FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto [Blue Mage]

[Scuro]

It's a better DD mage than all the others, but it's still a Hybrid so... inferior to the actual jobs.

We are the better DD mage, solely for the fact that we are the DD mage. The only one that would be arguably close is SMN because in some occasions they choose to melee next to their avatars (rarely anymore now).

This job can be set at a level that can contend with a WAR, SAM, DRG with out tipping it over. That isn't a stretch of the imagination. While before I argued that BLU's weakness in HNMs honestly didn't mean much because most gear from HNMs were not very desirable by BLU's, yet now that has changed and my attention is brought back to this issue. The content is changing, and we can't stay in Abyssea forever (or hell this game will just fall apart), and as it stands, unless BLU has some proc'n niche or again something only it can do, it will fall to the way side with out a doubt. Atmas and Cruor Buffs can only go so far.

[Defiledsickness]

well you can count dnc as a blu rival or nin. dnc has better survivability, nin has better tanking, and blu is the better DD. imo of course. thf really is just TH now, rng still is good at... ranged. and cor/sam/drg/blm etc are great damage (with almost no healing). so i mean, pros and cons to everything.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did... did you just call blu a better DD than NIN? Am I reading that right?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

We are the better DD mage, solely for the fact that we are the DD mage. The only one that would be arguably close is SMN because in some occasions they choose to melee next to their avatars (rarely anymore now).

This job can be set at a level that can contend with a WAR, SAM, DRG with out tipping it over. That isn't a stretch of the imagination. While before I argued that BLU's weakness in HNMs honestly didn't mean much because most gear from HNMs were not very desirable by BLU's, yet now that has changed and my attention is brought back to this issue. The content is changing, and we can't stay in Abyssea forever (or hell this game will just fall apart), and as it stands, unless BLU has some proc'n niche or again something only it can do, it will fall to the way side with out a doubt. Atmas and Cruor Buffs can only go so far.

Two things..

1. No BLU "MAGE" should never compete with a DD who's only ability is to DD, improving BLU anymore in melee would do exactly that.

2. LOL SUMMONER!?! are you serious!!!! (PS. Summoner isn't a Mage)

[Afania]

Did... did you just call blu a better DD than NIN? Am I reading that right?

If you're in Heroes zone and DD on a higher lv NM, most likely NIN is a better DD than BLU, since they attack way faster and has higher DPS, and blue magic spell dmg sucked on them.

If you're doing old lv 75 content like Einherjar/Nyzul/Salvage etc, it's hard for a NIN to out DD BLU when blue magic spell rape stuff in those areas, and new Azure lord 2hr update murders Nyzul Floor boss/Salvage chariot etc.

They're pretty much on the same lv IMO, in different situation it may be stronger than another.

[Afania]

While I have always said this class should never overshadow another class, this class is the TRUE DD MAGE. Its I'm willing to bet that 85% of the BLU community AT LEAST is a DD, therefore we should be on par with other DDs. Right now we have a nice spot light because we can do things that only our job can do, but if that were to change, if new content were introduced or made extremely relevant, many of us would be back to where we were. Solo'n in campaign and imps in the mire. I believe that is what these people are trying to get at, that we can shred fodder mobs like they are nothing, but when it comes to the big kahunas, we got nothing. The spells of HNMs in the days were breaths and cannonball SATACA, and even that was sheer garbage in comparison to other DDs.

How's SATA cannonball "Sheer garbage" in comparision to other DDs in the old days, when it's ranged + can transfer enmity. Other DD is either ranged but generates tones of enmity(such as RNG), or can transfer enmity but not ranged(SAM/THF). There are other options like SMN but I don't think it is that good to a point to make cannonball sheer garbage(Avatar still dies from AoE, and it doesn't transfer enmity to the tank).

Do I miss any other good DD option to replace cannonball and makes it garbage on strong NMs with AoE?

