SE's stance on Cure V

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Good on S-E for not going down that wannabe-WHM road again. I didn't level RDM for that purpose, nor was it designed that way. Not at 75 and not now. What is needed, as others have suggested, are adjustments that solidify Red Mage's area of expertise, which is Enfeeblement.

S-E made a colossal mess of things in trying to prevent soloers from fighting NMs via immunity to Bind, Gravity, and Sleep. They compounded this with that Tranquil Heart trait, which really should not have been given to Red Mages in the first place (tanking was another part of the job's repertoire until that blunder).

To address the enfeeblement issue, I suggest a RDM-exclusive Job Trait that allows Red Mages the chance to penetrate any and all immunities to Enfeebling Magic (increasing with skill above the natural cap). It would also be great if Saboteur could double the duration of enfeebles as well as their effects.

The modifications to Healing Magic skill and MND will suffice so long as the skill rate is increased to reflect its value.

No it was designed as an in-between, middle type job, and as fair as curing and most jobs actually a RDM is as in the middle as a Rock to Mount Kilimanjaro. Cure IV was fine at 75, at 99 it will not be no matter what SE decide. I'd rather they just remove curing from RDM if this is truly what they believe.

Tranquil Heart didn't kill RDM tanking, the gimp to things like Blind and Gravity did, Tranquil Heart just furthered it.

A chance wouldn't fix RDM enfeebling. No one will take a job for a random, probably ~5%, chance of it hitting. They need multiple things such as:

1. UNIQUE enfeebles, as in RDM only, non merit system. Every other job that excels at something has unique spells. Passing them to every job, and any job is an insult.
   
2. NM Enfeebling immunity needs to die. If they have an issue with enfeebling to the NM's making them near worthless, weaken the enfeebles on NM's. I'd rather them hitting and crippling them a little rather than them being completely immune.
   
3. Make skill impact the potency as well as having a bigger impact on the accuracy this then puts RDM much further ahead of other jobs.

[Lilia]

What I've been saying the entire time, all people really care about is Cure V, haste, and status removal. That is all that's needed to main heal. Everything else just makes it easier / more MP efficient, but as we've seen in the past players couldn't care how inefficient or how hard the RDM / SCH / SMN has to work, they dont' care the stress level on the healer, they only care that the healer can put out Cures and put them out fast.

I can go BLU/WHM - i have cure5, curega4, erase ,erasega, -na, haste anyone want invite me as main healer for endgame?

[cidbahamut]

Cure VI-fairly meh spell
Cureskin- Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Curagas-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Sacrifice-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
the fastest nas /erases-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
best barspells by far-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea-ok
auspice (moderately useful)-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
divine caress (moderately useful)-meh
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs-ok
Hexa strike-LOL????
Sacrosanctity -very nice, hardly a game changer on a 10 minute recast.

To me not enough has changed since 75 to be sure that if SE gave Cure V to scholar and red mage that the ToAU attitude towards white mage wouldn't return. I think scholar is a greater danger to white mage than red mage though. I have Red mage now up high and it feels very weak on aoe healing. I guess SE doesn't want to chance it though.

You need to expand your horizons beyond exp parties.

[saevel]

I can go BLU/WHM - i have cure5, curega4, erase ,erasega, -na, haste anyone want invite me as main healer for endgame?

I know your joking, but I've actually main healed as BLU/WHM. It's easily the second best healer in the game, easily. It has two issues, first being BLU heals are only party castable but honestly in a tank party this is a non-issue, and second is that the player base has gotten used to BLU being a "DD ONRY" for so long, they have serious issues thinking about it as a healer. There is even a Cure Pot +10% sword out now that a BLU can off hand, meaning they don't have to switch out to a light staff for main healing.

BLU/WHM has

Magic Fruit
P.Embrace
Cure IV

Erase
all -na's
Erasega (WHM doesn't even get this)

Curaga / Curaga II (remote light aoe healing / waking ppl up)
Healing Breeze (Super cheap Curaga II)
White Wind (HP based heavy curaga)

Diamond Hide (Stoneskinga)

Seriously BLU's are insanely good at healing. Their just too busy QQing about SE "hating" them to realize it. Or they do realize it and are scared sh!tless to be pushed into a healing role.

