Proc systems are so annoying. please do away with them forever

[Anewie]

TBH, everyone is sick of proc systems. Please keep them out of the toau revamp.

[Alhanelem]

They're not going to do away with the existing ones but they have already said that they will not be using this system on every new piece of content in the future.

[RAIST]

idk... sort of on the fence about it. Having a list of things you can do to ramp up the drop rate vs. the old 1/100 chance of getting the item drop.....at least you have the option to proc or not and take your chances with the lower drop rates. That is, providing they don't make it a REQUIREMENT that you proc to get the item to drop.

[wish12oz]

idk... sort of on the fence about it. Having a list of things you can do to ramp up the drop rate vs. the old 1/100 chance of getting the item drop.....at least you have the option to proc or not and take your chances with the lower drop rates. That is, providing they don't make it a REQUIREMENT that you proc to get the item to drop.

Or we could get that awesome voidwatch system where if you dont proc, you get nothing, and if you do proc... you still get nothing.

[Nala]

idk... sort of on the fence about it. Having a list of things you can do to ramp up the drop rate vs. the old 1/100 chance of getting the item drop.....at least you have the option to proc or not and take your chances with the lower drop rates. That is, providing they don't make it a REQUIREMENT that you proc to get the item to drop.

even with capped lights you have less then 1% chance to get what you want from VW, even worse that there is no control over who the drops go to so really you have a 1/18 shot of that 1% being in your box, so what chance at lower drop rates are you talking about?

[RAIST]

even with capped lights you have less then 1% chance to get what you want from VW, even worse that there is no control over who the drops go to so really you have a 1/18 shot of that 1% being in your box, so what chance at lower drop rates are you talking about?

It was meant more in the general sense of drop rates, not specifically VW. geesh. Old system vs proc system---you know the history... people camping an NM for days/weeks/months and not getting the drop.

The old system is almost literally like rolling dice--your previous results are not removed from the pool like drawing a card from the deck....rather, the card is put back in the deck and then it gets reshuffled. The proc system can operate in various ways. Using the cards scenario, it could be stacking the deck with more winning cards (say, all face cards instead lf just the one-eyed Jacks), or reducing the size of the deck. With the dice scenario, it could switch to a different die combination (2d6 vs 1d12), directly altering the result with a flat amount (say 1d20 +5), or lowering the threshold for a winning role (instead of 18+, it is now 15+ for a winning roll). There are other possible tweaks, those are just a few ideas off the cuff. So long as the method gives you a better chance at a win (no matter how slight or drastic it may be, it IS an improvement to your chances), it is STILL better than no way of altering it at all. They are still using the same basic theory to find the result, you just get either a wider winning range or a narrower range altogether for the choice drops.

The problem with VW is likely due to either a shoddy result set (the popular items have a ridiculously narrow range for a win), or the adjustment made to the system isn't as strong as it is with Abyssea.

[Nynja]

idk... sort of on the fence about it. Having a list of things you can do to ramp up the drop rate vs. the old 1/100 chance of getting the item drop.....at least you have the option to proc or not and take your chances with the lower drop rates. That is, providing they don't make it a REQUIREMENT that you proc to get the item to drop.

Id rather know getting proc gives me a 50% chance instead of landing 30 procs on any VW NM, capping blue/red, and still having a sub-1% drop rate on the rare items.

I did like the way they did the proc system in dynamis. It was broad enough (WS, magic, JA) that with a group of friends everybody could come as the job they wanted and chances are one of them could cover the right trigger.

Untill you realize the procrate of MA/WS is so absurdly low, everyone comes /dnc and just targets JA mobs.

[Koren]

Are you suggesting a new system in place or saying you'd prefer going back to low droprates we can do nothing about except throw the dice over and over? Granted VW appears to be the second choice anyway, but both Abyssea and Dynamis proc systems are beneficial.

When the proc system was first introduced, we all loved it. We had a method to increase our drops under our own control for once and it brought jobs that were once unneeded back into a group setting. But as we got used to the system, figured out its pattern and got stronger the thinking changed from "proccing increases drops" to "not proccing decreases drops".

I agree that for many of us the problem isn't killing a NM or random mob, it's killing a mob before getting it to proc, and in some cases having the job there to get the wanted proc.

A lot of people will probably come here and agree to get rid of the proc system because it's annoying or makes them have to slow down. They say that in the belief that the drops should stay at the high drop level without having to do anything extra.

I prefer to keep the proc system provided we are in turn rewarded from the extra effort i.e. not VW. In abyssea we can spend about 2x the time on a particular fight to get 3-4x the drops. Dynamis we can get 3-4 coins to drop per fight rather than just 1 every 4-5 fights. That's not saying proccing doesn't have its flaws. Indeed many of us can just charge through a fight easily and proccing does slow us down as we try to find what works. It makes us pick certain jobs just for the purpose of getting procs ignoring any amount of gear or skill, and ignore others because they don't have the abilities we need. If you don't have a proccing job for the fight, you more or less are considered to have wasted your time.