For Blue Mage to find a place in newer content it needs to have something which makes it into a specialist. However, at the same time you risk the job becoming over dominant. Or rather, LV75 Red Mage.


Now unfortunately there are many jobs in this position. DNC, DRK, DRG, PUP, BST, COR and THF all suffer from lack of speciality.

When we have 20 jobs I guess it's inevitable that some jobs has to be replaceable. But THF is just fine really, ppl always whined about TH, which is THF's specility. And it will always has it's place unless one day TH isn't important anymore.

Also I thought BST is currently the best dynamis currency solo job and DRG is nice to have(Although I'm not sure replacing a DRG with Ukon WAR may yield better result or not) for Angon when you zerg?


I remember when BLU can trigger 2 yellow proc in Abyssea and an efficent job to farm blue chests, ppl complained about how BLU is needed for abyssea because they don't want to spend extra time to find a BLU. I personally don't want BLU to be "useful" in VW because of proc(proc is really a dumb way to make a job useful....plenty of jobs can duo KI NMs in Abyssea just fine, but we all use NIN because of red proc). SE mentioned they want BLU's role to be "Veritable shape shifters on the battlefield who adjust their tactics to fit the constantly changing nature of a conflict", and that should be BLU's speciality, to be able to get things done when certain roles are needed. It doesn't need to be top DD since you have to be REALLY top DD that beats WAR SAM MNK DRK DRG to be useful as a DD job in this game, and you make BLU top DD, inc more DRK Q.Q

Personally I think BLU is just fine as it is. At lv 75 ppl kept saying it has no use for endgame, I had no problem using it on many event and still contribute, such as VNM fight as a stun whore/cannonball DD(a very nice way to deal dmg on T4 black dragon), no problem to use it in Einherjar T3 since stun spam makes it much easier, and light dispel(only this job and BRD can dispel soulflayers) for Nyzul. Although I admit I don't have a lot of job leveled, so I stuck with BLU most of the time. If I have 20 jobs leveled I probably won't use it as much.

If there's any hybrid job that needs to be fixed, it's SCH DNC COR and maybe DRK....I added "maybe" because I found DRK to be the best job to zombie hold NMs outside of abby

You complain that your hitting weapon the T4 Sandy VWNM, guys Fudo SAMs are hitting for 400, Ukon WAR's are getting 300~500, and so forth. The only DD that was dealing somewhat decent damage was the JR RNG. That four armed bandit just has ridiculous -PDT/MDT, nothing we hit him with was dealing large amounts of damage.

Wildfire can hit 1~2.3k on it at lv 90, you need magic dmg.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5522/wf2d.png

No job can be the best DD in every situation.

[Tashan]

How's SATA cannonball "Sheer garbage" in comparision to other DDs in the old days

It's one attack every 1 Minute. It's like having a weapon with 3600 Delay.

RNGs will be shooting arrows in between.

SMNs will be allowing their avatar to be melee or resummon spam.

A BLU could supposedly healing or casting support spells in the meantime, but if you're using a strategy where you're fighting for a Ranged Attack distance noones taking damage. Neither are there any Blue Magic spells which can support efficiently.

Also I thought BST is currently the best dynamis currency solo job and DRG is nice to have(Although I'm not sure replacing a DRG with Ukon WAR may yield better result or not) for Angon when you zerg?

I'd argue Blue Mage is better than BST, but I'm biased.

For Zerg strategies the damage Angon + DRG + Wyvern provides in one slot shouldn't do more than a SAM or a WAR in that same slot. In addition Angon won't stack so where it's important to have, once one person fills that spot none other are required.

I personally don't want BLU to be "useful" in VW because of proc(proc is really a dumb way to make a job useful....

I agree. However, I will argue that having some job demand is better than next to none at all. At LV75, the only job demand a Blue Mage would have is Einherjar, and that was a dying event anyway. It didn't mean you were alienated from other content, but you were replaceable.

