SMN adjustments....seriously?

[Fyreus]

More damage than an Almace RDM? I'm not convinced....

I would imagine that person might go down rather quickly on stuff that mattered xD

*page 11~

What some people also forget about smn's use is that it's valuable in a melee group (I HATE when people throw my smn in a magic group.. FFS ask me first) as there are mobs you don't want to get hit when your pants.. or fanatics falls. In my vwnm cycles i keep armor/ward/haste/enfire/attack+/BP and i toss ifrit in there for that 24% or so extra double attack.

Is it useless? No. Not really. He sits there minding his own business and i toss out heals here and there and 5 other guys get another hit in here and there and probably TP more. You'd need rdm/sch + cor/brd to replace me tbh :/ Another use is in a magic attack party where i'm able to keep up buffs/stats/absorb stats/refresh and so on.

The biggest problem with smn if anything is that some buffs are outdated and people don't understand that summoner is a buffer that can damage so they toss them in a pt with a rdm/whm/brd/blm/???/you and wonder why you are just BPing and sitting on your hands. There's nothing to do ffs. I think we should educate people :/

[Neisan_Quetz]

Favors need to be revamped, the Bloodpact system needs to be seriously redone. For a support job that can deal damage, I've found Smn to be fairly ineffectual in VW (in terms of dealing damage/supporting a melee party; a majority of its buffs alone are not enough, the Ward system severely limits both how many can be used- if you buff, you can't use main job healing etc. This is even worse than Sch's Art System). Other than unique procs in almost every group I've been in Smn is not effective enough to warrant its place outside of those procs/using EA when temps are down. This can probably be attributed to the fact temps refresh so often however; if they did not I could see Smn seeing more use in VW outside of bringing an obligatory 1 for procs.

Pre nerf Cor and Brd vastly outstrip Smn buffs in effectiveness for a melee party and Cor is a much better damage dealer. Hateless damage would be a nice niche, but other than WoE it isn't a called for strategy anymore.

I understand you say Smn isn't "useless" in the sense "Smn is unable to do anything in these situations", which I do agree, however I find it to be ineffectual, which for me is just as bad and why I believe Smn deserves more attention. Being in a better situation than pup/bst/drg is still not a good position to be in in my eyes, in just means all 4 badly need attention and Smn is just barely ahead of 3 of them.

[Economizer]

I've found Smn to be fairly ineffectual in VW

Funny story - and this is just a story not me actually arguing that SMN is one thing or another - the other day I was doing Voidwatch clears with a PUG and one of the mobs was giving the group a particularly hard time (mostly because the PUG was down a party and didn't want to shout for people who would want all of the clears on that tier when we were almost done). They decided to take a bunch of BST and SMN and throw pets at the mob until it died. Amazingly it worked (and there were so many Garuda's out that I thought I was in WoE).

[Fyreus]

Favors need to be revamped, the Bloodpact system needs to be seriously redone. For a support job that can deal damage, I've found Smn to be fairly ineffectual in VW (in terms of dealing damage/supporting a melee party; a majority of its buffs alone are not enough, the Ward system severely limits both how many can be used- if you buff, you can't use main job healing etc. This is even worse than Sch's Art System). Other than unique procs in almost every group I've been in Smn is not effective enough to warrant its place outside of those procs/using EA when temps are down. This can probably be attributed to the fact temps refresh so often however; if they did not I could see Smn seeing more use in VW outside of bringing an obligatory 1 for procs.

Pre nerf Cor and Brd vastly outstrip Smn buffs in effectiveness for a melee party and Cor is a much better damage dealer. Hateless damage would be a nice niche, but other than WoE it isn't a called for strategy anymore.

I understand you say Smn isn't "useless" in the sense "Smn is unable to do anything in these situations", which I do agree, however I find it to be ineffectual, which for me is just as bad and why I believe Smn deserves more attention. Being in a better situation than pup/bst/drg is still not a good position to be in in my eyes, in just means all 4 badly need attention and Smn is just barely ahead of 3 of them.

The first time i take smn to uptala i found my group to have been alive much longer than the other groups.. why? because smn can chain defensive buffs left and right and it matters in a situation when we're waiting on a blu proc or someone is unable to gain tp. I'm going to side with experience on this matter.

[Neisan_Quetz]

My experience with Uptala is he dies in ~3-5 minutes in a decent group.

[Fyreus]

Yep, most are in that range or less... then there's that 1min cool down on blu spells and waiting for hints but we all take big damage.

[Dallas]

Poor Neisan, let me throw you a clue. SMN works for me. What possible gain could there be trying to learn how to play like someone who has failed at the job? Do I want to be as miserable as you? I've been enjoying the job since 2006. Sucks to not be me, but fortunately, I am me.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If the best you can do is to retort with how Smn is good enough for you, then there's no point to responding to you any further. You're satisfied with how the job is, and nothing anyone else says is going to change that because you're too busy convincing yourself everything is sunshine and rainbows with Smn.

[Annalise]

If the best you can do is to retort with how Smn is good enough for you, then there's no point to responding to you any further. You're satisfied with how the job is, and nothing anyone else says is going to change that because you're too busy convincing yourself everything is sunshine and rainbows with Smn.

I love summoner. I have found some good uses with summoner over the years (e.g. SMN is good for -easy- low man kiting situations, someone kiting and avatar spamming Merit pacts, more useful at 75 than 99). But I agree that the job definitely has its limitations and things that need to be reworked. And I think anyone on SMN who thinks they are competing with someone playing the bandwagon jobs well is likely overestimating what they are doing. Especially in the days of 'zerging the crap out of things', SMN is left incredibly far behind due to the bloodpact timer. SMN can throw out an alexander, maybe one bloodpact, and sit back...

[Karbuncle]

Someone mentioned earlier not seeing any Shattersoul numbers, Well, I got 4/5 Shattersoul merits, Went out on SMN, and gathered a few hits:



A few things to note:

1) I'm only 4/5 Merits
2) Using a Gerra's Staff (I.E Could be much better with Hverg)
3) My WS Gear Isn't the best.

This WS has some potential, Peaking 2,500 Even being just 4/5 and Mediocre Weapon/Gear for it. I know the mobs I'm fighting are rather weak, They weren't meant as anything other than a demonstration

Edit; Shortly after posting, I hit 2725 On a Bat. This WS is fun.