WSNM quest giver wont give WSNM before af1 completed and my weapons are 300+ skill

[Tamoa]

All af1 body does is let you hit a little faster, but with af3+2 4/5 and ocelot's, you notice the extra hits from the set bonus and the af3+2 body is far superior on damage per hit. Add to the fact that af3+2 body augments migawari, which is far more important than a slight increase in your attack speed, and you can see how while af1+1 body is nice, its not my personal choice.

I do believe it has been tested and mathed out that tping in Ninja Chainmail is superior to the set effect from Iga +2, not that I can be bothered to try to dig up the posts about it right now. To get the full effect from AF3 +2, which is 10%, you need to wear the FULL set, meaning you aren't even capping haste AND you've lost the 5% reduction in delay from Ninja Chainmail.

So yeah, you tp in your af1+1 and when you get hit with an AOE Damage+DOT attack from that HNM your tanking and your non-augmented migawari doesn't save you and you die, I'll have enough life left from migawari/af3+2 body augment to recast utsusemi and survive the DOT/or the stray hit after the AOE and before I can recast utsusemi, long enough for the Whm to cure me to full. Because remember, that -5% on your delay is more important than augmenting migawari, better damage per hit, +5 critical hit rate, and the peice going towards the set bonus from af3+2. That's silly, right?

If you don't make a migawari macro which includes equipping Iga Ningi +1 or +2, you're doing it wrong. Swap back to Ninja Chainmail once migawari wears.

Actually - please do tell me what kind of AOE spell/move can 1shot or nearly 1shot a nin without migawari, because I can only think of self destruct and I don't know a single hnm which does that... So I would really like to know which HNM you are talking about in the above quote. Migawari is in my opinion a great spell for moves you KNOW will otherwise 1shot you. Oh and btw, migawari without Iga Ningi +1 or +2 will still save you from being 1shot.

With Ninja Chainmail and capped haste, you reach 100tp faster than with 4/5 AF3 +2 and ocelot gloves. Which means you ws more often. Which means stuff dies faster.

And to round off: "the af3+2 body is far superior on damage per hit" - what exactly is that supposed to mean?? We are talking a piece of armour here, not a weapon.

[SNK]

All af1 body does is let you hit a little faster, but with af3+2 4/5 and ocelot's, you notice the extra hits from the set bonus and the af3+2 body is far superior on damage per hit. Add to the fact that af3+2 body augments migawari, which is far more important than a slight increase in your attack speed, and you can see how while af1+1 body is nice, its not my personal choice.

So yeah, you tp in your af1+1 and when you get hit with an AOE Damage+DOT attack from that HNM your tanking and your non-augmented migawari doesn't save you and you die, I'll have enough life left from migawari/af3+2 body augment to recast utsusemi and survive the DOT/or the stray hit after the AOE and before I can recast utsusemi, long enough for the Whm to cure me to full. Because remember, that -5% on your delay is more important than augmenting migawari, better damage per hit, +5 critical hit rate, and the peice going towards the set bonus from af3+2. That's silly, right?

Barring your reply to me which the person above my post pretty much made my point I have one simple question to ask you.


Why in the hell did you take almost 2 months to reply to this thread?

[Concerned4FFxi]

And to round off: "the af3+2 body is far superior on damage per hit" - what exactly is that supposed to mean?? We are talking a piece of armour here, not a weapon.

Real cute, acting like you don’t know what I’m talking about. Why was Kirin’s Osode so popular, because the +10 all stats affects damage output, but you already know that so stop acting like you don‘t understand me. Let’s look at some of the gear’s stats that are for tp/damage.

