started playing) =/= Final Fantasy 11 2012

Final Fantasy 11 was once a lively world with a pretty high population on servers and a good flow of vets and new players. Now Final Fantasy 11 has a much lower population and needs to compete with AAA MMO's... the game had to evolve. I played back before the end of CoP and enjoyed every second of the journey and wouldn't trade that for anything, however i would be dense to think i could have the same EXACT journey in such an old game. When a MMO becomes outdated and depopulated development shifts to bringing the small community closer, which is most easily done by bringing everyone into end game as fast as possible.

My only complaint is the dead world, which could be solved by creating new dynamic content in the old world.

Games are meant to be played for enjoyment, people need to make their own "in game" experiences rather then hoping its handed to them. I may not be having the same exact adventure i had in 2003, however i am thoroughly enjoying my new adventure in 2012.

[detlef]

Frist off Abyssea at Lvl 30 and book Partys inclueding a Hoghlevel Character are Leeching in my Book.

Secondary i dont mind the new Additions to Exp as long as they are not abused.

Most importantly tho you mention that the journey to 99 was fun to you, for the first time.
There are newer Players thu that may just take the way for the first time.

If there are no opportunitys for them to experince the Journey?
Because older players burn low and midlevel, so you see its up to ppl to give newer players this chance.

The journey I was referring to was doing things for the first time. Things like doing missions for the story and fighting powerful monsters. Getting to Jeuno the first time. Things like that. As for leveling, I was relieved when I hit 75 and I ended up not leveling another job for many years. I hated meriting. The actual leveling experience was not precious to me.

The Mentality of... ' I did it once, not doing it again' is the problem. And you cant justfy it. It's just not right to steal others fun.

Please explain how this mentality is a problem at all. Are we complaining about new players being robbed of this experience of whacking crabs for hours on end for a fraction of a level? Fighting over colibri camps at 75? Subjecting them to terrible XP (<2k an hour at low levels, <4k an hour at higher levels) is a sure way to make them quit. Are you saying you want them to suffer in order to earn their high level? What do you have against new players? In this day and age do you think it's okay for someone to require 11 hours per level at 75? I don't think so.

[Eri]

Please explain how this mentality is a problem at all. Are we complaining about new players being robbed of this experience of whacking crabs for hours on end for a fraction of a level? Fighting over colibri camps at 75? Subjecting them to terrible XP (<2k an hour at low levels, <4k an hour at higher levels) is a sure way to make them quit. Are you saying you want them to suffer in order to earn their high level? What do you have against new players? In this day and age do you think it's okay for someone to require 11 hours per level at 75? I don't think so.

Because it is actually fun/a good feeling if you waited to get it, worked towards it. It can be a Level it can be a Piece of Gear. It can be a hard mission you finshed.

Now if you get everything handed to you.... how is that fun...

The newer Players will have what they wanted in a short time. And just leave.

No feeling of accomplishment if it wasnt hard work.

[Kimble]

Your idea of fun/good feeling, isn't the same as everyones, sorry.

[Arcon]

If you don't like leveling then your just another The Sims player. Leveling exists in RPG since Dungeons & Dragons, something that you prob never heard of, and if you did you are just plain stupid. Newfags like you dont know whats the journey about, adventures of getting a teleport-altep with a bunch of 40's. You want max level and then the game begins for you, the sort of mentality we can only expect from a WoW player or worse.

You just don't get it. We're saying the same thing, only that you think the journey is slaughtering a shitload of crabs. The journey begins at endgame. Everyone entering endgame is a noob at first. You're confusing experience points with actual experience. You think getting experience points somehow makes you stronger or better. It doesn't. All it does is give you a higher level. You're still a noob, no matter how many crabs you kill. The real experience comes with the things you just stated. Soloing Genbu or ODS or even doing them in a group. Doing Dynamis, employing different strategies, sleep kiting, timed nuking, terrain kiting fast enemies, using the correct gear for each situation, all of these things is what makes your journey and what will, eventually, make you a good player.

You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed. Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.

