SMN adjustments....seriously?

[Babekeke]

Edit: I Should mention, SMN Can obtain 25% Haste:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/206905
So with Garuda and /SAM, they're one of the few jobs than can get a solo 50% Haste. Which is a fun thought for when you solo

This is quite interesting. I have some suggestions though (mainly removing a couple of harder-to-get items, and also bringing it down to 8-hit instead of 9-hit):

Items that not everyone will be able to get hold of (not counting VW items: they're 'easy' to get, minus the luck factor);
Hvergelmir and Ninurta's Sash.
Replace these with Celeritas Pole and Goading Belt. Now get rid of Hasty Pinion. That -5STP is worse than the 1% haste that you get from it (though not in your setup, as you need to swap out a few other pieces to get 8-hit). There aren't many other good pieces for ammo slot for TPing, so maybe go for a MAB one for the WS. For the Neck piece, you could go for Ancient Torque perhaps, but then you would need to WS in 3 STP. Maintaining this neck would allow you to WS in full MAB.

Anyway I seem to be de-railing this thread, sorry about that.

[Karbuncle]

This is quite interesting. I have some suggestions though (mainly removing a couple of harder-to-get items, and also bringing it down to 8-hit instead of 9-hit):

Items that not everyone will be able to get hold of (not counting VW items: they're 'easy' to get, minus the luck factor);
Hvergelmir and Ninurta's Sash.
Replace these with Celeritas Pole and Goading Belt. Now get rid of Hasty Pinion. That -5STP is worse than the 1% haste that you get from it (though not in your setup, as you need to swap out a few other pieces to get 8-hit). There aren't many other good pieces for ammo slot for TPing, so maybe go for a MAB one for the WS. For the Neck piece, you could go for Ancient Torque perhaps, but then you would need to WS in 3 STP. Maintaining this neck would allow you to WS in full MAB.

Anyway I seem to be de-railing this thread, sorry about that.

Wasn't going strongly for a efficiency in that moment :P I just threw together what gear i knew SMN Could wear that was melee. I missed the Neck.

That said, You can change ammo without losing TP, so i guess something like... White Tathlum for TP. would be good (Store TP +2).

[Dallas]

No, not saying you shouldn't do it, only that you (in general) can't think of it as something unique. Outside of the events/scenarios listed I have a hard time justifying bringing a Smn, that is what I mean to say. It's not as in a bad position as say pup/drg/bst, but it still requires more work on the BP system before I can see Smn being a viable job for more events/situations.

You bring SMN because you like the job and aren't one of those idiots that half-assess it. Yes, everyone and their dog knows that you can find 4 people to replace everything a SMN offers. More buffs than WHM, more damage than RDM, more healing than BRD, and more damage types than BLM. Less hate than all 4.

[Dallas]

So that I don't have to explain it later...

I've quickly established that SMN is not the worst mage at anything by comparing them to a job that is also not the worst at that category. Out of five jobs, SMN is no worse than 3rd in every category. I listed two that SMN is best.

[Babekeke]

More damage than an Almace RDM? I'm not convinced....

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't think he could outdamage nuking Rdm.

I also can't remember the last time people actually cared about hate (ignoring WoE)... Or Brd Healing, are you serious? I mean, aside from both capping cure potency, Smn's advantage is wasting wards on healing, which is going to cut into 'more buffs than a whm' without a really effective shell, worse regens /phalanx than a Rdm (not that people rely on them much; if you bring up favor, you've already lost your more damage argument), and once again have to use wards for native enfeebles, anything else is half strength aside from Dia line which is same tier as whm.

EDIT: Wait wait wait, are you trying to compare Smn's damage/support/healing to the other mages/support, neglect Sch/Blu/Dnc/Cor, and then call yourself 3rd? I don't even... In terms of magical damage, I've yet to see Smn do more damage than Wildfire Cor. In terms of physical, behind pretty much all of them bar Blm. Healing is no better than 4th, and will probably drop to 5th after update.

[Karbuncle]

I don't think he could outdamage nuking Rdm.

A Melee RDM could out-DD a nuking RDM >_>. or was that the point you were trying to make? Like saying "He couldn't out-DD a nuking RDM, let alone an actual Almace RDM". type deal?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Depends what you're fighting, since obviously on harder targets melee damage drops off. Neither situation favors Smn imo until you're talking about hateless damage, which... isn't an issue in many events.

[Karbuncle]

Depends what you're fighting, since obviously on harder targets melee damage drops off. Neither situation favors Smn imo until you're talking about hateless damage, which... isn't an issue in many events.

IDK, With the Introduction of Shattersoul, I don't think SMN DD will fall so far behind RDM in nuking or what have you. Its a pretty good WS. Especially with a Hverg, Imagine so in Voidwatch, Dusty Wings rain from the sky, Can keep up 300%TP Aftermath and Stalwarts/etc for Shattersoul.

SMN suffers from lack of Attack above all else, Even in the TP Set above they're far behind other DD in terms of Attack/Acc. Voidwatch makes up for that with Stalwarts, Abyssea obviously with Atma, but on content outside of that... yah.

Still, Voidwatch is the only place you'd really bring a SMN realistically, because of procs. (outside of PD).

This topic makes me head spins because of all the uncertainty, I should get a 99 Hverg just to Melee in Voidwatch and see if i can piss people off for Pars data >_>

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's really good for a staff WS, but... that doesn't really make it that good. It's still used on the worst melee job in the game next to Blm, and has a pretty bad mod for a physical WS. Smn is as you said trailing in attack/DA/etc., Even for VW I wouldn't expect much.

And yes it still can only work in either abyss and maybe VW, though both would be hard pressed to be meleeing in VW, and mp isn't an issue in either.