In Abyssea the procing system made having a Blue Mage a requirement, and it definently helped me to make progress.

The other alternative would of been having to level a new job that I don't want to play just to get things for my BLU. Doing that though would mean having to work on making that other job as productive as my BLU is.

SE mentioned they want BLU's role to be "Veritable shape shifters on the battlefield who adjust their tactics to fit the constantly changing nature of a conflict", and that should be BLU's speciality, to be able to get things done when certain roles are needed.

I have a challenge for you. And please don't take it as I'm just setting it to prove a point. That's just how I come across sometimes.

I would like you to write full Blue Magic Spell Setups to fulfill the below roles:

1. Healing
2. Enfeebling
3. Enhancing
4. A mix of the above
5. Ranged Attacking

You can choose either LV75 Cap, LV90 or LV95. Then we'll debate and evaluate their effectiveness.

It doesn't need to be top DD since you have to be REALLY top DD that beats WAR SAM MNK DRK DRG to be useful as a DD job in this game, and you make BLU top DD, inc more DRK Q.Q

Yep, agreed.

Personally I think BLU is just fine as it is. At lv 75 ppl kept saying it has no use for endgame, I had no problem using it on many event and still contribute, such as VNM fight as a stun whore/cannonball DD(a very nice way to deal dmg on T4 black dragon), no problem to use it in Einherjar T3 since stun spam makes it much easier, and light dispel(only this job and BRD can dispel soulflayers) for Nyzul. Although I admit I don't have a lot of job leveled, so I stuck with BLU most of the time. If I have 20 jobs leveled I probably won't use it as much.

Totally agree with you. After I quit RDM about 4 years ago, I picked up Blue Mage and have found myself being able to join in almost every activity in this game ever since. I never play any other job but Blue Mage.

I feel this is partly because I am also usually an organiser for any events I participate in and often I will build a party keeping my role options in mind.

However, it's vary rare I let another person in my events play Blue Mage, ironically.

[Afania]

It's one attack every 1 Minute. It's like having a weapon with 3600 Delay.

RNGs will be shooting arrows in between.

SMNs will be allowing their avatar to be melee or resummon spam.

A BLU could supposedly healing or casting support spells in the meantime, but if you're using a strategy where you're fighting for a Ranged Attack distance noones taking damage. Neither are there any Blue Magic spells which can support efficiently.

At lv 75 if you used a PLD tank, their enmity generating ability was no where near as good as a well geared RNG(there were no CDC at that time for PLDs, they had even less enmity generating tool). There's no way RNG can go all out and do dmg without taking the risk of screwing up the pt formation. They need to hold back, and there's still the risk after they WS.

SMN is decent though, although I'm not sure in the process of resummon and such will lower too much dmg output or not.

BLU cannonball spam may not be irreplaceable when there's other option like SMN and RNG, but it's still not "sheer garbage" level since it has it's own advantage compare with RNG.

I agree. However, I will argue that having some job demand is better than next to none at all. At LV75, the only job demand a Blue Mage would have is Einherjar, and that was a dying event anyway. It didn't mean you were alienated from other content, but you were replaceable.

In Abyssea the procing system made having a Blue Mage a requirement, and it definently helped me to make progress.

And Abyssea also created a lot of bandwagon BLUs that doesn't enjoy play the job and just lv it for yellow proc, and never bother to get any spells/gears besides proc spells because they just lv BLU as a proc whore. I'm not looking down on ppl who lv the job as a proc whore and gimping it, I can understand where it's come from since I have a lv 75 THF with no gear except TH hands and knife because I need TH sometimes.

Plus ppl complained when they can't find a BLU for AF3 pt.

Having a job as a requirement because of proc is making this game less fun than it should be. Ppl who doesn't enjoy playing BLU is forced to play it for proc, while making others that spent the time on the job feel sad to see others gimping it for the sake of efficency. Ppl who just want to get shit done is forced to find specific job for proc, which can be a bit painful sometimes. Of course we all want our main job to be needed for everything, but sometimes it just created more pain.

