WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[noodles355]

If you think by agreeing with part of your opponent's argument that you then lose the argument completely then you are a complete idiot.

"I believe stealing is wrong and that everyone who steals should be immidiatly killed without trial."
You agree with me that stealing is wrong right? But my argument of everyone who does should be killed is obviously retarded. But if you want to argue against me you:ve already lost the argument because you agree with part of it.

Edit: also you say "dont take my word for it and go try it yourself" with regards to your awesome 10k dmg ws. FFXI is run by maths and equations. Tell me exactly what weapon, weaponskill, gear and atmas you use, and against what enemy youuse to achieve this. You keep stating how easy it is and telling people to go try but you never actually tell them how to try, so of course no one is never going to believe you. Either post proof of you doing it yourself or post how you do it so others can try it themselves and make their own conclusion.

As the above post states, even though you try to justify it by saying you used the word "if" the simple fact is that you still implied that much at me. Which was wrong of you to do so.

I will leave this post in saying that the only points you addressed in reply to my previous post were on every subject except the reasons I stated against the inclusion of this JA. You did not reply to any of my post regarding abyssea being the most played area, and the unbalancing of abyssea even-further with this job ability.

You have no valiid arguments for the inclusion of this JA that outweigh the valid arguments against the inclusion of this JA, and thus the argument is over.

The simple fact is that whilst abyssea is already unbalanced, you want to unbalane it even more. I see no possible way you can ever argue or justify making abyssea more unbalanced than it already is.

[Superchicken]

this not only overpowers WAR but is not needed. What war would seriously use something like dancing edge? Even if you dont have the empyerain weapon skill Raging Rush would still be better, but then you gonna say what if i'm fighint a mob weak to piercing, then i'd say polearm penta go go.

Again your asking for too much with this imo. WARs are fine how they are

[Kuwabaraone]

...your asking for too much with this imo. WARs are fine how they are

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills.

KB1

[noodles355]

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills.

KB1

The problem is you're thinking about what would be cool without accepting the consequences. If you actually stopped and looked at how it would adversely affect other jobs then you would see it's not a good idea.

[Leebo]

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills.

KB1

WAR's don't NEED to go much further, they're great as they are and that's partly why other jobs have more attention on them with updates. Dancing Edge on WAR? Really? I agree with noodles here, its a cool idea but only from WAR's perspective, and would be a slap in the face for other jobs. We already have a lot of proc WS to make us incredibly versatile but covering all bases is just a little too much for just one job.

[Superchicken]

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills.

KB1

war is a weapon specialist in the terms that they can use more weapons and have higher skill rating in more weapons than any other job. You don't need every WS to be a specialist with that weapon. You specialize in the use of many weapons not the use of many WS's even though you do that too but it doesn't need to be every weapon skill, thats what makes other jobs unique. You want Dancing Edge you level THF or DNC, you want asuran fists you level monk, etc. Jobs need somekind of uniqueness amongst them one job cant have it all.

[noodles355]

[B]The part about an already "imbalanced" Abyssea being in danger of becoming "imbalanced" by WAR being able to effectively trigger most all triggers?

By this comment it's obvious that you believe it's either black or white: it's balanced or it's unbalanced. It can't be slightly one or the other. Let me show you how you are wrong: Inside abyssea with equal gear and ideal atmas, Drg does more damage than Drk. This is a simple fact due to the lack of good drk crit WS and due to Drakesbane being an insane weponskill. They7re both DDs. DD is their primary function. But Drg does more damage. They both have other functions too but in their main function (DDing) Drk is worse. That's unbalanced. If it was balanced they would have equal DD Output. So now they're already unbalanced, I think it's fine to give drg 200DMG 10Dly lance and a 5.0ftp 100%STR WSC 8 hit critical weaponskill. They're already unbalanced so nothing changes.
Oh wait it does because where it was slightly unbalanced before it is now completely rediculously unbalanced. Do you understand yet? It doesn't go from "unbalanced" to "unbalanced". It goes from "unbalanced" to "even more unbalanced".