AF1+1 body
+5 Dex, -5% DW

AF3+2 body
+12Str/Dex, Acc +17, Attack +17, Crit hit rate +5% (set bonus occ extra attack)

I agree, AF1+1 you will tp faster, do WS slightly faster, that is a given. What I said in my previous post is I like af3+2 better, it hits harder and with the set bonus I feel it’s better because it can tp almost as fast, but with the added bonuses that it offers I feel it wins out over af1 body. You can’t say that an extra 7Dex and 5% crit hit, 17 acc and 17 Attack doesn’t increase your damage per hit over af1. Also, despite the math which was done for tp purpose, where’s the math that covers crit hit rate comparison and over all damage vs. the two sets. Af3+2 does more damage per hit, over time that slight tp bonus advantage you get from swinging a little faster on af1 isn’t the same. I’m hitting harder every swing, I’m criting more often, and if I’m tanking I have augmented Migawari, which let’s face it that is needed more than non augmented version. Again, your twisting my post when it’s clearly stated a non-augmented Migawari isn’t going to save you from dot, or anything that stripped your shadows and hits you while your recasting shadows. An augmented Migawari has a much better survival rate.

Actually - please do tell me what kind of AOE spell/move can 1shot or nearly 1shot a nin without migawari, because I can only think of self destruct and I don't know a single hnm which does that... So I would really like to know which HNM you are talking about in the above quote.

Lol, again, you know what I’m talking about here stop playing, I can pull four nm right off the top of my head.

Indrik:
Scintillant Lance - Powerful conal, magical light damage. Damage rises with each use of
Damsel Memento

Assailer Chariot:
Discoid - Magical AoE damage dealing half of the total damage inflicted to it since the last time Discoid was used and it is used rather quickly from the readying stance.

Glavoid:
Disgorge - Conal Earth damage based on amount of HP drained by Gorge and amount of HP healed. Can be used without having successfully used Gorge prior.

Khimaira Family:
Plague Swipe - Delivers a threefold attack in a cone effect behind user. Additional effect: Bio + Plague

Conclusion: From what I stated about having more Crit hits, and not fighting trash mobs, where the acc is needed such as HNM in the future, outside abyssea where stats on gear matters and acc isn‘t capped, some VW NM even, I prefer Af3+2 for tp body. I agree AF1 may get you to 100tp faster if your fighting low acc mobs, or in abyssea where stats on gear doesn’t mean as much, but I like the bonus of the af3 set and the stats on the af3+2 body better. If, I’m using af1+1 body, and I miss 1-2 hits on a HNM, then it is inferior in tp gain to af3+2 body, as well as the stat difference I already discussed.

So think about, AF3+2 hits harder, and on higher eva mobs, hits and crits more often, and does more damage per hit due to critting more often, the +12str and the superior +7dex compared to its af1 counter part, what’s not to like. I think both sets have their uses, I prefer AF3+2 body, the argument for nin af1 body to me isn’t strong enough for me to carry it.

Maybe I’ll change my mind someday, the same time you acknowledge some of my points perhaps. If af1+2 body has -10% DW, then I will reconsider, as it stands now it’s not on my list because -5%DW in the body slot, for already low delay weapons, with an already high dw trait from the job, and already using suppa earring, isn’t enough for me to trade up from my af3+2 body with it‘s superior stats in that slot.

However, this was a bug thread that got turned into an AF body debate. Please note your attitude towards me here previously, and in the future try not to be so critical (pun intended, get it, af3+2, has higher crit hit rate, lol) when commenting, thank you.

[Tamoa]

Real cute, acting like you don’t know what I’m talking about. Why was Kirin’s Osode so popular, because the +10 all stats affects damage output, but you already know that so stop acting like you don‘t understand me.

Anyone tp'ing in Kirin's Osode is a moron, whether it's 2006 or 2011. It was a solid ws piece for some DD jobs. That's exactly what Iga Ningi +2 is, a ws piece for nin (outside of abyssea).

What I said in my previous post is I like af3+2 better, it hits harder

Do you tp in str gear?

Af3+2 does more damage per hit, over time that slight tp bonus advantage you get from swinging a little faster on af1 isn’t the same.

Over time tp'ing in Ninja Chainmail will enable you to ws the same mob more often, i.e. killing it faster. Ws'ing more often will help you keep hate too.



I'm sorry, I don't really consider abyssea nms to be HNMs. But yes, migawari can be useful against the nms you mentioned, not denying that at all. And that's when you hit your migawari macro, swap to AF3 +1 or +2 body and keep it on for the duration of the spell. Accuracy shouldn't be an issue in abyssea, neither should attack or crit hit rate. Outside abyssea, acc shouldn't be an issue either since nin doesn't tank in vwnm which really is the only occasion where acc will be a problem.

