SE, Temper Activation Rate

[Karbuncle]

Their intents were in the right place (Everyone being rewarded for their effort, Overcoming 10 pool limits, etc)... But without an Option to Pool a drop, or give it to someone... it does kind of fall on its ass.

However, If you could pool drops, Imagine how quickly we might burn through the content? They have to include some time sinks or the game gets old and we get Abyssea-Syndrome again (finish everything and get burned out in a week)

[saevel]

Abyssea if far from over, Guku is still mega camped. People still building emp weapons, still farming +1/+2 armor. Tons of stuff going on. And while SE might not add more stuff, but they don't need to, Abyssea can easily last the next 6 months with what's in there. Unless your talking the top 5% of the game population that burns through everything, the guys that used to do kings and complain when SE made gear readily available to "lessor" players. Yeah you guys pretty much finished Abyssea and there isn't much left for you to do now, go cry in a corner already. SE has now shifted the game towards the 90%+ population that does things with friends when given the chance and doesn't burn through content instantly upon release. This has been a profitable decision for SE.

VWNM is cool, loot distribution is similar to salvage. Most of the decent items are from T4's, and its ultra low drop rate.

Trolls are people who's whole purpose in posting is to piss other posters off, they don't attempt rational debate. You can always tell who trolls are by their attitudes, "RDM meleez is deh suckz" is pretty much a troll post.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Must be server based, Once the JPs go to sleep we've found Guku camping goes way down. You can get the KI in chest now anyway.

Rdm melee does suck compared to heavy DDs. This isn't a troll post. I do it, I enjoy it, I don't doubt for a second it sucks on anything worthwhile. I only take comfort in the fact Rdm's white/ws damage with CDC isn't -that- far below Blu's (of course, no Ca/Efflux/quick casting high damage spells that SC with WS, WS damage on Rdm is approximately ~300 below Blu in best setups as of 90 cap, couldn't get 25% haste in best melee set at 90, etc).

I don't have a problem with making drops not pool-able, but the drop rate on some items is horrid, from what I've seen posted so far it's averaging below Ridill on some of the body drops from T4.

[Septimus]

Abyssea if far from over, Guku is still mega camped. People still building emp weapons, still farming +1/+2 armor. Tons of stuff going on. And while SE might not add more stuff, but they don't need to, Abyssea can easily last the next 6 months with what's in there. Unless your talking the top 5% of the game population that burns through everything, the guys that used to do kings and complain when SE made gear readily available to "lessor" players. Yeah you guys pretty much finished Abyssea and there isn't much left for you to do now, go cry in a corner already. SE has now shifted the game towards the 90%+ population that does things with friends when given the chance and doesn't burn through content instantly upon release. This has been a profitable decision for SE.

VWNM is cool, loot distribution is similar to salvage. Most of the decent items are from T4's, and its ultra low drop rate.

Trolls are people who's whole purpose in posting is to piss other posters off, they don't attempt rational debate. You can always tell who trolls are by their attitudes, "RDM meleez is deh suckz" is pretty much a troll post.

Abyssea is over. "Over" means "no more major content to be added". It does not mean that players aren't going to do it anymore, it is just not the focus of the game like it has been for the last year or so. My linkshell still did Dynamis and Limbus practically every week until they raised the level cap to 80, but for all intents and purposes those events were over and mostly unchanged (a few extra gears added and drop rate increase for Dynamis, price reductions on both) for many, many years.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not a super-elitist. Yes, I was doing Dynamis and camping Fafnir before most of the people on these forums even heard of FFIX, but I am old and tired now, I can't compete with kids today. I appreciate Abyssea because it is fun, challenging (since everything is done lowman), and most importantly, very rewarding. That is the difference between Abyssea and pretty much everything else in FFXI, you do it, you have a good time, AND you get stuff. (Trust me, I used to do Jailers, killing monsters and getting rewarded for it would have been considered a novel concept back during CoP!) While I have a decent amount of +2 Empyrean Armor, I don't have a weapon, and from the looks of things I will never get one. I still have plenty to do in Abyssea because I have to gear nine jobs on two characters and am working on a tenth.

