WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[Vagrua]

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Something for warriors to play around with. The quested/mythic/emp/relic weaponskills would still make other jobs unique in their own ways. Seems like you put a lot of thought into it also with the description and pics. Just an addition of mine would be changing your weapon would make the status effect of the ability wear off to where you wouldn't be able to use all the weaponskills of a newly equipped weapon immediately. That doesn't sound so game breaking to me.

[kingfury]

@Noodles: Okay, I've caught my breath from /laughing at your hissy fit post and I'll try to wrap up a reply quickly for ya (is a smiley face ok for ya then? Everyone luvs a smiley face ^^)
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What can I say to someone that misconstrues, misinterpretes, and resorts to name calling all in an effort to sound like they know what they're talkin about?... /sigh it's tough. As a whole, I'm gonna have to say "NO" you don't know what you're talking about.
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On the subject of Abyssea being a non balanced area, you've already agreed with me, so that means you lose the argument man. No need to beat a dead horse right? WARs win the award for being MVPs inside Abyssea okay. The area was designed to be "broken" in the 1st place, so any fears you have of maintaining some sort of fantasy "balance" is misplaced from the get go. It's pretty easy to understand.
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On the subject of dmg in Abyssea, I say GO TRY IT FOR YOURSELF! Don't take my friggin' word for it PLEASE! Go test for yourself. I will however add that you have to use the right gear for this testing though, but I assumed that would be understood when I shouldn't have obviously (see no "LOL" ^^)
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On the subject of triggering using only a WAR, again I assumed you understood that I was referring to blunt time slots and that yes of course there is still a chance that the trigger won't happen due to the few H2H ws that a WAR can't use and good o'l Hexa Strike. However, I'd say about 8/10 having access to access to near all club (except Hexa) and staff and one H2H ws usually works out as good odds in favor of the WAR being able to trigger Blue. And the same goes for Red triggers, but again a WAR has pretty great odds compared to any other job at proc'ing Red all by themselves. At least that's what I've experienced. So I'm not sure if that makes me... wait, lemmie go back up and check the hardcore 3rd grade playground names you chose... ah yes, "ignorant and stupid", but hopefully that helps clear things up for you.
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On the topic of how you spend your time outside Abyssea: I didn't assume a damn thing lol. Go back and read my words man, I said "If you don't know how to occupy your own time outside of Abyssea, I feel sorry for you.". The use of "IF" constitutes that I'm not trying to assume, but rather speak in a questioning tone. Go look up the word assumption perhaps, and maybe that will clear your head on this misunderstanding. Anywho, good for you and sky pops /cheer
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Annnndd that's about all I have energy for at this point (another smiley face) If you go back and read, your so called "points" were not even defended well... other than the great job you did at name calling and such... cause that took some effort i'm sure. Okie Dokie, have a good one.

[kingfury]

It doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Something for warriors to play around with. The quested/mythic/emp/relic weaponskills would still make other jobs unique in their own ways. Seems like you put a lot of thought into it also with the description and pics. Just an addition of mine would be changing your weapon would make the status effect of the ability wear off to where you wouldn't be able to use all the weaponskills of a newly equipped weapon immediately. That doesn't sound so game breaking to me.

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Jeeze-La-Weeze! Thank you man lol and yeah that edit sounds fair to me too. Thanks for the feedback

[Arcon]

What noodles said was on point. He defended what he said pretty well, if anything you should look up the definition of ignorant and arrogant, because it appears you're both. All of his points are valid, you seem to make up things, like that WAR can do decent damage with other weapons outside of Abyssea or that there's "a host of WS" capable of breaking 10k, and assume things about others, like that we only live inside Abyssea (and yes, you did imply that, since that response was directed at him/us, unless you were talking to someone else and avoiding his point, which makes that statement misleading and misplaced) or telling us to "GO TRY IT FOR YOURSEL[VES]", as if we didn't. Also..

lol Go try Sanguine blade out a bit with the right Atmas and Gear for starters [..]

