Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Neisan_Quetz]

War is on Ragnarok (Prd too), but not Guttler, even though it has higher Axe skill. Samurai is on Yoichi, but has no native Archery Weaponskills.

Whatever they used to decide what job gets what relic didn't make sense the first time.

Actually, Prd having A club never made sense either.

And if the update goes live it looks like Mandau just became lolmeleerdm's best offhand.

[Suirieko]

It computes perfectly, it just very slightly tampers with some existing lore, which can be explained away with more lore. This isn't a good argument against such an idea.

No, it does not computes perfectly. Mandau is supposed to be as the "legendary dagger weapon", period, so therefore, it is supposed to be as the best dagger of all. Same with all the other relic. There can only be one relic weapon for each weapon type, Having another relic dagger is just stupid and goes against the lore.

It's not useable by every job that can equip a dagger, even before new jobs came out. It was useable by specifically designated jobs out of those that can wield a dagger. PLD is not on the relic club, even though PLD technically gets a higher degree of mastery with that weapon type than WHM. They consciously decided on a select few jobs (or one in some cases) to get each weapon- it was an arbitrary decision.

Dunno why I posted this since my head is just going to get torn off by some valiant defender, but whatever. Not going to say anything else for a while at least.

Yes, Paladin have a higher degree of weapon mastery with club than White mages, but do they use the club primarily? No, they use sword primarily so therefore, it makes sense for them to have Excalibur. Monk and Warrior have higher skill for Staff than Black mage and summoner. Do they get the relic staff? No. Monk uses H2H Primarily and WAR, Great Axe, primarily.

Dancer uses Dagger primarily, therefore, they should get access to Mandau. Blue Mage uses Sword primarily, therefore, they should use Excalibur. Corsair uses guns primarily, therefore, they should get Annihilator. Puppetmaster uses H2H primarily, so therefore, they get Spharai.

This isn't about Giving jobs access to weapon just because they can use the weapon type. This is about giving access to relics because they don't HAVE the access, especially when they can use it primarily.

[Atomic_Skull]

Yes, Paladin have a higher degree of weapon mastery with club than White mages, but do they use the club primarily? No, they use sword primarily so therefore, it makes sense for them to have Excalibur.

Shouldn't RDM only have Excalibur in that case?

[Greatguardian]

People need to get off this "PLD has A club" business. They can't use hammers. Period. Mjollnir is a hammer. Problem: Solved.

[Arcon]

Calm down?

They're all up in a roar about it because unlike RDM or BRD, DNC would use the dagger well.

I only see people like you guys crying about people crying about it. I don't see the people that are actually crying about it. Stop making stuff up.

As I said before, this is largely a matter of opinion. The facts can be summed up like this:
- There is only one weapon for each class (supposedly the best of its class)
- Every job is on at least one relic weapon (pre ToAU)
- Being able to wield a weapon depends on the weapon type as well

The last point simply means what Greatguardian already said. While PLD have high Club skill, they can't use hammers, which is what Mjollnir is. Same with WAR, who can't use tabar-type axes and lance-type polearms, which is what Guttler and Gungnir are. Dark Knights can't use most bhuj-type great axes (they can use lower level ones, but not higher level ones... not quite sure why, but you can still see the separation), which is what Bravura is, and so on.

Mandau, for example, is a knife. With some notable exceptions (Chicken Knife, Thief's Knife, Corsair's Knife, etc.), DNC has always been able to wield knives (only dagger-types DNC can't use are baselard and kris daggers), which is why I believe it would make sense to add them to that.

All of those three facts would hint at allowing new jobs to join existing weapons. However, there is no rule that can't be (or hasn't been) broken (especially by SE). They go against their own pattern quite frequently and use some additional lore to make up for it. They could just as well do it for this, whether it makes sense or not. In the end, it is what it is, personal preference. I think having new relics for new jobs would suck, especially since my OCD doesn't want the first fact I mentioned to be broken (I hate breaking patterns). That's all anyone can argue in here.

[Zagen]

I only see people like you guys crying about people crying about it. I don't see the people that are actually crying about it. Stop making stuff up.

Eh? These 2 posts pretty much started the whole THF vs. DNC thing in the first few pages and probably further into the thread there's more I don't remember but I didn't bother going past page 6.

SE has given DNC too much of THF's stuff already. No more please.

THF is supposed to be the master of daggers but SE has basically made DNC into "THF only better!" I don't want to see one of the few things remaining that is THF's given over to DNC.

And no, RDM and BRD don't count.

Granted it seemed as though Atomic_Skull Vs. everyone else for the most part. Might have had more people on his/her side but again didn't care to go through anymore pages to prove it wasn't "made up"

[Suirieko]

Shouldn't RDM only have Excalibur in that case?

Um. No? I was responding to Alhanelem's post here:

PLD is not on the relic club, even though PLD technically gets a higher degree of mastery with that weapon type than WHM.

And I was basically arguing how that is a silly arguement because it doesn't matter what the skill level is for certain weapon type. Monk have higher skill in Staff than other mages, but do you see them having access to Claustrum? No. Paladin is a primary sword user, so it makes sense for them to have Excalibur. Red Mage uses swords primarily so they have access to Excalibur. Blue Mage uses sword primarily, so therefore, they SHOULD have access to Excalibur. That is the argument here.

People need to get off this "PLD has A club" business. They can't use hammers. Period. Mjollnir is a hammer. Problem: Solved.

I really don't think anyone would care about Paladin and club. It was a silly argument that Alhanelem made to try to argue why the five new jobs shouldn't have access to the relic weapons. As I said again, this isn't about giving relic to jobs just because they can use the weapon. This is about giving relic weapons to jobs (that don't even have access to relic weapons) that PRIMARILY uses the said weapon type. There's a different. IE: No one is saying Ninja should be able to use Mandau just because they can use dagger.

[Atomic_Skull]

People need to get off this "PLD has A club" business. They can't use hammers. Period. Mjollnir is a hammer. Problem: Solved.

They can't?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Brass_Jadagna_%2B1

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Brise-os_%2B1

The shape and the damage rating compared to other clubs at their level clearly place these in the "hammer" class. The argument that DNC should get Mandau because they can already use a few dagger type weapons can also be used to argue that PLD should have Mjollnir for the same reason.

[Zagen]

They can't?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Brass_Jadagna_%2B1

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Brise-os_%2B1

The shape and the damage rating compared to other clubs at their level clearly place these in the "hammer" class. The argument that DNC should get Mandau because they can already use a few dagger type weapons can also be used to argue that PLD should have Mjollnir for the same reason.

You seem to have forgotten the "Mace" class of clubs. Just saying, tbh I don't care if PLD was added to Club Relic or not.

[Atomic_Skull]

You seem to have forgotten the "Mace" class of clubs.

Except that those are clearly hammers and not maces.