But my point is, Voidwatch is the future. Square's plan was to usher people into end-game, that is Voidwatch. (Complete with the terrible mobs and horrible drop rates!) Red Mage needs something extra to be relevant in Voidwatch, but sadly the job is going to be left behind for specialists who can do everything RDMs can do, but better. Temper could have been it had it been an aura effect with a decent proc rate, instead it is going to be a self-only spell with a joke of a proc rate.

[saevel]

Rdm melee does suck compared to heavy DDs. This isn't a troll post.

Strawman,

Look over the posts of the people who said that, they were always preceded by or followed by "don't give RDM's temper because their melee is deh suckz", or "why is it self cast when RDM melee is deh suckz", or "it's a useless spell and a waste of the slot because RDM melee is deh suckz" and so on so forth. Basically "RDM melee is deh suckz" is used as an excuse to force a buff for every melee job. There is a difference between "our melee is hurting, we need an update" to "your melee sucks, you shouldn't get an update, not shut up, buff me and bring me my sammich". And that is the line in the sand. I've done this debate for the better part of seven years, I've already seen every last one of these arguments and the retorts and just about everything that will possibly be said has already been said. It's easy to see people's attitude towards anything related to "RDM Melee", and the negative ones want nothing better then to set RDM's sword / dagger skill at 0, give them Cure V and tell us to shut up and make them a sammich.

But my point is, Voidwatch is the future. Square's plan was to usher people into end-game, that is Voidwatch. (Complete with the terrible mobs and horrible drop rates!) Red Mage needs something extra to be relevant in Voidwatch, but sadly the job is going to be left behind for specialists who can do everything RDMs can do, but better. Temper could have been it had it been an aura effect with a decent proc rate, instead it is going to be a self-only spell with a joke of a proc rate.

Complete and utter BS. If this was true then I wouldn't be coming RDM for every non-abyssea event. I have BLU, WAR, SAM, PLD all extremely well geared, Full Emp +2 and Almace. I'm also recently LV 90 WHM, although we have plenty of those and should we ever need another WHM I can always bring my alt char who is a full Emp+2 WHM. With the shear amounts of FC we get we end up being the games #1 best stunners, along with having a survivability rate similar to a PLD. That alone is worth a spot, but then we go into my two favorite spells, Slow II and Dia III, the first being useful if the NM use's frequent melee attacks, and the second being amazing for increasing everyone's, especially the tanks damage over time. The damage we do in a boss battle is just icing on the cake. Actually there is very little difference between Abyssea and VWNM's, aside from players not having crour buffs / atmas. Your still procing things to increase drop rates, and most importantly your procing white to inflict the terror and have all your melees (RDM included) run in and do as much damage as possible to increase your spectral alignment bonus. Abyssea was all about procing yellow/blue then red and then having your melee zerg it while it's terrorized and kill it before it moves again.

And WTF BS about Temper? Are you conveniently forgetting that SE is changing it to scale with Enhancing magic? It's looking like your just pissed cause your BLU / PLD / whatever wont' be getting the effect.

Or were you one that ran around doing everything with MNK + WHM...

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't feel it's 'our melee is hurting and we need an update', I think it's 'our melee is hurting but we have other things that need looking at before any melee updates, which while nice aren't a huge issue'. It isn't a strawman, it isn't hard to see Rdm melee will and does fail against stronger Nms. Even with Almace we're still behind Blu in best sets and against stronger targets their white damage suffers as well (not as badly as most of their spells without CA/Efflux).

And considering what SE just did to Heavy Strike after people were using it on the test server, I'd be happy to not get nerfed again. Or having a few removed.

[SpankWustler]

I don't feel it's 'our melee is hurting and we need an update', I think it's 'our melee is hurting but we have other things that need looking at before any melee updates, which while nice aren't a huge issue'. It isn't a strawman, it isn't hard to see Rdm melee will and does fail against stronger Nms. Even with Almace we're still behind Blu in best sets and against stronger targets their white damage suffers as well (not as badly as most of their spells without CA/Efflux).