I actually didn't try out Sanguine Blade with a decent setup yet, since I imagined it's like any other magical WS. But when you said that I thought maybe I was wrong? As it turns out... no.

Since you keep telling us to try for ourselves, here goes... Hecate's Earring, Novio Earring, Uggalepih Pendant, Templar Hammer offhand, which is pretty much all the MAB WAR can get (missing a total of 4% from very situational gear that no one has), so filled up the rest with STR. Full furtherance abyssites. Got Baying Moon, Ultimate and Cosmos as Atma, BLM sub for MAB trait. Damage was ~2k. Where did I go wrong?

I seriously doubt anything but Ukko's Fury and Steel Cyclone can exceed 10k damage, and even those require exceptional gear (and luck). Not just for WAR actually, I'm having a hard time imagining other jobs doing over 10k with any WS. Maybe RNGs with Wildfire on an ice mob with the right Atma? If anyone at all had a Redemption, could try Quietus stacked with Sneak Attack, apart from that I don't see any option to break 10k.

Maybe I'm even missing something, I don't know, and I don't care, either way your statement is just false and you're offending others constantly by thinking you're superior and know everything about WAR and all its possibilities and uses, in- and outside of Abyssea. And you've demonstrated on several occasions that that's not right. I'm starting to think you're just trolling people with your posts, it's hard to believe you're serious sometimes..

[kingfury]