Personally, I think that the idea of proccing should be focused less on the drops and more on the actions of the fight. A dragon starts flying and you pull it down with Jump or Stone (throw a big rock at it). Keeping Gravity on it may prevent it from flying at all. Casting Water or Ice spells cools it so it cannot breathe fire but casting a Fire based spell or WS may cause it to become more powerful. Slashing WS may give an Attack Down effect on a player (bladed weapon against a hard surface) but blunt WS is unaffected. Ranged attacks may cause less enmity, but a Skillchain could put the closing player at the top of the hate list. Things like that. If your group is unable to kill it normally, there are methods to weaken it. If your group can, well they don't need to waste their time.

I'm not sure about how to deal with drops themselves. Trading more items at once for a harder fight like with a few fights in Sea. Having special items only for the purpose of increasing drops like in VW in theory. Things like moon phase or day would just create bottlenecks with everyone there at the same time.

[Mirabelle]

Personally like the proc system. Being able to have some control over drop rates rather relying solely on the vagaries of TH is a boon IMO. It also leads to increased communication during the fight as party members cover the various proc options, announce proc's needed, etc. Gives a greater sense of collaboration to a fight.

Disadvantage has always been the balance which has lead to a number of jobs being favored. But that really has been a problem with FFXI all the way along even before proc systems. Zergs always favored heavy DD, BRDS and WHMS. Kiting strategies favored ranged attackers and PLD's. Meripos favored BRD/COR/SAM/RDM parties. No matter the task, playerbase will cherry pick jobs that make it easier (then of course will complain that nothing is hard anymore).

Admittedly, having proc system on Aby, VW and Dynamis is enough for now. Hopefully SE can be equally creative with other battle systems to make fights interesting.

[Anewie]

Are you suggesting a new system in place or saying you'd prefer going back to low droprates we can do nothing about except throw the dice over and over? Granted VW appears to be the second choice anyway, but both Abyssea and Dynamis proc systems are beneficial.

When the proc system was first introduced, we all loved it. We had a method to increase our drops under our own control for once and it brought jobs that were once unneeded back into a group setting. But as we got used to the system, figured out its pattern and got stronger the thinking changed from "proccing increases drops" to "not proccing decreases drops".

I agree that for many of us the problem isn't killing a NM or random mob, it's killing a mob before getting it to proc, and in some cases having the job there to get the wanted proc.

A lot of people will probably come here and agree to get rid of the proc system because it's annoying or makes them have to slow down. They say that in the belief that the drops should stay at the high drop level without having to do anything extra.

I prefer to keep the proc system provided we are in turn rewarded from the extra effort i.e. not VW. In abyssea we can spend about 2x the time on a particular fight to get 3-4x the drops. Dynamis we can get 3-4 coins to drop per fight rather than just 1 every 4-5 fights. That's not saying proccing doesn't have its flaws. Indeed many of us can just charge through a fight easily and proccing does slow us down as we try to find what works. It makes us pick certain jobs just for the purpose of getting procs ignoring any amount of gear or skill, and ignore others because they don't have the abilities we need. If you don't have a proccing job for the fight, you more or less are considered to have wasted your time.

Personally, I think that the idea of proccing should be focused less on the drops and more on the actions of the fight. A dragon starts flying and you pull it down with Jump or Stone (throw a big rock at it). Keeping Gravity on it may prevent it from flying at all. Casting Water or Ice spells cools it so it cannot breathe fire but casting a Fire based spell or WS may cause it to become more powerful. Slashing WS may give an Attack Down effect on a player (bladed weapon against a hard surface) but blunt WS is unaffected. Ranged attacks may cause less enmity, but a Skillchain could put the closing player at the top of the hate list. Things like that. If your group is unable to kill it normally, there are methods to weaken it. If your group can, well they don't need to waste their time.

I'm not sure about how to deal with drops themselves. Trading more items at once for a harder fight like with a few fights in Sea. Having special items only for the purpose of increasing drops like in VW in theory. Things like moon phase or day would just create bottlenecks with everyone there at the same time.

I meant, Please do not add a PROC SYSTEM to events in the future, if its in regards to endgame content. It's fine in abyssea, I actually like it there, and although it's annoying as HECK in voidwatch, I can tolerate that too. As for dynamis.. No comment...

But please no more proc systems for new endgame events. I myself, do not wanna see proc systems in dungeon crawling, the last stand or any toau revamp. This includes einherjar and salvage revamps obviously (OMG THAT WOULD BE ANNOYING)