Now for ninja, absolutely none of the af1 is needed in today's 90+....

I reacted to that part of your first post because it's quite the bold statement, and incorrect at that. Also, why wouldn't you want your af1 feet?

[Concerned4FFxi]

Twice now you've misunderstood, what's the point in posting again to you, or anyone else that gets cocky about there opinion yet misinterprets eveything I say to them.

I wouldn't outright call an opinion stupid, unless provoked first, but the comments on here by me are in plain simple english, please follow the converation.

You said to me orginally, when you quoted what i said:

And to round off: "the af3+2 body is far superior on damage per hit" - what exactly is that supposed to mean?? We are talking a piece of armour here, not a weapon.

"We are talking a piece of armour here, not a weapon", that's what you said, to this I replied:

Why was Kirin’s Osode so popular, because the +10 all stats affects damage output

"because the +10 all stats affects damage output"

To this you said:

Anyone tp'ing in Kirin's Osode is a moron, whether it's 2006 or 2011.

Where the hell do you see me saying it's a good tp peice, we were talking about stats on gear, any gear, and that it effects damage, duh, hello that's why stats are on your freaking ws set that you keep bringing up, because the gear effects damage.

Having to repeat myself on the same sub topic is crazy, there's no hope for a discussion here if as soon as I make a simple statement about the stats on gear to explain a simple point you take what I said, twice now, and twist the shit up, all why acting like I'm being silly when I didn't even hint at that.

Your previous statement you tried to act like stats on gear didn't affect damage, you think I'm saying to tp in osode now when I never said osode and tp in the same paragraph, stop reading into what I'm saying and READ WHAT IM SAYING.

Now be a good girl and point out to me where I mentioned tp in osode? If I wanted everything I said to be warped into nonsense I'd run for elected office. I've said my peace about why I LIKE AF3, if you can't get past plain english then my wall will do better as a debater, at least I don't have to worry about the wall not getting the basic arguement. I can't hope that you understand me at the core here for us to have a debate, if you can't undertsand the basics leading up to it what I'm trying to say as a whole. What's aggrivating is that you know exactly wtf I'm talking about, yet your still clueless about wtf I'm talking about, when you say I'm saying tp in osode, but what I'm saying, per the quote above, is so basic I can't believe I have to repeat stats on gear like str on osode add to damage output. That's all I am saying when I said that, nothing more and nothing less, nothing inbetween the lines.

And that's when you hit your migawari macro, swap to AF3 +1

Why macro the gearset in for migawari if the augment only works while the gear is equipped?See anyone can twist someone's words around, and play them out of context, so don't do it to me and I won't do it to you, ecxcept you actually did miss speak, I didn't make it up, but I'm big enough to understand it was a slip of the tongue and that you knew better:

If you don't make a migawari macro which includes equipping Iga Ningi +1 or +2, you're doing it wrong. Swap back to Ninja Chainmail once migawari wears.

Now, about what you said here:

Accuracy shouldn't be an issue in abyssea, neither should attack or crit hit rate. Outside abyssea, acc shouldn't be an issue either since nin doesn't tank in vwnm which really is the only occasion where acc will be a problem.

Wow, didn't I already respond to this?

Conclusion: From what I stated about having more Crit hits, and not fighting trash mobs, where the acc is needed such as HNM in the future, outside abyssea where stats on gear matters and acc isn‘t capped, some VW NM even, I prefer Af3+2 for tp body. I agree AF1 may get you to 100tp faster if your fighting low acc mobs, or in abyssea where stats on gear doesn’t mean as much, but I like the bonus of the af3 set and the stats on the af3+2 body better. If, I’m using af1+1 body, and I miss 1-2 hits on a HNM, then it is inferior in tp gain to af3+2 body, as well as the stat difference I already discussed.

