One Tank Job Out of 20 Is Bad Game Design

[Daniel]

Because anyone can level pld it seems perfectly legit. its not like the other people in your LS don't have plds, and if somehow they don't, a week in Abyssinia can fix that both gear wise and level wise.

[Zagen]

Nope, why bother with PLD when they are next to useless in Abyssea and before VW Abyssea was current endgame.

If by endgame you mean because you could do it at the respective level caps and there wasn't any real endgame for a while then I'd agree with you. Abyssea was "endgame" for players who wanted it to feel that way because in reality it didn't actually require any heavy level of skill or real coordination.

Don't get me wrong I love Abyssea for this type of game play but it wasn't endgame. Heck doing VNM trials low-man has provided more of a challenge and requirement for strategies than Abyssea ever did for my trio.

[Alhanelem]

Abyssea was "endgame" for players who wanted it to feel that way because in reality it didn't actually require any heavy level of skill or real coordination.

"endgame" isn't "super hard content." "endgame" is "content that you do at the end of the game. Which, abyssea is. Technically it's endgame. Is there much that's hard about it? Not really. Doesn't mean it's not endgame though.

[hiko]

Because anyone can level pld it seems perfectly legit. its not like the other people in your LS don't have plds, and if somehow they don't, 2days in Abyssinia can fix that both gear wise and level wise.

ftfy!
we talk about a 17man shell (the pld left). they can easily get >3 geared PLD (w/o Ochain) in few days

[Zagen]

"endgame" isn't "super hard content." "endgame" is "content that you do at the end of the game. Which, abyssea is. Technically it's endgame. Is there much that's hard about it? Not really. Doesn't mean it's not endgame though.

So you considered merit parties at 75 endgame events? By your definition anything you and/or your group decides to wait until level cap to do is "endgame".

Edit: To be clear I understand you want endgame to mean anything you wait until the end of the game to do but it has never been that broad of a definition to the player base at least none of the players I've gone with, interacted with on forums from social to hardcore players.

[svengalis]

So you considered merit parties at 75 endgame events? By your definition anything you and/or your group decides to wait until level cap to do is "endgame".

Edit: To be clear I understand you want endgame to mean anything you wait until the end of the game to do but it has never been that broad of a definition to the player base at least none of the players I've gone with, interacted with on forums from social to hardcore players.

If Abyssea was not end game excuse me but what other High level content was there to do? Dynamis? Limbus? Sky? Sea? Salvage? Hardly anyone does that anymore.

[Alhanelem]

So you considered merit parties at 75 endgame events?

Sure, why not. I personally label it grinding instea, because a merit party isn't an "event," it's just killing random monsters. But whatever suits you for the sake of this argument.

The point is, endgame isn't specifically tied to difficulty. It is tied to an event that normally expects you to have a job/class at the highest level.

[Zagen]

If Abyssea was not end game excuse me but what other High level content was there to do? Dynamis? Limbus? Sky? Sea? Salvage? Hardly anyone does that anymore.

Since you missed it:

If by endgame you mean because you could do it at the respective level caps and there wasn't any real endgame for a while then I'd agree with you. Abyssea was "endgame" for players who wanted it to feel that way because in reality it didn't actually require any heavy level of skill or real coordination.

Sure, why not. I personally label it grinding instea, because a merit party isn't an "event," it's just killing random monsters. But whatever suits you for the sake of this argument.

The point is, endgame isn't specifically tied to difficulty. It is tied to an event that normally expects you to have a job/class at the highest level.

If you schedule every Mon/Wed/Fri from 6pm to 10pm is Merit time, doesn't that make it an event your LS does?

You're the first person to ever tell me merit parties were endgame... BTW you could go any job at 75 to merit parties there were lots of different setups some better than others but merit parties never required a specific job. As to the levels some jobs didn't even have to be at 75, a level 48 RDM, 55 SCH, 41 WHM was enough of a healer, a level 49 COR was enough for buffs? Sure they got crap EXP but it didn't mean that they didn't function or weren't seen in merit parties.

Maybe I'm just too old school for the current generation, endgame equated to an event that required skill and people to be at level cap. When you joined an endgame LS it wasn't a merit party LS it was an LS after gods, relics, HNMs. You know things that actually required decent skill and gear, things that the "casual/social" players needed to step up their game to do.

[svengalis]

Since you missed it:





If you schedule every Mon/Wed/Fri from 6pm to 10pm is Merit time, doesn't that make it an event your LS does?

You're the first person to ever tell me merit parties were endgame... BTW you could go any job at 75 to merit parties there were lots of different setups some better than others but merit parties never required a specific job. As to the levels some jobs didn't even have to be at 75, a level 48 RDM, 55 SCH, 41 WHM was enough of a healer, a level 49 COR was enough for buffs? Sure they got crap EXP but it didn't mean that they didn't function or weren't seen in merit parties.

Maybe I'm just too old school for the current generation, endgame equated to an event that required skill and people to be at level cap. When you joined an endgame LS it wasn't a merit party LS it was an LS after gods, relics, HNMs. You know things that actually required decent skill and gear, things that the "casual/social" players needed to step up their game to do.

Endgame is what ever it takes the high levels do bro. Abyssea was/still is endgame. I don't know why you don't consider it to be.

[Alhanelem]

If you schedule every Mon/Wed/Fri from 6pm to 10pm is Merit time, doesn't that make it an event your LS does?

Things you plan to do are not events in this context. Events in this context means content players get together for. Not simple grinding.

You're the first person to ever tell me merit parties were endgame...

I'm not, and they're not. I was just playing along with your fallacious logic.

Grinding is not an event. Abyssea, Dynamis, Einherjar, Salvage, Limbus, etc. are events. For the most part, I still consider them all endgame, though only Dynamis and Abyssea in this example list contain content specifically made for max level.

Endgame is what ever it takes the high levels do bro. Abyssea was/still is endgame. I don't know why you don't consider it to be.

To him, the event has to be super mega hard to be endgame. Not that many NMs in abyssea aren't difficult without a brew.