[saevel]

IMO. Cure 5 should be left to WHM. However, RDM should gain access to higher tier Regen spells. That way RDM can heal people but it won't become just another healer.

Honestly, the design behind RDM needs a serious adjustments in what it does best Enfeebling.
The design team should focus on improving RDM's ability to not only land Enfeebles but it should also cast more unique RDM only Enfeebling spells.

Some things I think RDM needs is a Trait that increases a high lvl RDM's ability to land spells or even a RDM only M.acc spell. Even a Enfeebling spell that lowers the damage a target's TP move would do or a spell that lowers M.atk would be greatly sought after for high level fights such as VW.

While I do agree that RDM in it's current state of the game is lacking in all areas I really do think its focus should stay with Enfeebling magic instead of taking the chance with it becoming a wanna be WHM.

Well SE is currently in the process of rebuilding / re-tweaking RDM. In the past the player based focused ONLY on RDM's white magic side via the healing magic skill. RDM was known for three things (Haste, Refresh, Cure IV) and none of them are affected by skill. SE gave RDM Tier IV nukes, MAB III and Magic Burst Bonus along with tons of nuking stats on our emperian armor, that was SE fixing the Black Magic side of RDM. Now SE's looking at the WAR side, Temper and possibly WS adjustments, their also slowly letting us back on melee gear. Their adjusting the healing magic formula for SCH, whatever RDM gets out of it will be a windfall. SE wants SCH to do the white magic stuff that RDM use to be forced into doing, Healing / Hasting / Refreshing. They even went so far as to redesign Regen's for SCH, their now short duration but pretty high HP/tick, the same thing we asked SE to do for us.

Their also talking about doing more to buff up RDM's enfeebles, but honestly there is a serious issue here. Anything complicated or *awesome* would immediately be nerfed on HNM's and thus put into the "awesome but impractical" category. Break / Gravity / Bind are prime examples of this. Best approach would be to make simple stat reduction enfeebles, very little room for them to screw it up and not a big enough effect to make HNMs immune to them.

Guys, stop thinking of RDM as a main healer, it won't ever be that ever again. SE has plainly stated this. If you want to be a main healer then you have WHM, BLU and to a lessor extend SCH to look at.

[BurnNotice]

You only went on to notice only one thing they said. They are releasing more cure potency gear, yes. BUT, they also said that they was going to make adjustments to the way MND and Healing skill affects cure potency. Meaning that even without gear, their changes will innately increase the amount cured per spell.




It appears you don't know what it takes to be a Dev for any game. The way people complain, yall expect developers to just jump on it and be able to do it instantly sometimes. Well they are right, in the case that theres a reason why WHM is the only job with Cure V, or VI. Its main purpose is healing. RDM is enfeebling, SCH is enhancing and buffs. simple as that. Accept it and move on. I mean hell, many people want PLD to have Cure V and Shell V (myself included), but for the same reasons, there is a purpose in not having PLD accessible to these. Accept your roles, adapt accordingly, and rediscover what the jobs are for.

Yes, it does take an incredible amount of deliberation to give jobs access to certain spells and how potent it should be.

[Siiri]

You need to expand your horizons beyond exp parties.

I go through this list on every Cure V topic. Yes whm was the go to healer at 75 of mega bosses, Odin, Ultima, Omega, Khimera, Cerb, Tiamat, etc. However, many other end games activities was rdm only. Salvage = rdm only. Was that not end game? My first limbus group forbid white mages in the farming tiers. Likewise, my einherjar group had during their intro web page-we will only use red mage healers in the wings. No white mages allowed. (Basically this, it also said einherjar parties are setup like colibri parties-no white mages) How many missions through the levels were white mages preferred. I told the story before of how our white mage was not allowed to do airship. (Wasn't me, I was the black mage)

I never used white mage to xp, I solo'd puddings at 75, and on the way to 99 we been gold boxing various emperyeon weapons. I don't feel the need to flag up and do worms with people I don't know.

[Dantedmc]

That was because Whm had mp issues at 75. After /sch and solace it became better and now no mage has mp issues at this time. Whm can get up to 7tic gear refresh, +2 pants, and refresh / convert from rdm or arts / strategems / cmp from sch. There is obviously unlimited mp in abyssea, but even in voidwatch now you get 2x lucid ethers and 2x manapowders as long as you have the correct KIs. These get restored everytime you get a hq proc and one may be restored from a nq proc. All other events whm definitely isn't running out of mp.