Your gonna tp on these VWNM right? You even said that soime VWNM, acc might be a problem, well IF acc is a problem then af3+2 is going to land more hits than af1+1, more hits, more tp, more ws. That's the logic your going by for af1, and on high eva mobs, it's the same logic for af3 as well.

Also, note, I said HNM in the future in my quote above, I hope you weren't talking about this:

Indrik:
Scintillant Lance - Powerful conal, magical light damage. Damage rises with each use of
Damsel Memento

Assailer Chariot:
Discoid - Magical AoE damage dealing half of the total damage inflicted to it since the last time Discoid was used and it is used rather quickly from the readying stance.

Glavoid:
Disgorge - Conal Earth damage based on amount of HP drained by Gorge and amount of HP healed. Can be used without having successfully used Gorge prior.

Khimaira Family:
Plague Swipe - Delivers a threefold attack in a cone effect behind user. Additional effect: Bio + Plague

When you said this:
[QUOTE=Tamoa;238996]I'm sorry, I don't really consider abyssea nms to be HNMs.

You asked for an example of moves that could kill a nin in one hit, I gave you four above, at no time did I say these where HNM, or nm outside abyssea.

Actually - please do tell me what kind of AOE spell/move can 1shot or nearly 1shot a nin without migawari, because I can only think of self destruct and I don't know a single hnm which does that... So I would really like to know which HNM you are talking about in the above quote. Migawari is in my opinion a great spell for moves you KNOW will otherwise 1shot you. Oh and btw, migawari without Iga Ningi +1 or +2 will still save you from being 1shot.

....

So think about, AF3+2 hits harder, and on higher eva mobs, hits and crits more often, and does more damage per hit due to critting more often, the +12str and the superior +7dex compared to its af1 counter part, what’s not to like.

What I said in my previous post is I like af3+2 better, it hits harder and with the set bonus I feel it’s better because it can tp almost as fast, but with the added bonuses that it offers I feel it wins out over af1 body. You can’t say that an extra 7Dex and 5% crit hit, 17 acc and 17 Attack doesn’t increase your damage per hit over af1. Also, despite the math which was done for tp purpose, where’s the math that covers crit hit rate comparison and over all damage vs. the two sets. Af3+2 does more damage per hit, over time that slight tp bonus advantage you get from swinging a little faster on af1 isn’t the same. I’m hitting harder every swing, I’m criting more

Look, I don't want to be mean to you or anybody else on here, period. I'm getting upset that you wish to use words such as moron, and if you or anyone else continues to behave like this then I'll continue to berate as well, just because you disagree or misunderstand what I'm saying, that to me is unacceptable.

I like AF3+2 better, I have 20 jobs, I have an empyrean and working on several others, I'm not interested in a slight DW gain, on low delay weapons, in a body slot when I can put on af3+2 with better stats. While it might not shine in abyssea, and I conceeded that already in my previous posts, it WILL and does out tp on high eva mobs, outside abyssea, and on future HNM.

The gain of af1 over af3 in the tp department in abyssea or on low eva trash mobs, to me, IS NOT worth my time. I got 20 jobs and gearing them and getting empyreans for them all, except a few empyreans like pole arm and staff, as well as 100 other things i'm doing is more important to me than getting a body peice that only gives a slight tp gain over af3 on mobs where acc is not an issue, aka, abyssea. Because in the end, that's all it is, slight, and only on trash. Go take the trash out then, i'll stick with af3 because until better comes out, this is what I'll use to tp and tank high eva mobs with, and since it can hit better and has more acc than af1, I'll see a better tp return than af1.

As for the feet, they are situational, that's an extra item I have to carry for night use only. I already have 12% movement speed feet for nin/sam that are 12% full time, reguardless of time of day. If I need to run that fast, i'll go thf and use flee, after I macro in the thf af1 feet. The point is, if I played only nin, I'd get everything for it, I don't only play nin and so I don't have time for something that is marginally better than another item and only in a certain situation, in this case af1 body inside abyssea and af1 feet at night only. But, if you read the orginal post, which has nothing to do with this current topic, you will see that I do have nin af1 feet and I don't bother with them they are in moogle storage. I prefer not to carry three feet just for nin, one to tp/cast shadows in, one to run at night, and one toi run in the day. Instead, I chose to carry just the af3 feet and the full time 12% nin/sam movement speed ones.

