[dev1080] Thief - Assassin's Charge/feint proposed Adjustments

[Kysaiana]

For some reason I though these changes were live as of the Feb. 14 update but they're not even on the test server yet. What I get for skimming over the job changes. Anyway, I'll definitely be lowering Assassin's Charge to 1/5 when this happens, since I was able to land all 3 hits pretty consistently even with flash on last night... As far as feint goes, I guess I'll have to see the TH rate on it and either leave it at 4/5 or up it to 5/5.

[Delvish]

Just for arguements sake, I will use Assassin's Charge in TP mode when I'm /dnc in an oshi-I-need-tp moment. It isn't much, but usually will at least push me within an attack phase of Waltz.

As for the updates themselves, I think the TH bonus to Feint is rather awesome. Means we can alternate Feint and Bully (more or less) and really see some TH progression. That being said, it still all depends on the TH cap and over-all usefulness. From the looks of it, VW and Legion are the endgame events of 99, so THWhore will still not have a use beyond Aby-farm, old school events, and Nyzul uncharted.

Long story short. Assassin's Charge 1/5, Aura Steal 4/5, Feint 5/5, then hang up the bonnet for my other jobs.

[Babekeke]

Just for arguements sake, I will use Assassin's Charge in TP mode when I'm /dnc in an oshi-I-need-tp moment. It isn't much, but usually will at least push me within an attack phase of Waltz.

Are you missing a lot of Triple Attack gear? With merits you're at 11%. Raider's Bonnet +2 3%, Epona's Ring 3%, Triplus Dagger 3%. This is where I am right now with TA, 20% that's 1 every 5 swings (on average) outside of abyssea. With Raider's Earring and Assassin's Pouliaines on my wishlist I'll be at 24% which is almost once every 4 swings. On top of that, there is 2% double Attack on Atheling, 2% on Twilight belt, 3% on Epona's, which equates to 6.4% (at 20% TA - 6.04% at 24%) after the triple attack has missed it's chance to proc for a total of 26% chance of a multi-hit with my gear, and 30% chance if you have the other 2 pieces.

Given the 2 second delay upon using a JA, you'd get more TP from letting yourself auto-attack than you would from hitting AC unless you are hitting it while you are not engaged, to build that initial TP.

TBH if you're fighting something that you really need the extra TP on, you're probably riding the waltz timer anyway, so you might as well just save AC for your WS and get it killed faster.

[Laphine]

why use raider's earring? Brutal is better for any achievable TA rate. Also, the super TA rate that would be necessary for raiders to win will also make it a lousy increase to dps, and i bet a simple attack earring would beat it then.

[Kysaiana]

Atheling mantel actually has 3% double attack rate, and I wouldn't use raider's over brutal earring. The only time I use AC on a melee swing is if I'm /dnc and low on HP and want to be sure I get a triple attack so I can heal myself.

[Karbuncle]

Don't forget Twilight Belt's 2%, and if you're a good Thief these days you'll be /WAR anyway to most events (bar maybe Dynamis).

So right off the bat with Atheling + Twilight /WAR you got 15% Double Attack. 20% With brutal. I stopped using Triplus Dagger when i got my Flame-knife. So my Triple Attack rate is 20% (Head, Ring, Feet, Natural+merits)

So with a Brutal You're looking at 20 / 20
With Raiders its 15 / 21

Think Brutal Wins.

[Babekeke]

Like I said in the other thread, I got the earring for BLM, so I don't have Suppa. I use brutal/Aesis now, but will swap to raiders/brutal. I did the maths for 3% DA on Atheling, not 2%, just typo'd 2% there, and I always forget about the 5% on brutal for some reason.
With Epona's 3% as well and /war it's 23% DA. Stacked with 24% TA it's a 41% chance to multi-attack, even outside of abyssea.

[Khajit]

Personally, I still feel both changes are...kinda useless. As a Thf I've always hated that SE felt our job's only purpose was to enhance drops so the change to Feint is not one I'm looking forward to. And with Ass. Charge, when you get the Augmented +2 Relic feet, you get +5 Crit Hit rate in addition to the +3 TAtt, +TAtt Damage if you fully merit Assassin's Charge, so you'd still want to fully merit it anyway.

I mean, instead of going 5/5 Feint, 4/5 Aura Steal, 1/5 Ass. Charge I guess I can go 5/5 Ass. Charge, 4/5 Aura Steal and 1/5 Feint. In the end however, it doesn't really change anything. It's not like these changes open us up to having more merit options, it still comes down to juggling merits between the same three categories.

In light of seeing other jobs get lesser used JAs have their recasts dropped or their durations changed, I was kind of hoping Steal/Despoil/Mug would see some adjustments. Personally, I feel the act of actively taking something away from the mob is more in line of what a "Thief" should be as opposed to just being a job that makes things drop more frequently. Instead all Thfs get is the joy of having to rearrange merits. It doesn't really make the job better at anything and instead just reinforces our role as "Treasure Whore", something I'm not too fond of.

Evisceration isnt a ws we stack with SA/TA anymore because exenterator is better and the other ws like rudra/mercy dont crit either so the 5% crit bonus is effectively useless if you were under the impression it actually does something

Just for arguements sake, I will use Assassin's Charge in TP mode when I'm /dnc in an oshi-I-need-tp moment. It isn't much, but usually will at least push me within an attack phase of Waltz.

using A charge for tpgain actually lowers the tp obtained thanks to jadelay so dont do that.

[Aana]

FYI you guys are all behind the times. We assumed for years that SATA+WS worked like solo SATA for acc.

It doesnt.

When SA/TA(with assassin) all hits have 100% acc. Offhand]/Singles/Doubles/Triples/Quads. All 100% acc.

When SA/TA+WS is used, there is no such acc bonus beyond the FIRST hit. The offhand hit and any DA/TA/QA do NOT have guranteed acc. We often stack dex out the wazoo, so acc isnt much of a problem, but if you are diligent watching your TP returns you will see that it isnt the case. This has been a misconception for years because we all just assumed it worked like a melee SA/TA. It doesnt.

The acc bonus isnt 100% useless because we have been 100% wrong on our assumption on acc with SATA+WS and its still (obviously) a commonly held belief.

[Karbuncle]

FYI you guys are all behind the times. We assumed for years that SATA+WS worked like solo SATA for acc.

It doesnt.

When SA/TA(with assassin) all hits have 100% acc. Offhand/Singles/Doubles/Triples/Quads. All 100% acc.

When SA/TA+WS is used, there is no such acc bonus beyond the FIRST hit. The offhand hit and any DA/TA/QA do NOT have guranteed acc. We often stack dex out the wazoo, so acc isnt much of a problem, but if you are diligent watching your TP returns you will see that it isnt the case. This has been a misconception for years because we all just assumed it worked like a melee SA/TA. It doesnt.

The acc bonus isnt 100% useless because we have been 100% wrong on our assumption on acc with SATA+WS and its still (obviously) a commonly held belief.

Not saying i don't believe you....

But can you provide me with these tests and proof please ? With all these new revelations I'm starting to learn to not take things at face value.