New Weaponskills - Not what was expected

**Greatguardian** · 01-07-2012 03:50 PM

It's pretty funny how you can say "SCH should be able to reach 1.0 cRatio" and then "Sub THF for SA WS" in the same breath. Are you for real, or is this just fantasy? You're also looking at WS damage and ignoring both white damage and WS frequency. Are you be caught in a landslide? There's no escape from reality.

Who even kills WS proc mobs to begin with? Why waste time? You're either wasting TP spamming Shadowstitch, or you're potentially killing things before they proc (Unless it somehow takes more than 2 or 3 real WS to kill something?). Neither of these scenarios is very fun. JA proc mobs followed by a SA Mercy is pretty potent, I usually get 400-450 currency in a duo with my Thf friend that way on top of forgotten items. Their price is crashing too, by the way. At least on my server it is. Now that the market is becoming saturated, people are realizing that they were never worth that much to begin with. It's not hard at all to walk away with 30-50 forgottens in a single run.

I'd like to see a Com Rep mention of AF1+2, though. That's news to me. Source prz? And don't link me to an Amaday thread. I mean an actual, concrete Dev response.

I also never said DRK was weak. In fact, I'm one of the first people to call Urteil, Cyjader1, etc retarded when they make huge b'awwwwing threads about how "weak" DRK is and how they should just cut the job into pieces as their last resort.

I will maintain that PUP is pretty bad, though. Relying on a pet's power boost as a boon for Bst is no good, either. Relying on the pet for DD potential is what got these jobs into trouble in the first place. Pet mechanics in FFXI are pretty bad. They can't receive buffs, which means an extreme loss in potential damage when they're balanced for solo situations.

Even if a pet is stronger than am unbuffed master by a factor of 1.2x, a buffed player will be stronger than an unbuffed master by a factor of 5x or more. When you look at these jobs in the context of large groups where support is available, the gap between the master and a competing DD becomes very, very real - and the pet has no way to even start trying to bridge that gap.

For fun, numbers

Fulcrum pole D:92, 150 STR, 10fStr (assuming monster with 110 VIT), 15 fTP and 300% STR WSC with 0.85 Alpha

Base Damage = floor[ (92 + 10 + (150 * 3 * 0.85) ) * 15 ] = 7267

Let's be generous and assume that this SCH is able to hit 0.9 cRatio. This gives an average pDif of 0.8931511.

Base Damage * pDif = 6490 average WS damage.

Looks pretty awesome, right? $5 says you can't construct SCH-equipable TP and WS sets with a set subjob that would allow this theoretical SCH to outparse a Ukon WAR even with this WS.

Edit: PS, the gaps between jobs haven't shrunk that much. The difference is that you don't see it as much. Why? Because gaps in power are always highlighted when you apply exponential and/or multiplicative growth. You see far less of the very real gap in potential strength these days because most things are done lowman without many buffs.

Contrary to what you may want to believe, this has always been the case. In fact, it's why you saw so many people misunderstand just how very big and very real the gaps between jobs were in the past. They would solo, or lowman without proper support, and claim that the difference between C-tier job #1 and A-tier job #2 was minimal. This is true, when you're solo or lowman without buffs. Unfortunately, those are situations that any given community could honestly care less about. Important situations where job selection actually matters are overwhelmingly large-scale content where you will have access to those buffs and the differences between jobs stand out very distinctly.

**Return1** · 01-07-2012 07:18 PM

It's pretty funny how you can say "SCH should be able to reach 1.0 cRatio" and then "Sub THF for SA WS" in the same breath. Are you for real, or is this just fantasy? You're also looking at WS damage and ignoring both white damage and WS frequency. Are you be caught in a landslide? There's no escape from reality.