Also, by reading the orginal post, you might understand, you might not because it wasn't said clearly because it was off topic orginally, but before I even leveled ninja past 49, before I even did the wsnm quest or had katana skill oveer 250, I had the af3+2 body. That's the main reason I didn't want to do the af1 body, because it's not as good over all, and it only is good (af1 nin body), to me, in abyssea. Furthermore, as the op stated, I was being forced to do the af against my will, because of a previous bug I got last year or the year before that one, doing my third or four wsnm latent break, which seems to affect future wsnm latent breaks and occasionally af1 quests. The main reason of my position is that I already had af3+2 body, and didn't see the need to get the af1 body. It's not as great as you think, as you even admitted, high eva mobs outside abyssea is where af3 is good. Abyssea is just one part of 11.

[Tamoa]

1. You have stated several times now that you prefer to tp in nin AF3 body. You also outright said "it hits harder". Then you bring up Kirin's Osode - which, if used correctly on a DD job - was a ws piece. Yes the stats on it affected damage output. Why? Because weaponskills have modifiers. Such as for a sam where STR heavily modifies Y/G/K. Anyone who uses or used Osode to tp in, thinking it's good because the stats on it makes them hit harder, are misinformed.

What do you think will do more total damage in a fight - lowering your weapons delay thus enabling you to ws more frequently, or adding stats which might make you hit for say, 10 more damage per hit on average?

2. As for Migawari, if making a macro which includes equipping Iga Ningi +1 or +2 and then keeping it equipped until Migawari effect wears to gain the full effect of the spell (which is what I have said twice now) is too much trouble, then I don't know what to say really.

3. When it comes to nin and voidwatch I don't know anybody who brings a nin for it's ability to deal damage to a vwnm fight. Nin generally sucks in vwnm, main use is for procs and that's it. If you need a DD, there are other and much better jobs for that purpose. That aside, if you still bring nin for vwnm, and accuracy is suffering - there's such a thing as food. Even if the nin is there only for procs, and needs to tp, Stalwart's Drink says hello.

I like AF3+2 better, I have 20 jobs, I have an empyrean and working on several others, I'm not interested in a slight DW gain, on low delay weapons, in a body slot when I can put on af3+2 with better stats. While it might not shine in abyssea, and I conceeded that already in my previous posts, it WILL and does out tp on high eva mobs, outside abyssea, and on future HNM.

4. Neither you nor me know what those "future HNM" will be like. They do not exist yet and therefore that specific statement is meaningless.

5. I have 18 95 jobs, 1 90 job and 1 75 job. All but 2 are geared, my favourite jobs are very well geared. I have 4 empyrean weapons. What exactly is your point?


My initial gripe with your first post was you saying that absolutely none of nin AF is needed. You can tp in nin af3 body all you want, that is your prerogative. Just don't try to argue that it's the better choice, because it isn't.

All you had to do, was to say "I don't care enough about nin/don't play it often enough to make me want to get the AF body". Instead you've been trying to defend your choice of tp body by saying "it hits harder", which is on par with those players that tp in str gear instead of haste gear.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Too long; didn't read.

[Jhanaka]

Hello everyone!

We ask that you refrain from having debates about gear in the Bug Report section.

Concerned4FFxi > Did you still wish to progress with the Bug Report request?

Thank you!

[Concerned4FFxi]

Yes, I just haven't finished ninja katana WSNM yet or my mule's ASA quest, will update as soon as those quests/latents are complete and I document the next wsnm I attempt (probably SAM) on amaday and reattempt the club WSNM on refriedbrains, will keep thread informed and this time I will be very careful of noting more details before attempting to insure a more accurate observation, thank you GM.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Ok, GK gave me no issue, will complete trial and have only two of the wsnm left, gun and bow. Will update thread once I have completed GK and attempted to flag the other two, if there's no issue I will post, if there is an issue I will post, ty. As for the mule and ASA, still haven't leveled alchemy for ASA item.