I got 75 when the endgame area for exp was boyada tree. I finished ZM, COP and TOUA when cap was 75 and COP wasn't nerfed, no Exp band, no Fields of Valor, no Colibri to reach 75. You don't know crap about adventures, about train mobs in Kazham, about killing Dynamis Lord at 75 without relics.

Would you please stop assuming shit about me? You don't know me. I did all of these things you feel so proud of. I also did slow ass EXP, and I didn't feel stronger or better for getting it. The first time I entered Dynamis I was still a noob and didn't know jack shit. I finished all missions at 75, including WotG as soon as they were released with the level cap increase. I know about "RUN FER YER LIFEZ GOBLIN OTW TO SELBINA ZONE" shouts, and it was even fun the first two or three times. After that it got annoying. There was no skill, no variety, nothing involved that I would call entertainment or content of value. It was just an endless grind. And that is not what RPG are about, despite what you may think.

Sad to have ppl like you in a MMO RPG. Now go back bragging about your Notorious Monsters defeated from Abyssea. Might make you feel proud of yourself in the end of the day.

I thought it was well established that I'm one of the Abyssea-haters on this forum, which seems to annoy people a lot. I hate brews and Atma and overbuffed content. I hate temp item spam and I hate mobs designed around that. I loved a lot of old content. I did Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar regularly, I led several sky and sea events and I had an amazing time doing it. I learned a lot during that time and that's why I consider that the real journey. As much as I hate hippie sayings, "every end of a journey is the beginning of a new one" is actually true in almost every way, especially in this case. If you don't see it then I'd say it's your vision of an RPG that's skewed, not mine.

[Dragoy]

I don't think anyone is saying that the old yield of Experience/Limit Points of monsters was a good thing, in its own.

The old ways did bring people closer, though, and made the experience of the journey far more interesting. Again, not saying it should take ages; this was about leeching after all, and how this game is not just about the 'end-game' to everyone.
It is to some, but not to everyone. We are all different which makes it fun, and worthwhile in the long run. ^^;

So as an argument 'the end-game is where it starts' works as well as saying you like briefs so you don't understand why someone else wouldn't use them, methinks.

[Doombringer]

i don't mind leeching so much as i mind worthless players who THINK they aren't leeching just because they're not afk.

fun story, a while back a friend levels thf. now he needs merits for thf. so he happens to join an alliance while all of us are on.. so we figure why not, lets go help him cap those off. he brings his masamune sam, another friend brings his almace blu, another friend brings his kannagi nin, and i bring my not-ukon war (i am such the black sheep <.< i have an almace and my war has everything a DD could want EXCEPT a ukon but now that i tell this story i feel like the weakest link)

all 4 of us have the gear and atmas you would hope one would have at lvl 99. not ideal sets, but DRAMATICALLY above average. (except for my not-ukon )

we also bring a lvl 99 whm mule. the idea is to park him at the edge of the mobs, just out of agro range, and if we eventually get whittled down we can run over to him and get healed up. (any one of us can EASILY solo an xp mob.. several in a row.... but you take dmg little by little..)

so a lil' ways in... a lvl 70 pup starts getting all uppity about the whm "leeching".. since the whm just stands there and doesn't follow the pup around PLing him...

it was obvious my friends and i were carrying the alliance. any one of us was already out-doing EVERY one of them.... and i wouldn't have minded that.. wouldn't have even said anything... if one hadn't felt the need to accuse our mule of leeching... but he did..

so i fucking said it: "he CAN'T leech because he's here with that guy, that guy, that guy, and this guy." which should have been the end of it... but it wasn't... so: "He IS healing people, he's just not following YOUR gimp ass around because you take 15 minutes to kill a mob and would have been monopolizing his time! protip: if you can't even solo ONE aby xp mob, stop TRYING to solo mobs!?! pick a competent player and follow them around. as is you'd be more helpful doing NOTHING! you're just an mp sponge. you are of NEGATIVE use here guy."


yah.. was he leeching? he wasn't afk.. but he certainly was sucking. i'd have rather had a non-paying afk lvl 30 than him. in the long run he didn't REALLY affect us much, we let him die rather than sponge mp.. but he certainly ruined my mellow....