Even at 1.0 cRatio, SA adds a +1.0, essentially doubling the damage. For bigger, single fights, TP gain wouldn't really matter since 2 super buffed SCH/THFs would be able to pretty much kill just about any single mob in the game in just a few SA WS each. I'm sorry but even with the slower TP gain, Ukko's WAR wouldn't be able to keep up unless the SCH wasn't receiving buffs and the WAR was. You just failed at understanding game mechanics.

Who even kills WS proc mobs to begin with? Why waste time? You're either wasting TP spamming Shadowstitch, or you're potentially killing things before they proc (Unless it somehow takes more than 2 or 3 real WS to kill something?).

The idea is to kill faster so you get more forgotten items. You kill WS proc mobs because you proc a decent number of them as you kill them for bonus currency. The price falls on forgotten items atm, but it bottoms out at a price higher than the cheap currency by a margin large enough to make them more profitable. People need a whole lot of forgotten items now since everyone can cap all jobs in just a few days, and a lot of the +2 is either useful, or has a good augment.

JA proc mobs followed by a SA Mercy is pretty potent, I usually get 400-450 currency in a duo with my Thf friend that way on top of forgotten items.

Calling Bullshit unless you have pocket mules that you don't count in your "Duo" or you haven't played since the AoE WS/Spell nerf.

I'd like to see a Com Rep mention of AF1+2, though. That's news to me. Source prz? And don't link me to an Amaday thread. I mean an actual, concrete Dev response.

Cannot find link but it was when they announced they would be adding way to make Sky drops, Relic, and AF enhanceable so they would be useful, they never explicitly said +2 and didn't know if it would be ToM or Synergy Augments, but then they went on to put out road maps with limbus adjustments. You'd have to be a tool to think they won't add AF trials/upgrades from upgraded limbus, seeing as they've done it for Relic, Announced it for Nyzul, will implement it in salvage, and added a way to enhance sky drops.

I will maintain that PUP is pretty bad, though. Relying on a pet's power boost as a boon for Bst is no good, either. Relying on the pet for DD potential is what got these jobs into trouble in the first place. Pet mechanics in FFXI are pretty bad. They can't receive buffs, which means an extreme loss in potential damage when they're balanced for solo situations.

I'll cover this with the next thing.

PS, the gaps between jobs haven't shrunk that much. The difference is that you don't see it as much. Why? Because gaps in power are always highlighted when you apply exponential and/or multiplicative growth.

Here's the thing. The only Exponential stat in this game is Haste. Now that capping gear haste is a very realistic on any natural melee, there are no "exponential" advantages between say MNK and PUP. The difference in ATK means less and less the higher your attack gets, same with ACC, and with anything else.

I'll put it bluntly. You're full of shit if you think 2012 MNK vs. PUP isn't a miniscule gap compared to 2006 MNK vs. PUP.

As for the pets not getting buffs, they've really bridged the gap on that. The way they did it for BST is by making the pets base retardedly strong in comparison to the old jug pets, and the ability to chose what WS your pet does instead of spamming bubble curtain. I won't go over Superpowers and such, but as it stands, the gap between BST's melee and other job's has shrunk, even more now with ruinator, and the pets have become a lot stronger as well. We're not talking 3-5% you need a parser to see, We're talking about easily double the damage you could have seen from your pet before.

As for your bet, what content are you speaking of? It makes a world of difference depending on what you're aiming for.

PS: SCH can't use fulcrum pole.

**Unleashhell** · 01-07-2012 10:04 PM

SE already mentioned there will be NO AF+2. There is also a post from the mods on here explaining that the dev team felt it was more important to upgrade Nashira and Homam gear then to make AF+2. Gonna see if I can maybe find that post.

**Unleashhell** · 01-07-2012 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Camate

We do not have any concrete plans for artifact armor upgrades. If we were to implement them it would be around the time when we adjust Limbus content. However, we feel that Homam and Nashira adjustments take a higher priority, so we can’t make any promises.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...t-Armor./page2

**Neisan_Quetz** · 01-08-2012 01:35 AM