If RDM and SCH can't have Cure 5, give us Afflatus Misery/Solace

[Zhronne]

We're still at square 1 with this discussion.
I don't think anybody denies the fact that (especially by the time level 99 will be out) RDM and SCH need something stronger than Cure IV to add to their arsenal, for several reasons which have all been explained in this thread.

At the same time though, giving them Cure V might be "a bit too much", and that's because there's too wide of a gap between CIV and CV.



There aren't many solutions here. Either they create a new spell especially for RDM or SCH (which is unlikely imho) or they give them a gimped CV, similar to what happens to some JAs that get gimped when used by other jobs/subs.

[Zhronne]

and hell nuking since they are evidently inferior to blm as well

It's situational to what you have to do (SCH has issues with AoE spells etc) but altough it requires much more effort in skills and gear compared to BLM, SCH can actually be as good or even better than BLM if we're talking about damage throughput and mana spent.

Or at least things used to be that way at level 75, you can find many competent player in both jobs saying it. Doubt things have changed that much at 90, aside from obvious differences in JAs (mana wall for example) and AoE spells.

[Vortex]

It's situational to what you have to do (SCH has issues with AoE spells etc) but altough it requires much more effort in skills and gear compared to BLM, SCH can actually be as good or even better than BLM if we're talking about damage throughput and mana spent.

Or at least things used to be that way at level 75, you can find many competent player in both jobs saying it. Doubt things have changed that much at 90, aside from obvious differences in JAs (mana wall for example) and AoE spells.

Thing you have to understand is that people don't like jobs that require to much thinking, they want the one macro solves all jobs in order to function is this game, which is why people keep crying over cure 5, it's the same problem with sch vs blm, sch actually does MORE damage then blm with exact same nukes but they need to prep the spell which requires thinking, all people want is every thing handed to them, but every so often there will always be some person whining that things are not easy enough for them.

[Zhronne]

Yes but aside from discussions concerning who's stronger between SCH and BLM, the thing is that either way they're pretty close, even if SCH were a bit worse, the difference wouldn't be huge.
Can the same be said for WHM and SCH? And the answer is no of course, and it's the point of what people have been saying in this thread so far.

I think it's easy to understand the concerns of who doesn't want to see C5 given to other classes, but at the same time it should be easy for the other side of the fence to understand that C4 is not enough, period. And we go back to my previous post on page 18

[Vortex]

Yes but aside from discussions concerning who's stronger between SCH and BLM, the thing is that either way they're pretty close, even if SCH were a bit worse, the difference wouldn't be huge.
Can the same be said for WHM and SCH? And the answer is no of course, and it's the point of what people have been saying in this thread so far.

I think it's easy to understand the concerns of who doesn't want to see C5 given to other classes, but at the same time it should be easy for the other side of the fence to understand that C4 is not enough, period. And we go back to my previous post on page 18

Well i agree that cure IV is not enough most of the time, but giving them cure 5 is redundent they already said they would look into giving them a "stronger" cure, but not exactly cure 5 maybe this is one of those things that should just be waited out, as a Main whm, i absolutly disped the 75 days where peopel were saying whm was useless etc because all you needed was a rdm/whm to solve everything, i am GLAD they fixed that issue and now we have the rdm whining that they want that over powerdness back, well to bad.

The only thing that bothers me about sch is stratagems not having aoe options for elemental magic ( i mean come on, the guy in the AF hat fight can do them). i imagine the MP cost with be absurd but i think it would work.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This is a massive matter of opinion. Considering that /SCH is better for MP usage for any job, the only people that would be hurt by losing /RDM convert would be Black Mages trying to keep Manawall up, not White Mages that everyone seems to love to hate on the forums.

I know that it isn't sub usable because of job restrictions, not because of other restrictions, but Composure is a much more useful ability then Convert, but it isn't subable because it is at the just out of reach level 50.

If you don't want Convert to be sub usable, I suggest we switch the levels at which Red Mage gets Composure and Convert. I'll take Composure from /RDM any day over Convert. If you think this is a horrible idea and a bad trade, that's because it is - Composure is Red Mage's non-sub usable ability.

All that said, I think that Convert is due for a buff - a 10-20% bonus of HP/MP converted would be a nice job trait for Red Mage to get at higher levels, but wouldn't replace the effect on the Red Mage Mythic.

Hmm. You DON'T need to have at least one JA from each job, the proof is in NIN and WHM who give you no real JA's and if you want to compare Divine Seal with Convert it's lacklustre at best.

Fact of the matter is Convert was one of RDM's biggest buffs outside of Composure, and I'm fine with subjobs getting it, but they should NOT have got it at the same potency. It's a subjob so it should have been half the potency like with most the JA's.

Soul Eater - Half the potency, full cost.
Accession - 3x the recast duration

and so on.

Instead pretty much everything that RDM had as unique was passed on, and will continue to be passed on until lvl. 99 and to counteract this all they got was Refresh II.

[Zhronne]

like with most the JA's.

Most?
I would have wrote "some" rather than "most".

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Most?
I would have wrote "some" rather than "most".

The only ones that were not gimped were the ones that are not all that impressive.

[Zhronne]

The only ones that were not gimped were the ones that are not all that impressive.

I kinda agree. Those that weren't nerfed is mostly because 1) they aren't impressing, 2) They need JSE/Merits to be good.
But still, they are the great majority of JAs. Just a few ones have been gimped.
So I stand by my previous statement of "some" being better than "most"

[Soranika]

LOL why in gods name would anyone sub /smn for sch, that has got to be the dumbest thing ever, no matter what /smn gets subed nothing can ever make it appealing. they are fine as /rdm and in some sitations /blm even /whm has uses if you are purely support/healing only for haste mainly. it's bad enough whms sub rdm.

But back on topic this crap will never end,

WHM's primary job is to HEAL AND SUPPORT why the hell do people keep trying to make it useless by asking for their traits if you want cure 5 PLAY WHITE MAGE for crying out loud, rdm is not ment to fully keep everyone cured, neither is SCH they are made to be hybrids how many times do we have to keep going to this "waaa i want cure 5 because i want my hybrid job to be better then the jobs that are meant to do it mainly"

lol it was a joke. /smn use to be the big thing years ago before WoTG because of the Boost MP trait. Surely you remember that... No?