The fear that other jobs will no longer be invited to Abyssea events if a WAR could even further efficiently trigger Red and Blue? (Which is just silly)

It's not silly. Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs. IT would be exactly the same thing here. Yeah, you dont have to take a War but war would be the most preferred job and given the choice its the one people would always take,

I really don:t know if I can spell out those points any simpler for you. You have yet to provide a counter-argment with points that outweigh the problems listed by me and the other posters in this thread.
You are pig-headed and not open to criticism. You cant see the forest for the trees.

[kingfury]

By this comment it's obvious that you believe it's either black or white: it's balanced or it's unbalanced. It can't be slightly one or the other. Let me show you how you are wrong: Inside abyssea with equal gear and ideal atmas, Drg does more damage than Drk. This is a simple fact due to the lack of good drk crit WS and due to Drakesbane being an insane weponskill. They7re both DDs. DD is their primary function. But Drg does more damage. They both have other functions too but in their main function (DDing) Drk is worse. That's unbalanced. If it was balanced they would have equal DD Output. So now they're already unbalanced, I think it's fine to give drg 200DMG 10Dly lance and a 5.0ftp 100%STR WSC 8 hit critical weaponskill. They're already unbalanced so nothing changes.
Oh wait it does because where it was slightly unbalanced before it is now completely rediculously unbalanced. Do you understand yet? It doesn't go from "unbalanced" to "unbalanced". It goes from "unbalanced" to "even more unbalanced".It's not silly. Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs. IT would be exactly the same thing here. Yeah, you dont have to take a War but war would be the most preferred job and given the choice its the one people would always take,
I really don:t know if I can spell out those points any simpler for you. You have yet to provide a counter-argment with points that outweigh the problems listed by me and the other posters in this thread.
You are pig-headed and not open to criticism. You cant see the forest for the trees.

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I'll be quick on this one. Who in the world taught you how to form an argument??!! These points are horrible man. At this point I'm concerned greatly that I'm having an argument with a 12 year old due to the fact you still can't have a discussion without the kiddy name calling lol, but I'll wrap this up quickly.
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The point I'm trying to help you understand is that YES, it absolutely can be black or white in terms of trying to whine about a misguided sense of achieving "some" balance in a zone that PROMOTES imbalance. It's very black and white in fact. It IS either a balanced area or it's NOT. If it's in fact not a balanced area, then just toss your argument out the window man, it's a wasted effort. Again, and again, I've explained that Abyssea was in no way designed to be the least bit a balanced area, so you can't put a gauge on "HOW IMBALANCED" the zone is. You're example just describes what kind of dmg Emp. weapons pull off inside Abyssea zones which is nearly impossible to reach dmg without one.
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If you somehow missed the 1st part of my original post that gives valid reasons for this JA being introduce due some blinding brain blockage in your eyes, I can understand. Like I said before though, there is no actual understanding that you're trying to reach, so me posting every screenshot in the world wouldn't help in the slightest to curb your unwillingness to reach a common understanding on this topic. I posted a friggin super clear short story recently addressing everything you
talked about, so I'm really sure there's no simpler way that I can explain further for ya. Now watch this... it was nice conversing with ya man, and I'm sorry I couldn't help ya reach some understanding of my views. End. That's how grown ups end conversations.

[Gallus]

I got through the first few pages of replies. In short, I don't like the idea. It really wouldn't make much sense that the WAR would suddenly be able to use weaponskills, then abruptly not be able to. It's not like they're pulling out a book mid-battle (*cough*SCH*cough*), or suddenly shifting their feet to gain access to an array of attacks they have been lacking, then suddenly resifting to lose these attacks. Yes it's a fantasy game that has dragons, giant plant creatures, and hairy infant player characters, but from a battle standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Superchicken]

Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs.

what kind merit parties were you in. Nin no thanks. why would you want a nin in a ToAU bird merit pt? give me a cor over the nin any day and if i cant get a cor i'd take double brd over nin still. NIN would be at the bottom of the barrel for a bird merit pt. I'll go even further and not take the sam in my pt either. Give me a RDM,Cor,BRD, (another COR or BRD), WAR, and KC ranger at lvl 75 and i'll show you a ToAU bird merit. Nin by no means should be a standard sought after job for a ToAU bird merit pt back in those times