"What noodles said was on point. He defended what he said pretty well, if anything you should look up the definition of ignorant and arrogant, because it appears you're both. All of his points are valid, you seem to make up things, like that WAR can do decent damage with other weapons outside of Abyssea or that there's "a host of WS" capable of breaking 10k,--"
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Give me one point of his that was "valid"? The part about an already "imbalanced" Abyssea being in danger of becoming "imbalanced" by WAR being able to effectively trigger most all triggers? The fear that other jobs will no longer be invited to Abyssea events if a WAR could even further efficiently trigger Red and Blue? (Which is just silly) Or about the other random mess all brought on by the blatant blind random attack mode he was in at the time? His slighted understanding of what Abyssea was designed for is what keeps him from making a valid point.
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YES, you could bring an entire alliance inside Abyssea to have a 100% chance of triggering Red and Blue, but the point I'm making is (if you're willing to plan around it, and try your luck and have the patience to pop a NM x2+ times if needed LIKE IN THE OLD DAYS before we were spoiled by Abyssea's lovely trigger system ^^) SE designed it so that you can pull this process off with a single WAR due to the variety they have should you not have EVERY job needed to trigger. WAR has at least ONE chance of triggering in ALL trigger time slots based on their selected sub job... Again, ALL trigger time slots. No other job can say this. Of course it's not as efficient as having 100% trigger capabilities, but it's no different than jobs being able to solo powerful NMs in Abyssea with 0 party support whatsoever. The possibility to do so is built in ALREADY.
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The zone caters to both small groups and large depending on what you have. My proposed JA would do nothing to put any jobs "out of work" especially if after using Weapon Mastery, the unexpected happened and the WAR wasn't successful while attempting to trigger the NM (which can and does happen often). The other jobs would just step in to fill the need like they should. Triggering is just one small dynamic of Abyssea battles, but you guys are blowing it up to be like the only reason jobs go there. Battle strategy amongst party members is still king while inside Abyssea, and I see no valid reason this would fall to the way side simply because the LS WAR handled the triggers for the fight. After you get triggers, it's business as usual in terms of working as a TEAM using everyones JA's and skills to triumph over the NM together.
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Another point is, have you forgotten the days when a NM hunting party or LS was dependent on having a single job in their ranks, THF, to be the integral key player in deciding whether the fight was even worth attempting? Just step outside of your thinking for one second and just consider that MAYBE SE WANTED WAR to be that new integral key player for the most part of Abyssea treasures. They've of course allowed THF to still play a big role in treasure drops, but just looking at the trigger system as a whole, there's no other job that is targeted to shine like that of the WAR in this zone. Then there's the fact that triggering is not even 100% guaranteed to work every time, but I hope you get what I'm saying at this point. /inhale
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The comment he brought up in a recent post was that no other weapon choice could exceed Ukko's Fury or Steel Cyclone dmg in Abyssea while on WAR. Whether he was talking brewed or not I'm not sure, but I assumed he meant overall which includes Brewed ws damage. I never said that the 10k damage I quoted was with or without brew, but I would think it would be understood I was speaking in such terms, so sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yeah "Brewed dmg" with Sanguine blade using all the right gear and Atma has EASILY cleared 10k+ dmg for me on numerous occasions of doing so. Aeolian Edge (non WAR ws) is another weapon that can clear 15k+ dmg while using Brews just as another example. I'll commend you for at least testing it out for yourself though, so good job. Your posted findings at least confirms what I'm saying is true about other weapon choices aside from GA and Axe being able to effectively and efficiently shell out high dmg numbers (Are you making sure to save up to 300 TP before using it? Just checking) There are people that can't consistently clear ~2k dmg with a GA or Axe even while inside Abyssea and you did it with a sword ws you said you've never tested before! You're testing indirectly supports that my claims of testing other weapons to find out their potential holds some validity. At any rate, I'm not just pulling things out of the air. Keep playing with different set ups to see what you come up with. Try mixing STR and INT gear and some STR or INT Atmas to see the difference. Oh and don't forget to charge the ws with Restraint to it's fullest when trying for MAX dmg output numbers (since you didn't say whether you used this JA while testing).
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Now this is just silly right here, Ughhhh:
"assume things about others, like that we only live inside Abyssea (and yes, you did imply that, since that response was directed at him/us, unless you were talking to someone else and avoiding his point, which makes that statement misleading and misplaced) or telling us to "GO TRY IT FOR YOURSEL[VES]", as if we didn't. Also.."
You're doing the same silly crap Noodles was doing by over reading/misconstruing what I said. I didn't imply a damn thing here. I told HIM to go test for HIMSELF. How the hell you got to the understanding that I'm talking about anyone else is just silly. You just want to be mad is what it sounds like.
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I've said plainly, that I don't dare claim to know everything about this game in a previous post, but I do take pride in understanding WAR, and NO I'm not saying I'm superior by saying that. It means I've played the job for over 7 years now and I know a whole lot about it. THAT'S IT. I've said nothing arrogant to date. If someone is trying to argue a point without ever testing the data themselves, I've urged them to get more data. I've never said/implied/hinted or whatever other silly crap you might throw back at me at this point (since I'm sure there's no end to this kind of hissy fight. You'll just find some group of words to argue back and forth with. /sigh), that I'm better than anyone else by anything I've said. By saying I haven't met a WAR that has taken as much effort as I have into massively testing all weapons over the years is a fact in my case alone. I HAVEN'T MET ONE. I'm not saying there aren't other WARs that in fact do take the same pride in understanding their limits, I just haven't met them personally. /sigh this is starting to become a chore just diffusing some of these reply's.
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I'm speaking plain and clear english, but you two are hearing what you want to hear. If something I've said is unclear, just ask me to clarify before you start reverting to the kiddy name calling in the future. I've successfully debated with well over 10 ppl on this thread (including you two) without disrespecting one or calling them silly names out of frustration. (Here, THIS isn't an implication) You should learn to control yourself/temper if you can't hold a debate with someone without taking things so personally. An intelligent person can debate respectfully even when they don't agree with the other party and come away from the discussion with dignity. Try that.

[Kuwabaraone]

YO! King! The idea is nice, but how about adjusting it so that it's not the high end WSs of other jobs. In other words (using MNK for example) go all the way up to BEFORE the Questable WSs, meaning you stop at the WSs prior to Asuran Fists. In THAT way, you still have to be a MNK to access Asuran Fists. Yeah, it'll still suck that you don't get access to it, but that may be fair to do it that way too. Also, I was thinking that Weapon Mastery could also lower the missing rate by a small percentage, but not increase the Crit Rate (That's Blood Rage). Finally, WARs have YET to unlock the ability to use Eastern Weaponry (G.Katana, Katana) so we can't say they have 'Mastered' all weapons.

