Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Kimble]

it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.

Because all that does, is take a crap on the 15 other jobs that have relic. Adding jobs to existing relics would give 4 of the 5 a benefit (mandau being a strong DD weapon for DNC, Gun being a good physical weapon for COR, H2H being a good defensive weapon for PUP, and sword being a good DD choice for BLU)

You keep whining that adding jobs to current weapons is unfair because if someone owns a relic and happens to have a job leveled that is being added to said relic would mean they are getting it "for free" No, they arent. They already spent the time and money to get the weapon.

[Sotek]

I know I said I'd ignore you, but wow.

it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

[SIZE="5"]THEY DON'T GET IT FOR FREE!

THEY STILL SPENT THE GIL TO OBTAIN THE WEAPON. THE PALADIN WHO LEVELED BLUE MAGE WHEN IT CAME OUT STILL PUT THE TIME IN TO OBTAIN HOMAM GEAR. THEY. DON'T. GET. IT. FOR. FREE.[/SIZE]

Seriously, do you think Blue Mages are just going to get Excaliburs in the Mog House if SE does this? The job doesn't matter; only in the sense that the new jobs match the weapon. The individual still put the work into the weapon.

[Suirieko]

it's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.

Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.

That's just it. They're not getting it for "free" they already spent a HELL of an effort getting these relic weapons (I will admit that relic weapons are easier to get relic now compared to before). So therefore, there's no "free pass" because it was already damn difficult to get the relic weapons, and there is no need to make it anymore difficult just because the said jobs are newer.

I already spent 3 months working on Mandau. I'm most certainly not getting it for free

400 byne bills != Free
1400 Ordelle Bronzepieces != Free
6200 Tukuku Whiteshells != Free
10000 (technically 7000) != Free

Not to mention getting the required items as well. (Fragment, attestation, necropsyches, crafting materials needed for it).

It took a LOT of time getting the relic weapons. Like I said, I'm almost done with Mandau (I am taking a break now because I can't get on FFXI for now), why do I have to do even more work just so I can equip it on Dancer?

And also, that's just it. Every jobs can use Empyrean. Every jobs can use Mythics, so, why CAN'T every jobs use relic weapons? That's the argument here, every job should be able to use relics as well, to maintain equality.

The Homam wasn't "built around BLU" and yet they can equip it.

The W. Abjuration set wasn't built around "Corsair" and yet they can equip it.

I could just go on and on and on.

Let's not even forget that all 5 of the newer said jobs can equip the fake relic weapons.

It's now an issue because relic weapons are now easier to obtain than before thanks to Dynamis changes. they don't need to rely on 18 to 36 people to get relic done when they could solo it to doing it in small group.

[Sotek]

Oh look he's back to "It would be better for the jobs because the new weapons would be built around them". Not like I shot that argument down ten pages ago.

[Alhanelem]

It took a LOT of time getting the relic weapons. Like I said, I'm almost done with Mandau

Just because you spent X million gil on something, it doesn't entitle you to have the weapon twisted to work on any job you want it to work on.

I spent many millions on the PUP attachments. not 100 mil, to be sure, but still a lot. I can't use any of these items on anything but PUP. Does that mean it wasn't worth it? Should these items be made to be useful to everyone else? No. You paid 150 mil to get the best thief/bard/redmage weapon, not the best dancer weapon.

A somewhat poor analogy, I admit, but just because you spent a lot of gil on something, that doesn't mean you can have everything you want.

Making relics easier to get makes this less of an issue, not more, in my eye. Everyone who feels they can get a relic is going for one with the understanding of what jobs it can be used on. I don't know anyone who's making a mandau because they think SE will change it so DNC can use it, at least. The sooner they would make new weapons, the sooner people who want a relic for DNC could just switch to that.

Every jobs can use Empyrean. Every jobs can use Mythics, so, why CAN'T every jobs use relic weapons?

Because there isn't any obligation to make <insert content here> useable by all jobs. Not every activity you do has an equivalent item for every job. I suppose it would be a good thing, but that doesn't mean they have to do it.

By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

[Sotek]

I swear, I was literally about to edit in that you'd say this.

By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

Ever heard the saying time is money?

Heck, screw that line of thought, you are aware that what you've just described has always been the case? Vastly slower but you still could have obtained a Relic for free; it would have just taken ages. Get a Linkshell, have someone buy the Hourglass, you take all the currency, donate an appropriate sum of the currency to cover the cost of the Hourglass. You don't pay a dime and obtain the majority of the currency. Quite a few Dynamis Linkshells worked on the basis that one person obtains all the currency and the rest are just their for their Duelist's Chapeau; before you say anything.

Since Relics have always been free, I guess you no longer have any complaint with other jobs obtaining them for free.

[Suirieko]

Just because you spent X million gil on something, it doesn't entitle you to have the weapon twisted to work on any job you want it to work on.

That isn't even what this argument is all about.

