One Tank Job Out of 20 Is Bad Game Design

[Draylo]

I wasn't aware PLD was useful for anything aside from tanking the adds in Zilart areas.

Do people actually use it for something else? lol

Oh yeah? You don't use a PLD to tank the NMs? Cool, that's interesting.

[Zagen]

Endgame is what ever it takes the high levels do bro. Abyssea was/still is endgame. I don't know why you don't consider it to be.

Because a level 60 can solo a NM with a brew. Because most NMs in Abyssea can be soloed without a brew, extra people are only brought along for the procs, zerg after procs, you want to spend time with friends even though they aren't "needed", or because the skill/gear/atma is lacking to solo.

Because we haven't reached the new endgame limit (99) so abyssea was placeholder at best, I already pointed this out.

Things you plan to do are not events in this context. Events in this context means content players get together for. Not simple grinding.

I'm not, and they're not. I was just playing along with your fallacious logic.

If you plan something with more than 1 player like in my example then players are getting together...

To him, the event has to be super mega hard to be endgame. Not that many NMs in abyssea aren't difficult without a brew.

VW is super mega hard? Neo Dynamis is super mega hard?

Sorry nothing in Abyssea is hard, maybe before people learned how NMs worked but not now. Brews are only there to chain kill, speed up a kill in a small man group, or for the hell of it. If you need a brew to kill anything in abyssea then I don't know what to say really.

[svengalis]

Because a level 60 can solo a NM with a brew. Because most NMs in Abyssea can be soloed without a brew, extra people are only brought along for the procs, zerg after procs, you want to spend time with friends even though they aren't "needed", or because the skill/gear/atma is lacking to solo.

Because we haven't reached the new endgame limit (99) so abyssea was placeholder at best, I already pointed this out.


If you plan something with more than 1 player like in my example then players are getting together...



VW is super mega hard? Neo Dynamis is super mega hard?

Sorry nothing in Abyssea is hard, maybe before people learned how NMs worked but not now. Brews are only there to chain kill, speed up a kill in a small man group, or for the hell of it. If you need a brew to kill anything in abyssea then I don't know what to say really.

So you don't brew Rani, Apademak, Shinryu, Pantokrato... what server are you on I need to join your LS.

[Zagen]

So you don't brew Rani, Apademak, Shinryu, Pantokrato... what server are you on I need to join your LS.

Need to brew? No. Brew to speed kill? Yes. They aren't the same thing, if you answer yes to "need to brew" then its no wonder your LS is doing VW with 1 player who's leveled PLD and why you're crying about PLD being needed is flawed game design.

[Rearden]

I've 2boxd all of those except Apademak lol. no brew.

[Greatguardian]

So you don't brew Rani, Apademak, Shinryu, Pantokrato... what server are you on I need to join your LS.

None of those mobs are particularly difficult =/ I've killed them all without brews. Brews are just faster, especially when you have multiple pops lined up. There is no reason not to Wildfire Brew things like Apademak and Dragua for Emp items to save time.

It's always been a fair consensus that Abyssea is casual content, pure and simple. Call it "Endgame" if you really want to, it's still casual content. Voidwatch is not casual content. Neo Dynamis NMs are not casual content. Thus, since 80-90% of the playerbase is casual, 80-90% of the posters on this board don't do this content. That doesn't mean that the content is unpopular or bad, it just means it's not casual-friendly. That's fine with me.

Casuals have an extremely large event that they can do solo if need be, and make consistent, if slow, progress on a lot of nice gear. Hardcore players now, after a very long time without content, have a fun and challenging endgame event for them to do.

However, it will always follow that events tailored for the hardcore playerbase are harder than events tailored for the casual playerbase. If that means requiring a casual or "average" group to use Paladins in order to survive it, that's what they're stuck with. If Voidwatch is straight up too difficult, then maybe the group in question would just be happier doing casual content. Different strokes for different folks. Voidwatch was not designed for everyone, nor should it have been. It's for hardcore players who need fun and challenging content in order to remain interested.

