SE's stance on Cure V

[Greatguardian]

Let me know when RDM can Curaga IV for free, bro.

Edit: Or at all.

[Moonracer]

Yes, it does take an incredible amount of deliberation to give jobs access to certain spells and how potent it should be.

Wanting to pull out one of the early posts and pull it back out then eh? And actually yes it does take deliberation, because despite everything, it takes balance. Do something too much and it overpowers that particular thing, it unbalances everything else. Alright, lets say they DID give RDM and SCH Cure V, and made its potency equal or even close to WHM, which is what everyone wants it seems. What then? Would RDM be satisfied? No, they wouldnt. RDM wont be satisfied until they're up and over WHM, because of "versatility" they think they deserve to have more credit than WHM. The fact of the matter is that all these RDM's that are bitching about wanting Cure V, are focusing on ONE aspect of the entire damn job. If anyone has someone to blame for rdm's decline (not that there was a decline, people are just blind) its the RDM's themselves for constraining themselves to only one position, and not allowing themselves to accept, and excel elsewhere.

[Lilia]

saevel

BLUs refresh outside abyss

with autorefresh/equip/spell blu can have easy ~8 mp/tick >.< add that to your list

[Lilia]

Wanting to pull out one of the early posts and pull it back out then eh? And actually yes it does take deliberation, because despite everything, it takes balance. Do something too much and it overpowers that particular thing, it unbalances everything else. Alright, lets say they DID give RDM and SCH Cure V, and made its potency equal or even close to WHM, which is what everyone wants it seems. What then? Would RDM be satisfied? No, they wouldnt. RDM wont be satisfied until they're up and over WHM, because of "versatility" they think they deserve to have more credit than WHM. The fact of the matter is that all these RDM's that are bitching about wanting Cure V, are focusing on ONE aspect of the entire damn job. If anyone has someone to blame for rdm's decline (not that there was a decline, people are just blind) its the RDM's themselves for constraining themselves to only one position, and not allowing themselves to accept, and excel elsewhere.

Uhm... you know were in SE´ stance on cure V?

i can start enfeebling or buffs or anything, but this is for a other post.

[Moonracer]

Uhm... you know were in SE´ stance on cure V?

i can start enfeebling or buffs or anything, but this is for a other post.

Ya I know where we're at, if you read back from the beginning, rdms wanna complain here too.

[Ophannus]

Why is SE making it so that WHM is a NECESSARY job? It used to be PLD was a NECESSARY job because no other job could tank. Then SE adjusted NIN and other jobs to make them able to tank too. Since WHM is the only real healer, only WHM are invited to heal. Why should every party >NEED< a WHM but no other job is ever 'NEEDED'. Every party NEEDS a WHM but not evey party NEEDS a RDM or NEEDS a SCH or NEEDS a DRK or DRG. Why can we replace a DD with 17 other DD jobs that do fine but when it comes to healer WHM is the only job? If you need a nuker PUP, SMN and SCH work. If you need a buffer, you have BRD or COR. If you need a DD you have RNG WAR THF DNC MNK BLU DRG DRK SAM BST NIN SAM etc. But when it comes to healer it's WHM or nothing. Even other jobs can tank besides PLD, and while PLD is "THE DESIGNATED MAIN TANK", it's actually the worst tank unless the player has 2 Empyreans-Sword and Shield or an Empyrean Sword+Relic Shield.

[Ophannus]

I get it. WHM IS THE DESIGNATED MAIN HEALER. But then why give them high level Enfeebling but not give the DESIGNATED MAIN ENFEEBLER high level healing? Why can WHM can Addle but RDM can't get Cure V?

By making WHM the only viable healer, you solidify and assure that every party will need one and their spot in an alliance is absolutely assured. No other job in the entire game has that kind of priority. Any other job can be replaced by another job to fill that function almost exactly. A Damage Dealer can be replaced with almost 1 of 17 other jobs. At least 4 or 5 jobs can 'tank'. 2-3 Jobs can be 'buffers'. But when it comes to healers, there's only 1, because WHM are special and even though they're designated healers SE gives them high level nukes and high level enfeebling, but wont give the designated Enfeebler high level healing. If things aren't changed any other mage that subs RDM at 99 can do 99% of anything a RDM can do except gravity or refresh 2 both of which are so niche and situationally useless these days. Refresh 2 is nice for self cast but most mages sub RDM anyway and abuse our full strength convert. 99BRD/48RDM will not only have their marches but also have Haste as well. So RDM is forevr doomed to have nice buffs that it can only cast on itself, absolutely worthless in an endgame alliance.

[Ophannus]

Even DNC BLU and DRG have equivalents of Cure V, so what's the big deal with giving it to RDM and SCH anyway?

[saevel]

saevel

BLUs refresh outside abyss

with autorefresh/equip/spell blu can have easy ~8 mp/tick >.< add that to your list

Well WHM, RDM and SCH all have some forms of self-refresh, that's why I left it out. As a RDM/NIN I have 10mp/tick in idle gear and 7mp/tick in TP gear. Then you start talking about BRD's and RDM's in the same party as the healer, our WHM tends to run around with 20+mp/tick outside abyssea.

This is all about what you can get away with, currently our tank party is PLD PLD RDM BRD WHM <other>. The BRD and RDM (me) are there to support the healer and tanks. What people are wanting is that the RDM gets Cure V and thus you can kick the WHM out for another melee or BRD. This gets very important when you start talking MNK tanks as super buffing them actually makes a difference. The melee parties are usually DD DD DD DD DD WHM, the BLM / SMN party usually has the COR inside it. Giving RDM Cure V will replace the DD's WHM with a RDM.

And to the guy who's practicing selective reading. MP was never the issue with WHM, RDM or SCH for healing. The problem was time. We can only cast a single spell at a time, and those spells tend to have annoying cast / recast times. A RDM can simply do more then a WHM in any given block of time, the WHM still heals better / harder but it was the RDM who could spam Cure IV / III / Haste / Erase / Paralyna / Silena faster (back at 75). Doing so game the RDM player a huge headache and we constantly talked about being "burned out", but LS leaders didn't care about that.

Thus if you give RDM Cure V they'll be able to spam Cure V / Cure IV / <everything else> faster then a WHM can. WHM is still the better healer, RDM becomes the more versatile healer.

[Alhanelem]

I do not feel cure 4 is powerful enough to be any job's primary cure at 95, much less 99. As it stands blue mage and dragoon can consistently produce more powerful cures than rdm, pld, or sch (okay, to be fair sch can top blu, but will eventually run out of stratagems). It would be a stretch to say anyone subbing whm can cure as well as these three affected jobs, but it certainly takes less work to overcome the difference than it ever has in the past. The line between blm/whm and sch in particular seems more blurred than it ought to these days.
I can understand the desire to keep WHM distinct in it's premiere healing capability, but it's getting to the point where it is the ONLY capable healing job -even outside the realm of inflated hp that is abyssea. If cure 5 cannot be given to rdm, sch, and pld then maybe a comparable cure without fixed enmity and a slightly longer recast time would be acceptable? This addition would add the kind of clutch cure you need in a desperate situation while still making it a risk to use, the same way big cures used to be balanced in the old days, with enmity generation.

I won't dispute cure V may be too much given to every healer job, but I adamantly believe cure IV is too little.

I'd just like to quote this, because I think this describes the situation to a T.