Seriously, why do I need to lv NIN to solo/duo empy trials(that's my friend's suggestion when I told him I want to make an Almace....he told me to go lv NIN) when it's soloable/duoable on BLU ._.


Proc, stupid proc

I have a challenge for you. And please don't take it as I'm just setting it to prove a point. That's just how I come across sometimes.

I would like you to write full Blue Magic Spell Setups to fulfill the below roles:

1. Healing
2. Enfeebling
3. Enhancing
4. A mix of the above
5. Ranged Attacking

Hmmm do you mean what spell to set for specific role? Tbh it really depends on the situation, but I'll try to do the list regardless.

I'll do lv 90 since I haven't play FFXI since 95 update.

1. Plenilune Embrace+magic fruit+winds of promy? Some +MND stat spells are good although it's not really needed IMO, would rather set usual DD/stun/sleep spells to keep some form of versatility when situation changes.

2.Sub-zero smash(para)/Filamented hold(slow)/Actinic Burst(flash)/headbutt(stun)/dream flower or sheep song(sleep)/blank gaze or geist wall(dispel)/Disseverment(Poison)/Aureral drape(blind and silence)/benthnc typhoon(def/mdef down)/Magnetite Cloud(gravity)/Regurgitation(bind)/Demoralizing Roar(attack down)/Infrasonics(eva down)

Depending on the mob may remove some if it doesn't land or not needed on the target.

3. I don't consider BLU to be enhancing job at all with long recast time of Diffusion. I guess AoE refresh in Salvage if healer is a WHM? Or AoE attack buff before zerg? Or diamondhide which isn't that effective and would rather accession SS......

4. Would probably keep magic fruit/P.embrace/winds of promy/Sub-zero smash/Filamented hold/Actinic Burst/benthnc typhoon/disseverment at least, other debuff depends on what benefits the situation the most I guess.

5. That I'm totally not sure, I haven't play BLU to deal ranged dmg only for very long time since I have an empy COR if I need ranged dmg, and most of the time ranged dmg are not really really needed nowadays(even in VWNM I just run in and efflux QC and run away)

I guess Cannonball+ powerful nuke spells like everyone's Grudge or dark orb at lv 95, and rest of the spells being +STR? Although setting both physical ranged spells and nuke spells at once will lower the dmg, but still better than just sit there and wait for recast time.

My question is if ranged dmg is really really needed nowadays though?

[Scuro]

Two things..

1. No BLU "MAGE" should never compete with a DD who's only ability is to DD, improving BLU anymore in melee would do exactly that.

2. LOL SUMMONER!?! are you serious!!!! (PS. Summoner isn't a Mage)

Yes Summoner's used to DD with their pets with their staves, and in some cases that was fantastic, in others, not so much. Thats why you have to pick your battles. (P.S, the job uses MP, thats mage enough for me, even the abilities cost MP, so quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and flys like a duck, its probably a duck).

How's SATA cannonball "Sheer garbage" in comparision to other DDs in the old days, when it's ranged + can transfer enmity. Other DD is either ranged but generates tones of enmity(such as RNG), or can transfer enmity but not ranged(SAM/THF). There are other options like SMN but I don't think it is that good to a point to make cannonball sheer garbage(Avatar still dies from AoE, and it doesn't transfer enmity to the tank).

Do I miss any other good DD option to replace cannonball and makes it garbage on strong NMs with AoE?

Alright to be fair, and since I was that shmuck using Cannonball back in the day for NMs, I may have exagerated in saying it was sheer garbage, I will correct myself in saying its a dim light bulb, for the reasons that Tashan has stated. Cannonball in prespective really wasn't fantastic, did it help? Sure but so does a Poison DoT (again not the exact comparison of DoT, but you get the general idea that anything helps but doesn't make it worth while).