This single paragraph is the most accurate depiction of anything in FFXI that has ever graced this forum. I want to make out with this paragraph.

[saevel]

'our melee is hurting but we have other things that need looking at before any melee updates, which while nice aren't a huge issue'

Like what exactly. Are you seriously with a straight face trying to tell me that RDM's mage components are hurting more then the melee side? RDM is equal parts BLM,WHM,WAR, not WHM ... then BLM ... then maybe WAR. SE already created a job that masters WHM and BLM magic, it's called SCH. BLU is not RDM, no where close, heck if anything BLU's should be wanting a RDM around them always as Dia III is one of the few ways to jack up the damage on BLU physical spells.

Or were you one of the "SE give us Cure V so we can be WHM's again" crowd?

The fact that you haven't been added to my ignore list means I don't consider you a troll. But I will have to ask, have you ever done a serious RDM melee build?

You guys keep talking about "reason to be there" and "invite rate", which is completely and utter bull sh!t. Are you seriously attempting VWNM's in a pick up group? RDM already has plenty of functions and reasons to "be there", Refresh II with AF2 pants along will guaranteed you a spot with the WHMs, although I hate using that as a reason, still it's one. Then of course the Stun / Slow III / Dia III combo is extremely useful, locking out a single TP move consistently makes many T3/T4 VWNM's easier. Then you have T4 nukes for ranged magic damage, and various crowd control options if SE ever creates another Dynamis / Limbus style event. And on top all that you have enough self buffs to make yourself nigh invincible. This is all before considering the melee side, which isn't weak in the slightest.

In fact let me clear some BS up about that, cause I'm tired of a bunch of noobs making claims they know nothing about. RDM's melee side is not weak, don't ever think that. It needs work due to years of SE ignoring it. RDM lacks the ~GEAR~ and that's it, and seeing from the test server .dat's SE is now correcting that by putting RDM back on the haste / TP gear sets. RDM can get 25% haste and capped acc, we suffer in the attack field, but so does BLU. RDM actually only has slightly lower attack then BLU, we're talking 20 or so attack. And if the RDM is /DRK then they have more attack then BLU, but that's a special sub for specific situations. I use Bison Steak on both, Accuracy hasn't been an issue since 75, and anything that RDM will have an acc issue on BLU will to and thus Pizza +1 will be employed. The biggest dependency was that BLU's get Vorpal Blade natively while RDM is forced to use Evisceration. RDM's are on all the nice swords but aren't on any of the nice daggers. RDM's do get Aeolian Edge and can deal good damage with it so they can participate in the mass farming / amber light farming abyssea groups. And seeing that SE is looking at weapon skill distribution, we might be getting sword EX WS's soon which nullifys this entire argument instantly.

So please tell me, what is your experience with all this, or are you just speaking out of "what everyone knows" type ignorance? Cause the more you talk the close your argument sounds to "RDM melee is deh suckz, don't bother, now get to the back and buff me, and bring me my sammich".

[SpankWustler]

Like what exactly. Are you seriously with a straight face trying to tell me that RDM's mage components are hurting more then the melee side? RDM is equal parts BLM,WHM,WAR, not WHM ... then BLM ... then maybe WAR. SE already created a job that masters WHM and BLM magic, it's called SCH. BLU is not RDM, no where close, heck if anything BLU's should be wanting a RDM around them always as Dia III is one of the few ways to jack up the damage on BLU physical spells.

Or were you one of the "SE give us Cure V so we can be WHM's again" crowd?

The fact that you haven't been added to my ignore list means I don't consider you a troll. But I will have to ask, have you ever done a serious RDM melee build?

