Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Atomic_Skull]

RDM should get access to Twastar because it would make an excellent offhand weapon for Almace for melee RDM/NIN

[Zagen]

RDM should get access to Twastar because it would make an excellent offhand weapon for Almace for melee RDM/NIN

I hope you're trolling...

[Briarb19]

SE has given DNC too much of THF's stuff already. No more please.

Mandau is arguably no more powerful than Twashtar, so adding DNC would have literally zero impact on job balance between the two. Simply preferring DNC not be on it 'just because' should not be considered a valid reason for not adding the TOAU/WoG jobs to the relic weapons.

[Sparthos]

The PUP argument on Spharai just doesn't add up. Counter is going to be broken? For crying out loud it's a relic weapon, you should be at a clear advantage over non-relics.

With the advent of Almace, the Excalibur excuse no longer adds up either. Chant is superior to KoR and both weapons are longswords.

[Aana]

As soon as they added relic armor to dynamis, any lore based reason to exclude new jobs from relic weapons got debunked.

The weapon class distinctions have all been incredibly blurred. Almace is anything but a scimitar (excuse me 'curved blade' in SE words). Dnc used to be excluded from daggers. Now they can use Fusettos, auric dagger, clement skean, magnus dagger among others. They can even use the new Harpe class daggers which were exclusively thf/war.

Long story short, the more subtle weapon class distinctions have been completely blurred and are at this point a completely irrational reason to exclude classes from relics.

I cant imagine what would be so evil about putting cor on annihilator etc. None of the weapons in question are absurdly powerful in those jobs hands. Spharai just seems wierd on pup because the effect has nothing to do with pup in the slightest. Thats my only little gripe, but toss on some puppet buff and its fine.

[Hashmalum]

RDM should get access to Twastar because it would make an excellent offhand weapon for Almace for melee RDM/NIN

You realize that relic-class weapons get no bonuses whatsoever when wielded off-hand, right? This was announced back when mythics were added, so people can't use a relic in one hand and a mythic in the other.

[Atomic_Skull]

Mandau is arguably no more powerful than Twashtar, so adding DNC would have literally zero impact on job balance between the two. Simply preferring DNC not be on it 'just because' should not be considered a valid reason for not adding the TOAU/WoG jobs to the relic weapons.

Relics are going to get another update at 99 while empyreans will most likely just get a bit of extra DMG and +stat like they did at 95.

You realize that relic-class weapons get no bonuses whatsoever when wielded off-hand, right? This was announced back when mythics were added, so people can't use a relic in one hand and a mythic in the other.

That only applies to relics and mythics. When equipped offhand Empyreans give their +stat bonus. Was tested and proven on BG a while ago. Besides which Twastar is the highest DPS weapon RDM/NIN could equip offhand, so it would be worth upgrading just for that alone.

[Aana]

Relics are going to get another update at 99 while empyreans will most likely just get a bit of extra DMG and +stat like they did at 95.

Sorry, but this is nothing but speculation unless you have secret insider information from SE. As its speculation, it is not a valid basis for argument. As it currently stands, there would be no significant difference between a twash dnc and a Mandau dnc. The weapons are near clones of each other. As a main thf from the day i started nearly 8 years ago, I feel the sting of the dnc vs thf thing, believe me i do and have often voiced distress over dnc stepping on thf's toes. But this is one where i feel otherwise. Twashtar is arguably MORE powerful in the hands of a dnc than mandau anyway. When they gave dnc and thf twash, any balance reason to exclude from mandau was tossed out the window.

But more on topic, I cannot really find any actual reason why 'new' jobs cannot be included. Dnc and sch (lore wise) are even in their prime during the war when the relic weapons were actually used. They are from the SAME geographic place and time. There was no reason to exclude those 2 jobs in the 1st place. Balance wise, lets check for a sec:

Anni: Cor. Not in any way game breaking. Wildfire is already far more powerful in cor hands anyway and shares a related 'low hate' idea (though anni's is more potent in that regard)

Mandau: Dnc. Clone of Twash and dnc doesnt get quite as much str gear as thf anyway. If twash isnt IMBA neither is mandau. Comon, BARD can use this for crying out loud.

Sword: Blu. KotR is weak. Almace debunked 'curved sword' idea. Blu already has an HP-related function with breath attacks. I cant wait to see HP build blus doing breath damage and light damage :P

Spharai: Pup. Far weaker than mythic and Empy in raw power for pups. Counter is a little off beat for pup, but not a deal breaker. Could use an automaton buff of some kind. Heck just give the counter to the puppet for melee frame and its cool.

Claustrum/Mjollnir: Sch. C+ in both weapon classes but lets be honest. Both of these weapons are terrible anyway so i really couldnt care less which one has sch on it. This would only be for completion's sake.

So what are the reasons NOT to have it:

*Balance issues: None of these weapons will break a job from a balance standpoint. The most 'useful' one would be cor on Anni and that is certainly not game breaking in the slightest.

*Lore!: 2 of these jobs are designed during the time and place of the weapons and should be included on that basis alone. Relic armor somehow made it into the other dimension for Cor/pup/blu. Not really holding much water at this point.

*Wrong weapon type (Dnc dagger, longsword blu etc): The subtle weapon class distinctions have been completely undone since 75 removing that argument in its entirety.
-Blu has lots of 'longswords' now. Magian and otherwise.
-Dnc has daggers and even harps out the wazoo (mentioned in previous post).
-Pup is 'generally' excluded from knuckle and cesti weapons, but can still have pup only knuckles (scogan's knuckles), and a number of others from 75 and up (pugulists, simian fists etc). 90+ They even get on every new cesti class h2h. 90+ the only weapons they CANT use are mnk mythic and relic.

Also, ALL those jobs can use the weapons giving the WS which are of the same type as the relic itself which universallly undoes the 'weapon type' idea. They can even get the WS.

TLDR: I have not actually heard any logical reason why the new jobs should be excluded at this point.

[Alhanelem]

Just another QQ thread about how this or that relic the player already owns isn't useable on some other job they leveled. JUst get the (#$^% empyrean, it's not like it isn't better anyway. I'm getting tired of the periodic "wah wah it's not fair <job> can't use <relic>!"

Some relics's weapon categories aren't strictly compatible with the category a job uses.

TLDR: I have not actually heard any logical reason why the new jobs need to be included at this point. Who honestly cares? In basically every case of a relic that's not available on a new job, the empyrean is better anyway.

It is extremely rare for jobs to be added to gear after the fact. Each time new jobs came out, they were only added to existing gear in accordance with the category of armor they would typically wear. Anything that broke with that tradition was generally added after the job came out with that job already on it. There is minimal precendent, if any, of jobs being added to any gear after the release of the job.

Out of new jobs, my main is PUP. I don't even want spharai on it. Empy would be better, and I don't even want the weapon skill either. Final Heaven or Victory Smite? VS walks all over FH. Why bother adding the jobs when the relic isn't even better than the other strong options? You basically covered all that for me- there's no reason to have them for the jobs that can't other than "completionists" sake. But how is it even being "completionist" if those weapons aren't applicable to the job anyway?

[Hashmalum]

TLDR: I have not actually heard any logical reason why the new jobs need to be included at this point.

Ever notice how whenever this guy wants some feature or other, it's always we who have to prove to him why it shouldn't be done, but whenever we want some feature and he doesn't, suddenly we're the ones who need to prove something to him?