Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Suirieko]

And they had to get out the pitchforks and burning torches just to get that much. In it's original form Bully increased treasure hunter proc rate.

Bully, in its original form, only caused mobs to get intimidated, and it didn't prove to be useful. Treasure hunter was eventually added, but even then it wasn't enough.

[Byrth]

If anyone was wondering still, Assassin's Charge definitely came after Assassin:
Assassin - http://www.playonline.com/updateus/041209we8yu0.html
Assassin's Charge - http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update...N1/detail.html

Also, the description given to Assassin seems to be incorrect.

[Arcon]

Also, the description given to Assassin seems to be incorrect.

Made me chuckle. Thanks for clearing that up though.

[Aana]

It's not about which is better it's about SE buffing DNC to ridiculous levels by giving them things THFs have been asking for for years while letting THF languish, then taking things from THF and giving them to dancer in a better form on top of that.

And that is why career THF's rage at the idea of giving Mandau, the highest symbol of a THF's dedication to the job, to DNC.

You know how fans of real horror films hate Twilight? That's how career THF's feel about DNC.

Thanks for speaking for me. Thf main. Doesnt care if dnc is on mandau.

Mandau is not some flawless symbol of thfdom. Players turned a digital item into a symbol. Mandau is not a symbol of thf. It is a symbol of the perfection of dagger. Just like gugnir is not the perfection of drg, but the perfection of polearm.

Relic weapons are designed as the pinnacle of the WEAPON CLASS. There is 1 for each weapon class, and it is (in lore anyway) the strongest weapon of that classification. Creating new 'relic weapons' does not compute. Creating a NEW relic dagger spits in the face of Mandau more than adding a new job to it because a parallel "best dagger" destroys the entire concept (lore wise) of the BEST DAGGER. There can be only one.

Jobs that focus on a specific weapon class should be able to access the pinnical of that class. If a damn BARD can use the best dagger in the game, any argument taht thf is the superior dagger class to dnc is moot because both are far superior to rdm and brd in dagger proficiency. If a rdm can manage to wield excal, im sure a blu is up to the task. If a Sam can wield the bow, im certain a cor can handle the gun properly. This is not about job distinction. Its bout job inclusion.

'Expanding' relics to have parallel copies of a weapon undermines the concept of a 'best in class' weapon in its entirety. So long as bard and Rdm can wield a mandau and sam can wield yoichi and rdm can wield excal, then dnc/blu/cor have more than competent and skilled enough to wield this calibur of weapons.

This is not job vs job. This is allowing jobs to access the static 'best in class' style weapons that relics are for the wepaons in which said jobs are exceptionally proficient in. New relics are not the solution because then they wouldnt be relics. There is 1 for every weapon class. Every weapon class already exists, therefore the weapons require retrofit instead of forging entirely new ones. It makes more sense lore wise, AND it is the occams solution. Its both the most logical (in vanadiel) and the most practical (on earth) to implement.
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Edit:
Also, i fail to see how Dnc bein on mandau is the same as horror buffs watching some teen girl book in movie form. Just because a movie has Vamps and Werewolves doesnt make it horror and thus horror fans shouldnt feel threatened by it. Wait a second....maybe it does make sense.

Just because a movie Job Class has Vamps and Werewolves uses daggers and equips mandau doesnt make it horror Thf and thus horror fans Thfs shouldnt feel threatened by it.

Werewolves and Vampires does not a horror film make. Using daggers and equiping mandau does not a thf make. Dnc is still just some fluffy teen girl that likes twilight and Thf is the hardcore horror genre. So they both have share vamps and were's. They arent anything near the same thing. Equiping a mandau makes dnc no more a thf than team edward being a vampire fan club makes twilight a horror film.
Nevermind i take it back, that is a perfect analogy. Thanks.

[Suirieko]

Thanks for speaking for me. Thf main. Doesnt care if dnc is on mandau.

Mandau is not some flawless symbol of thfdom. Players turned a digital item into a symbol. Mandau is not a symbol of thf. It is a symbol of the perfection of dagger. Just like gugnir is not the perfection of drg, but the perfection of polearm.

Relic weapons are designed as the pinnacle of the WEAPON CLASS. There is 1 for each weapon class, and it is (in lore anyway) the strongest weapon of that classification. Creating new 'relic weapons' does not compute. Creating a NEW relic dagger spits in the face of Mandau more than adding a new job to it because a parallel "best dagger" destroys the entire concept (lore wise) of the BEST DAGGER. There can be only one.