[Afania]

I agree. However, I will argue that having some job demand is better than next to none at all. At LV75, the only job demand a Blue Mage would have is Einherjar, and that was a dying event anyway. It didn't mean you were alienated from other content, but you were replaceable.

In Abyssea the procing system made having a Blue Mage a requirement, and it definently helped me to make progress.

Tbh I still don't think "replaceable" is that much of a big deal. On the other hand irreplaceable isn't always better. There used to be so many player leveled BRD at lv 75 so they can join merit pt or EG event, and ended up stuck with BRD forever and not allowed to play other jobs, and complained etc.

You used Einherjar as an example, I'll just use it to explain. Having a BLU for T3 used to be very good because of stun at lv 75, and it will make T3 much easier. But if you can't find a BLU(or if LS BLU doesn't feel like wanting to play BLU that day), that's just fine. Replace the BLU with another DD or healer. You lost stun, but you get more dmg or healing, in the end the difference isn't that big, you lost some advantage, you gain other advantage. It may not be the most optimal result, but it's at least 75%~85% as effective as optimal setup. This applies to all contents that doesn't involve proc besides zerging to use BLU. It's not irreplaceable for most optimal pt setup for most of the situation, but it's at least 75% as effective as specialists and BLU has some advantage other jobs doesn't have. That's already enough to get you into the pt if you don't have other jobs leveled.

But if you added proc, then the difference gets a LOT bigger. If you're not factoring proc, soloing KI NM on NIN is probably only 10~15% more efficient than BLU due to faster killing speed. If you're factoring red proc, soloing KI NM on NIN will be 3x more efficient than BLU in terms of time and money spent on pops. And that's just not acceptable. I can accept spending 10% more time on farming KI on BLU, but not 66% because of lack of WS. And that's what happen when this game rely on proc to make a job "special" and "useful".

I do admit that zerging high lv NM is one aspect that BLU is absolutely shit and no where close to optimal result though. The only advantage it has but other DD doesn't have is just def down spell and AoE attack buff. And it's really hard to contribute in zerging situation. In that case I'd say nerfing heavy strike is really a bad decision. BLU doesn't need to deal as much dmg as 2h DD during zerging, but at least it should be able to contribute decent amount of dmg while having advantages other DDs doesn't have such as def down/aoe attack up spell, to make it replaceable but still able to contribute in it's own way. The point of of heavy strike is not to replace WAR DRK SAM for zerging, but if you want to play BLU or only have BLU, you can still contribute and able to get something done that WAR DRK SAM can't. Just like previous arguement about DRG v.s WAR, DRG is just fine for def down, but you don't need it and you can replace it with another Ukon WAR with more dmg. But if someone only has DRG or just want to play DRG, he can still contribute in a way WAR can't.

Lack of red/blue proc is also a difference you can't make up no matter what, and I really don't want another event that only certain jobs are allowed to play because they make a huge difference in terms of efficiency. Making a job useful because of proc really just make the game no fun at all tbh.

Alright to be fair, and since I was that shmuck using Cannonball back in the day for NMs, I may have exagerated in saying it was sheer garbage, I will correct myself in saying its a dim light bulb, for the reasons that Tashan has stated. Cannonball in prespective really wasn't fantastic, did it help? Sure but so does a Poison DoT (again not the exact comparison of DoT, but you get the general idea that anything helps but doesn't make it worth while).

If you're looking for a game changing spell/ability for this job, I'd say at least 80% of the job on the job list offers nothing game changing and fantastic, those job that has fantasitic ability often being forced to play it and don't have other choice, while some others lv it just for efficiency. It is not just this job, it's a problem many other job has.

When RDM was useful for everything, RDMs Q.Q about being forced to play as RDM healer and not allowed to play anything else. Now RDMs Q.Q about not having Cure V, which is just ironic. Trust me, if SE give BLU something omgwtf fantasitic irreplaceable and game changing, inc more Q.Q.