You guys keep talking about "reason to be there" and "invite rate", which is completely and utter bull sh!t. Are you seriously attempting VWNM's in a pick up group? RDM already has plenty of functions and reasons to "be there", Refresh II with AF2 pants along will guaranteed you a spot with the WHMs, although I hate using that as a reason, still it's one. Then of course the Stun / Slow III / Dia III combo is extremely useful, locking out a single TP move consistently makes many T3/T4 VWNM's easier. Then you have T4 nukes for ranged magic damage, and various crowd control options if SE ever creates another Dynamis / Limbus style event. And on top all that you have enough self buffs to make yourself nigh invincible. This is all before considering the melee side, which isn't weak in the slightest.

In fact let me clear some BS up about that, cause I'm tired of a bunch of noobs making claims they know nothing about. RDM's melee side is not weak, don't ever think that. It needs work due to years of SE ignoring it. RDM lacks the ~GEAR~ and that's it, and seeing from the test server .dat's SE is now correcting that by putting RDM back on the haste / TP gear sets. RDM can get 25% haste and capped acc, we suffer in the attack field, but so does BLU. RDM actually only has slightly lower attack then BLU, we're talking 20 or so attack. And if the RDM is /DRK then they have more attack then BLU, but that's a special sub for specific situations. I use Bison Steak on both, Accuracy hasn't been an issue since 75, and anything that RDM will have an acc issue on BLU will to and thus Pizza +1 will be employed. The biggest dependency was that BLU's get Vorpal Blade natively while RDM is forced to use Evisceration. RDM's are on all the nice swords but aren't on any of the nice daggers. RDM's do get Aeolian Edge and can deal good damage with it so they can participate in the mass farming / amber light farming abyssea groups. And seeing that SE is looking at weapon skill distribution, we might be getting sword EX WS's soon which nullifys this entire argument instantly.

So please tell me, what is your experience with all this, or are you just speaking out of "what everyone knows" type ignorance? Cause the more you talk the close your argument sounds to "RDM melee is deh suckz, don't bother, now get to the back and buff me, and bring me my sammich".

Blue Mage isn't an excellent melee by any definition, and Red Mage is a smidgen worse at hitting things than Blue Mage. If you standard is just "a job that doesn't fall flat on it's face when it tries to swing a pointy thing at a monster-shaped thing" than either job can do just fine. In some situations, both jobs do perform just fine while hitting things.

In other situations, a Blue Mage is better off using Charged Whisker half-way across a zone while a Red Mage and a White Mage support a Warrior. Sometimes that Blue Mage is better off cycling 567 proc spells and hating his or her life while the Red Mage focuses on Cures and either Stuns or status removal spells.

I guess my point is that a Blue Mage isn't a very good standard of comparison for "this job hits things with things!" because Blue Mage just doesn't hit things as well as people advertize.

[Scuro]

Like what exactly. Are you seriously with a straight face trying to tell me that RDM's mage components are hurting more then the melee side? RDM is equal parts BLM,WHM,WAR, not WHM ... then BLM ... then maybe WAR. SE already created a job that masters WHM and BLM magic, it's called SCH. BLU is not RDM, no where close, heck if anything BLU's should be wanting a RDM around them always as Dia III is one of the few ways to jack up the damage on BLU physical spells.

Or were you one of the "SE give us Cure V so we can be WHM's again" crowd?

The fact that you haven't been added to my ignore list means I don't consider you a troll. But I will have to ask, have you ever done a serious RDM melee build?

You guys keep talking about "reason to be there" and "invite rate", which is completely and utter bull sh!t. Are you seriously attempting VWNM's in a pick up group? RDM already has plenty of functions and reasons to "be there", Refresh II with AF2 pants along will guaranteed you a spot with the WHMs, although I hate using that as a reason, still it's one. Then of course the Stun / Slow III / Dia III combo is extremely useful, locking out a single TP move consistently makes many T3/T4 VWNM's easier. Then you have T4 nukes for ranged magic damage, and various crowd control options if SE ever creates another Dynamis / Limbus style event. And on top all that you have enough self buffs to make yourself nigh invincible. This is all before considering the melee side, which isn't weak in the slightest.