There's absolutely no point in entertaining Analhelm's nitpicking about the definition of Endgame. We all know that Voidwatch and Abyssea are nowhere close to comparable, because they were designed around the resources and abilities of two very different groups of people. If "Casual" players want harder content, they should stop being casual and do harder content. If "Hardcore" players think Voidwatch is too difficult without 9001 Paladins, they should stop being "Hardcore" and do easier content until they have the means to do hardcore content.

[Alhanelem]

Sorry nothing in Abyssea is hard

Maybe if your favorite job is one of the three most popular or you are a godly pro nothing in abyssea is hard, but for the 99% of us who aren't godly pros, there are plenty of decent challenges to be had in abyssea.

Please go beat shinryu without using a brew then tell me nothing in abyssea is "hard." There are many NMs that you can't kid around with. The average player is not going to beat Rani or some of the other higher end NMs in abyssea without a brew or without great difficulty. Maybe *you* find nothing in abyssea to be challenging, but there are challenges to be had for people who aren't as ultra pro elite as you.

[Zagen]

Maybe if your favorite job is one of the three most popular or you are a godly pro nothing in abyssea is hard, but for the 99% of us who aren't godly pros, there are plenty of decent challenges to be had in abyssea.

Please go beat shinryu without using a brew then tell me nothing in abyssea is "hard." There are many NMs that you can't kid around with. The average player is not going to beat Rani or some of the other higher end NMs in abyssea without a brew or without great difficulty. Maybe *you* find nothing in abyssea to be challenging, but there are challenges to be had for people who aren't as ultra pro elite as you.

ITT: Leveling jobs takes forever. Learning how to be competent on your non-favorite job is impossible.

First time I cleared Shinryu was with a bunch of pink and perle DDs with a WHM healer and a BLU healer (me) no brew was used because while going for Red and Blue !! we ended up taking off enough damage. Didn't end up getting Red that run.

If Abyssea challenges you that's cool. Don't come into a thread about content designed for players who wanted a greater challenge than Abyssea had to offer expecting pleas to make it easier to be welcome with open arms.

Oh and for the record my favorite jobs are COR, BLU, PLD, and BST. None of those are prime jobs for abyssea, that didn't stop me from leveling the jobs that were so I could get what I wanted done efficiently.

[Lokithor]

Maybe I'm just too old school for the current generation, endgame equated to an event that required skill and people to be at level cap. When you joined an endgame LS it wasn't a merit party LS it was an LS after gods, relics, HNMs. You know things that actually required decent skill and gear, things that the "casual/social" players needed to step up their game to do.

Just about fell out of my chair laughing at this one, sorry. None of the events listed required anything like decent skill and gear. It required routine strategies, claim bots and a tolerance for mind numbing, repetitive time sinks.

Hurray for SE! VW will soon become a skill-less routine and the requirement for 1500 Heavy Metal Plates is SE's way of returning to the good old days of mind numbing, repetitive time sinks, thus meeting the requirement to be called "End Game" in some people's eyes.

[Alhanelem]

ITT: Leveling jobs takes forever. Learning how to be competent on your non-favorite job is impossible.

ITT: People making up things people said in this thread that they didn't.

Some people don't want to play some jobs. People want to play what they find to be fun. No one said leveling took forever.

I'm fully competent on the jobs I enjoy playing. I'm not a super uber elite, but I'm "competent."

Different things provide challenge to different people. Just because something isn't hard for *you* doesn't mean it isn't hard for somebody. Difficulty doesn't define endgame. If you had to be come an elitist and level all 20 jobs to make something easy, then it's not easy. It took a lot of work for you to gain power over the content.

Don't come into a thread about content designed for players who wanted a greater challenge

They can't make something that's a substantially greater challenge than abyssea without making it something that 99% of the playerbase won't be able to complete. Some Voidewatch content and some of the new additions to Dynamis and WoE are perfectly good challenges. There is not a lack of challenges to be had in this game. I'm sorry, but unleess you're a super god, there are things in the game that have challenge to them. Not everyone has an elitist linkshell with an entire team of players that all play their job to absolute perfection.

The bar for what is challenging should not be set at "What someone who has leveled every job to 95 and has good gear for all of those jobs and has mastered all the ins and outs of all of those jobs would find challenging." It should be set at what the typical player who has at least one max level job would find interesting.