This isn't about "any job you want it on" this is about the fact that Dancer has no access to relic weapon, and giving them access to Mandau fixes it. If SE wants to make magian trial to do that. Fine. I'll understand that. I'll even understand if it requires 400 byne bills.

I spent many millions on the PUP attachments. not 100 mil, to be sure, but still a lot. I can't use any of these items on anything but PUP. Does that mean it wasn't worth it? Should these items be made to be useful to everyone else? No. You paid 150 mil to get the best thief/bard/redmage weapon, not the best dancer weapon.

A somewhat poor analogy, I admit, but just because you spent a lot of gil on something, that doesn't mean you can have everything you want.

Completely flawed anology, I will agree. Those are exclusively puppetmaster attachments. The different is. Thief and Dancer are primary dagger weapons, therefore I believe Dancer should have access to it because of that reasoning alone. This is the same with all the other jobs.

So, once again, this isn't about granting access to relic weapons just because they could use the weapon. (IE, Ninja, etc), this is about granting the five newer jobs access to relic weapons because they have no access yet and I feel that it's time that they do. This is about fixing an oversight that SE should've fixed long time ago.

Making relics easier to get makes this less of an issue, not more, in my eye. Everyone who feels they can get a relic is going for one with the understanding of what jobs it can be used on. I don't know anyone who's making a mandau because they think SE will change it so DNC can use it, at least. The sooner they would make new weapons, the sooner people who want a relic for DNC could just switch to that.

See, that's a completely flawed logic there, and is a silly idea. There are already one relic weapon for each type and no more. Why is it that SE have to make new relic weapons, made ONLY for one of each of the five newer jobs. How does it even make sense, especially lore-wise. It doesn't even fit, story-wise.

So far, every argument you have made is a poor argument, and is completely silly. Not one of your argument is sound.

By the by, if you really want to you absolutely CAN get all your currency for free, since dynamis doesn't cost anything anymore. Gil only expidites the process, it's not an absolute necessity.

Never said it doesn't cost gil but it is certainly not "free". Ever heard of the phrase "TANSTAAFL" Aka There aint no such thing as a free lunch. Just because you get free lunch doesn't mean it was free. Efforts were made to get you the free lunch. Efforts were made to make the lunch. SOMEBODY paid for the lunch, and it isn't you that got the free lunch.

This is the same case with relics. No one gets the "relic weapon" for free (Except for Nomad Moogle Bonanza). A LOT of effort put into getting it, whether you paid for it yourself, or whether you farmed up for currencies, or whether the LS farmed up the currencies for you. It was not free.

You don't get the relic for "free" even if you spent not a single gil on it. I personally have farmed up every currencies, with the help of my friends to get the relic weapons, and have spent several million gils to somewhat expedite the process.

I'm getting Mandau for my THF, and I would love to be able to use it on my Dancer as well. Thief and Dancer are two of my three favorite jobs in the game.

I have thought over this for a while and I can't even come up with a reason why Dancer can't use Mandau, as well as other 4 said jobs and the said respective weapons.

Granted, for lore, it's questionable for blue mage, Corsair, and puppetmaster. However, Dancers and Scholars have clearly been involved with the Crystal war, and lore wise, could have been cleary sucked into Dynamis as part of the lost Hydra corps.

Dancers use daggers as a primary weapon, as much as thief does, so Mandau benefits Dancer perfectly. Dancers even have access to Clement Skean, which is the only other weapon that have Mercy Stroke, further justifying that Dancers should be able to use Mandau.

[Insaniac]

Saber Dance!

Derp~ I was thinking Saber Dance was the one that didn't allow you to use sambas and wasn't used that often. There are a lot of situations where you wouldn't be able to use it and it doesn't stack with the trait so it doesn't make a huge difference in the numbers.

[Alhanelem]

How does it even make sense, especially lore-wise. It doesn't even fit, story-wise.

there are plenty of ways you can make up stuff like that. It's a freakin' fantasy world, SE can do whatever it wants.

You'd expect the key representatives of DNC and SCH at least to be using a relic weapon in the crystal war, since there are NPCs wielding the other relics. Adelheid is seen wearing some club in battle. I don't really recognize the model, but it looks unique. The lead NPC in the dancer squad in Pashhow [S] doesn't use a mandau, if I'm recalling correctly. They really wouldn't need to twist the lore much to add in relic weapons for those two. The other three would take more work but they can essentially make up whatever they please.

So whatever you do, don't play the lore card. SE can do whatever they want with the lore. There is lots of lore in the game that doesn't make much sense, especially in WOTG.

Derp~ I was thinking Saber Dance was the one that didn't allow you to use sambas and wasn't used that often.

Fan Dance

[Arcon]

Mathematically it makes sense to let the new jobs join the old relic weapons because of what they are, a categorical partition of the weapon classes ("the best of each weapon"), which would be directly violated by adding new weapons. That's the only rational argument in here, everything else, no matter if well founded or not, is an opinion and not worth arguing about.