In fact let me clear some BS up about that, cause I'm tired of a bunch of noobs making claims they know nothing about. RDM's melee side is not weak, don't ever think that. It needs work due to years of SE ignoring it. RDM lacks the ~GEAR~ and that's it, and seeing from the test server .dat's SE is now correcting that by putting RDM back on the haste / TP gear sets. RDM can get 25% haste and capped acc, we suffer in the attack field, but so does BLU. RDM actually only has slightly lower attack then BLU, we're talking 20 or so attack. And if the RDM is /DRK then they have more attack then BLU, but that's a special sub for specific situations. I use Bison Steak on both, Accuracy hasn't been an issue since 75, and anything that RDM will have an acc issue on BLU will to and thus Pizza +1 will be employed. The biggest dependency was that BLU's get Vorpal Blade natively while RDM is forced to use Evisceration. RDM's are on all the nice swords but aren't on any of the nice daggers. RDM's do get Aeolian Edge and can deal good damage with it so they can participate in the mass farming / amber light farming abyssea groups. And seeing that SE is looking at weapon skill distribution, we might be getting sword EX WS's soon which nullifys this entire argument instantly.

So please tell me, what is your experience with all this, or are you just speaking out of "what everyone knows" type ignorance? Cause the more you talk the close your argument sounds to "RDM melee is deh suckz, don't bother, now get to the back and buff me, and bring me my sammich".

Benthic Typhoon, please check it, a spell in which just about every Physical BLU has equipped does 10% Physical and Magical damage down, while your Dia III does 15%. Thats great and all, but Why would I NEED a RDM? sure that 5% sounds nice, but why sacrifice things that would further benefit the group, just so I have have an additional 10% physical down and not 10% Magical down to benefit my nukers? And you are right with the middle section of this, you are wanted for those said buffs and debuffs. What your not wanted there for is DD. Every RDM's argument is that they have better acc and can parse better then a BLU in terms of sword DPS..... Thats great.... Too bad that really isn't what a BLU purely does in terms of damage (unless your rockin an almace). I had a RDM brag to me that he was hitting more accurately then I was by 15%, to which I simply replied "ya but the difference is it takes me 2 minutes to kill a mob and it takes you DD'n for 7 to kill one."

There is a reason why BLU was introduced to this game, it was to provide DD RDMs the ability to play a true DD hybrid mage class that was meant to be frontlined. You are right that SCH is a better mage hybrid as it stands then a RDM, however, I feel a RDM should be a better buffer then a SCH, and as it stands, it is not. So why waste time, effort, and consideration on a class that will not DD unless it starts to get DD JA's and actual DD gear that makes it competitive with other DD classes. When they should be establishing the class as the buffer and debuffer class that it is. To exceed at benefitting the party by killing mobs faster, rather then dragging out fights because you think your sword is going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of a party. Whenever a DD RDM tells me that he DD's to "benefit the party" I roll my eyes, because it is pure selfishness as to why they do it. A BLU however benefits a party, hell I open just about every fight with a Benthic Typhoon so I can help the mages and the DD's at the same time.

As it stands, the only reason a RDM is needed for anything, is because VoidWatch requires just about every job in the game, outside of that, the class is practically lack luster. Its not desired, and woopdie doo, Refresh II, why take a class that really is only desired for 1 buff, when practically most mages these days /RDM if they really need the MP? The job needs more buffs for me to say "we need a RDM!" and thats the thing RDMs should be going for, buffs that make it desirable and make SCHs take a back seat. Not trying to compete with BLU or get more mediocre DD skills (Temper lol, so basically ever DD RDM's Joyeuse just got a +1, and I mean a joy toy was seriously why everybody invited RDM to be a DD RDM right!?.... Wrong, even with double attack the job still wasn't desired, so why would it be now? The problem isn't how many times you can hit, or how accurate you hit, the problem is that jobs hit faster, and more then a RDM, harder then a RDM, and actually have traits to enhance them as a DD class. So why compete in a fight your already loosing, when you could compete in a fight that you were meant to win?)