[saevel]

That was because Whm had mp issues at 75. After /sch and solace it became better and now no mage has mp issues at this time. Whm can get up to 7tic gear refresh, +2 pants, and refresh / convert from rdm or arts / strategems / cmp from sch. There is obviously unlimited mp in abyssea, but even in voidwatch now you get 2x lucid ethers and 2x manapowders as long as you have the correct KIs. These get restored everytime you get a hq proc and one may be restored from a nq proc. All other events whm definitely isn't running out of mp.

It wasn't MP issues, get off the MP train. WHM's were used if they were available but the demand was on RDM's for the simple reason that a RDM could do everything a WHM could do and then some. The fact that the RDM had to bust their a$$ and about fry their brain's wasn't even an afterthought to the party and LS leaders. Give a WHM, RDM and SCH infinite MP and Cure V and the RDM or SCH will be chosen every time for the simple reason that they are more versatile. White Mage can heal and only heal, they heal the best, they head the hardest, they heal the fastest, but in the end they only heal. If a RDM, SCH, or hell even SMN can heal, not the best, not the hardest, not the fastest, but if it's *enough* for a victory, then they'll be chosen over a WHM. Players do this for the same reason they did BLM/BRD in abyssea. A BRD can proc a bard's song weakness better then any BLM, yet you didn't see abyssea farming groups looking for BRDs. Instead they said "well, a BLM/BRD can do it well enough that we don't need the BRD, more loot for us". SCH's are now going apesh!t that SE is giving helix's to /SCH. Their not complaining about other jobs actually using them, their complaining because they might lose their position in /shout Voidwatch groups to BLM/SCH's.

That is how FFXI works in reality. Players will try to get by with the absolute least support possible for any event, they will seek the fastest method to achieve more loot, they do not care what jobs are good / not good at, only what they can be made to do. ToAU RDM wasn't about RDM being a "better" healer, it was about RDM being able to do enough healing to win while contributing more (haste / refresh cycles).

[Dantedmc]

It wasn't MP issues, get off the MP train. WHM's were used if they were available but the demand was on RDM's for the simple reason that a RDM could do everything a WHM could do and then some. The fact that the RDM had to bust their a$$ and about fry their brain's wasn't even an afterthought to the party and LS leaders. Give a WHM, RDM and SCH infinite MP and Cure V and the RDM or SCH will be chosen every time for the simple reason that they are more versatile. White Mage can heal and only heal, they heal the best, they head the hardest, they heal the fastest, but in the end they only heal. If a RDM, SCH, or hell even SMN can heal, not the best, not the hardest, not the fastest, but if it's *enough* for a victory, then they'll be chosen over a WHM. Players do this for the same reason they did BLM/BRD in abyssea. A BRD can proc a bard's song weakness better then any BLM, yet you didn't see abyssea farming groups looking for BRDs. Instead they said "well, a BLM/BRD can do it well enough that we don't need the BRD, more loot for us". SCH's are now going apesh!t that SE is giving helix's to /SCH. Their not complaining about other jobs actually using them, their complaining because they might lose their position in /shout Voidwatch groups to BLM/SCH's.

That is how FFXI works in reality. Players will try to get by with the absolute least support possible for any event, they will seek the fastest method to achieve more loot, they do not care what jobs are good / not good at, only what they can be made to do. ToAU RDM wasn't about RDM being a "better" healer, it was about RDM being able to do enough healing to win while contributing more (haste / refresh cycles).

What exactly is sch going to contribute that makes it more viable than whm. It's not like sch can nuke and heal at the same time nor does it have all the black / white magic procs so you will need a whm and blm anyway. What is rdm gonna do throw out some debuffs / refresh II ? Please tell me these amazing things that will somehow make rdm and sch completely overtake whm.

Your last part really baffles me. You say it wasn't an mp issue then you turn around and say rdm contributed more with haste / refresh. Well whm had haste and refresh is all about mp. You also need enough mp to keep throwing out haste while performing all of your other duties. It was ALL about mp. Refresh and convert allowed rdm to sustain it's mp pool longer than any other mage unsupported. Whm before /sch and solace had 1 tic refresh from nobles tunic.