KB1

PS. I think I may have posted a little late. Just realized you may have already addressed the 'Quested WS' issue. My bad. T.T)

[kingfury]

@Kuwabaraone: ^^ Thanks for the feedback man / and yea I agree that the very Job specific quested ws such as those (Asuran Fist and the two ranged quested ws's are about the only ones WAR can't use anyway lol ) and Relic, Mythic, and Emp. should stay Job specific. Very cool idea about the acc + too. I agree/
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Oh what a poop throwing fit it would cause if SE gave WARs access to GK and Katana huh lol. You see all the drama I started by just asking for a few more ws's >< It would awesome if they did though hint, hint SE

[noodles355]

If you think by agreeing with part of your opponent's argument that you then lose the argument completely then you are a complete idiot.

"I believe stealing is wrong and that everyone who steals should be immidiatly killed without trial."
You agree with me that stealing is wrong right? But my argument of everyone who does should be killed is obviously retarded. But if you want to argue against me you:ve already lost the argument because you agree with part of it.

Edit: also you say "dont take my word for it and go try it yourself" with regards to your awesome 10k dmg ws. FFXI is run by maths and equations. Tell me exactly what weapon, weaponskill, gear and atmas you use, and against what enemy youuse to achieve this. You keep stating how easy it is and telling people to go try but you never actually tell them how to try, so of course no one is never going to believe you. Either post proof of you doing it yourself or post how you do it so others can try it themselves and make their own conclusion.

As the above post states, even though you try to justify it by saying you used the word "if" the simple fact is that you still implied that much at me. Which was wrong of you to do so.

I will leave this post in saying that the only points you addressed in reply to my previous post were on every subject except the reasons I stated against the inclusion of this JA. You did not reply to any of my post regarding abyssea being the most played area, and the unbalancing of abyssea even-further with this job ability.

You have no valiid arguments for the inclusion of this JA that outweigh the valid arguments against the inclusion of this JA, and thus the argument is over.

The simple fact is that whilst abyssea is already unbalanced, you want to unbalane it even more. I see no possible way you can ever argue or justify making abyssea more unbalanced than it already is.

[Superchicken]

this not only overpowers WAR but is not needed. What war would seriously use something like dancing edge? Even if you dont have the empyerain weapon skill Raging Rush would still be better, but then you gonna say what if i'm fighint a mob weak to piercing, then i'd say polearm penta go go.

Again your asking for too much with this imo. WARs are fine how they are

[noodles355]

[B]The part about an already "imbalanced" Abyssea being in danger of becoming "imbalanced" by WAR being able to effectively trigger most all triggers?

By this comment it's obvious that you believe it's either black or white: it's balanced or it's unbalanced. It can't be slightly one or the other. Let me show you how you are wrong: Inside abyssea with equal gear and ideal atmas, Drg does more damage than Drk. This is a simple fact due to the lack of good drk crit WS and due to Drakesbane being an insane weponskill. They7re both DDs. DD is their primary function. But Drg does more damage. They both have other functions too but in their main function (DDing) Drk is worse. That's unbalanced. If it was balanced they would have equal DD Output. So now they're already unbalanced, I think it's fine to give drg 200DMG 10Dly lance and a 5.0ftp 100%STR WSC 8 hit critical weaponskill. They're already unbalanced so nothing changes.
Oh wait it does because where it was slightly unbalanced before it is now completely rediculously unbalanced. Do you understand yet? It doesn't go from "unbalanced" to "unbalanced". It goes from "unbalanced" to "even more unbalanced".

The fear that other jobs will no longer be invited to Abyssea events if a WAR could even further efficiently trigger Red and Blue? (Which is just silly)

It's not silly. Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs. IT would be exactly the same thing here. Yeah, you dont have to take a War but war would be the most preferred job and given the choice its the one people would always take,

I really don:t know if I can spell out those points any simpler for you. You have yet to provide a counter-argment with points that outweigh the problems listed by me and the other posters in this thread.
You are pig-headed and not open to criticism. You cant see the forest for the trees.