Jobs that focus on a specific weapon class should be able to access the pinnical of that class. If a damn BARD can use the best dagger in the game, any argument taht thf is the superior dagger class to dnc is moot because both are far superior to rdm and brd in dagger proficiency. If a rdm can manage to wield excal, im sure a blu is up to the task. If a Sam can wield the bow, im certain a cor can handle the gun properly. This is not about job distinction. Its bout job inclusion.

'Expanding' relics to have parallel copies of a weapon undermines the concept of a 'best in class' weapon in its entirety. So long as bard and Rdm can wield a mandau and sam can wield yoichi and rdm can wield excal, then dnc/blu/cor have more than competent and skilled enough to wield this calibur of weapons.

This is not job vs job. This is allowing jobs to access the static 'best in class' style weapons that relics are for the wepaons in which said jobs are exceptionally proficient in. New relics are not the solution because then they wouldnt be relics. There is 1 for every weapon class. Every weapon class already exists, therefore the weapons require retrofit instead of forging entirely new ones. It makes more sense lore wise, AND it is the occams solution. Its both the most logical (in vanadiel) and the most practical (on earth) to implement.
___________________________________________________
Edit:
Also, i fail to see how Dnc bein on mandau is the same as horror buffs watching some teen girl book in movie form. Just because a movie has Vamps and Werewolves doesnt make it horror and thus horror fans shouldnt feel threatened by it. Wait a second....maybe it does make sense.

Just because a movie Job Class has Vamps and Werewolves uses daggers and equips mandau doesnt make it horror Thf and thus horror fans Thfs shouldnt feel threatened by it.

Werewolves and Vampires does not a horror film make. Using daggers and equiping mandau does not a thf make. Dnc is still just some fluffy teen girl that likes twilight and Thf is the hardcore horror genre. So they both have share vamps and were's. They arent anything near the same thing. Equiping a mandau makes dnc no more a thf than team edward being a vampire fan club makes twilight a horror film.
Nevermind i take it back, that is a perfect analogy. Thanks.

If I could 'like' your post 100 more times, I would. I agree with your post 100%.

See it shouldn't bother THF that DNC gets the weapon. DNC uses dagger primarily, so they have the right to use Mandau as much as THF does.

Also, making a different "weapon types" just so new jobs can equip it, completely goes against the lore. Relics should be the best of the best, and that is exactly the reason why all 20 of the jobs should be able to use the relic weapons.

[Byrth]

Plus, it'd be awesome to use Mandau offhand on Dancer. When I plug it all in to Motenten's spreadsheet, Mandau comes out about 5-6% ahead (total DPS) of a STR Kila +2 outside Abyssea fighting Fodder mobs as an offhand due to its Attack.

[Helel]

Are people seriously forgetting that RDM is on the dagger as well as BRD? Why is this such a big deal when the dagger can already be used by multiple jobs...? Granted DNC uses dagger more so than BRD or RDM, mandau is still an excellent relic for those jobs, and definitely the best weapon if it's available.

Calm down?

[Zagen]

Are people seriously forgetting that RDM is on the dagger as well as BRD? Why is this such a big deal when the dagger can already be used by multiple jobs...? Granted DNC uses dagger more so than BRD or RDM, mandau is still an excellent relic for those jobs, and definitely the best weapon if it's available.

Calm down?

They're all up in a roar about it because unlike RDM or BRD, DNC would use the dagger well. They're crying because outside of TH DNC has taken a lot of the THF shine away with similar abilities, though really THF is only used for TH by most groups so I don't see why they're upset over the idea of DNC being on Mandau its not like either job is wanted outside of dagger procs or TH in THF's case.

[Alhanelem]

Creating new 'relic weapons' does not compute.

It computes perfectly, it just very slightly tampers with some existing lore, which can be explained away with more lore. This isn't a good argument against such an idea.

Why is this such a big deal when the dagger can already be used by multiple jobs...?

It's not useable by every job that can equip a dagger, even before new jobs came out. It was useable by specifically designated jobs out of those that can wield a dagger. PLD is not on the relic club, even though PLD technically gets a higher degree of mastery with that weapon type than WHM. They consciously decided on a select few jobs (or one in some cases) to get each weapon- it was an arbitrary decision.

Dunno why I posted this since my head is just going to get torn off by some valiant defender, but whatever. Not going to say anything else for a while at least.

[Raksha]

Not going to say anything else for a while at least.

And then, all of a sudden, 25 pages of waaaaaaaaaa was totally worth it.