dev1024 - healing magic

[Daniel]

make is so whms can't cast refresh and convert, give me an enfeeble worth casting and I won't ask for cure V.

[cidbahamut]

Except RDM never "Enfeebled" even then. It was
Haste
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Cure IV
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Cure IV
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CureIV

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CureIV

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CureIV

So we're back to citing merit parties and/or terrible Red Mages as the core foundations of the argument against giving Red Mage additional tools that would assist party performance and help balance out the death-grip White Mage has on the role of healer? Because seriously, there are twenty jobs in this game and you want me to believe that it's perfectly fine to have exactly one of them capable of performing the duties of healer, which is just silly.

[TRiPP]

Let it be known that past experiences will guide your opinions of future updates, regardless of how much things have changed.

[Feliciaa]

HoT spells would be a great way to deal with this issue instead of giving Rdm cure 5. That way whm is still hands down the best healer regardless of mp conservation and rdm can now some what keep ppl alive.

[Quetzacoatl]

You know, I keep hearing about the whole cureskin argument when backing up WHM in its curing power over RDM, and let me say...

If RDM were to get Cure 5, who cares if they can even get a stoneskin effect or not as long as they have the MP regeneration to support the person's HP bar? What would there be to worry about as long as they have 11MP/Refresh in both gear, AF3+2 Legs and Refresh 2 Spell, along with the extra Minikin Monstrosity Atma inside Abyssea (an additional 10 MP refresh)? That's 21 MP/Tic if you don't have a Subligar with Refresh+1. Then it would be 22 MP/Tic, and you would already have regained half of the MP cost of Cure 5 in just three seconds over the base recast time Cure 5 has. In 6 seconds flat that's approximately 132 MP returned.

I should also add that this would take /SCH's MP conservation to newer heights with Light Arts up and SCH's Conserve MP Trait running through as a Subjob. That's 33 MP (rounded down) shaved off when it kicks in. So effectively you could almost NEVER run out of MP spamming Cure 5.

Not to mention, with the cherry on top, Atma of the Rescuer would stack on top of a decent Cure Potency set with that Cure Potency+10%, on top of a Fast Cast effect (8~10%) to keep the target's remaining amount of HP topped long enough to, again, keep the MP Flow going. And IF we were to get our enfeebles to work come the next update, we'd already be doing what WHMs were already doing in Abyssea with Tier 1 Paralyze and Slow. We'd just be in their shoes again, just with a load of Refresh on our backs. =\

Oh, and don't tell me Cure 5 will be just as good outside for RDM. Cure 4's there for that, and Cure 6 to WHM is Cure 5 for RDM in that instance- It would be far too powerful to even be MP-efficient before Abyssea.

Square-Enix, I would advise you to look into the regen line of spells and create something based off a mix of Cures and Regen for Red Mage. Kind of like what you did with Helix/Kaustra, except for Enhancing Magic.

[saevel]

As I've said before, those advocating for "Just give RDM Cure V" have no intention of playing the job. They only care about two things, one being that they have a replacement for WHM as a main healer, and the other being that they can use RDM to get gear for their "real" undesired jobs. RDM and BRD has historically suffered from the bandwagon mentality, with people jumping on to use it as an easy ride into HNM shells and eventually merit parties (once merits were invented). And every since Abyssea became popular these people have since used WHM, BLM and NIN to accomplish the same thing. This is evidenced at the ridiculous price jumps in all the WHM / BLM / NIN spells, especially the yellow proc ones.

I'd prefer that SCH got access to Cure V under addendum white and SE just give RDM the rest of the Regen spells and a special RDM only super regen. We don't need to be replacing WHM's as main healers, we need to be supporting them.

[SpankWustler]

So effectively you could almost NEVER run out of MP spamming Cure 5.

Inside Abyssea, this is true of pretty much any job casting pretty much anything. Well, excluding a Dark Knight casting Impact or a Black Mage cycling through expensive proc spells as fast as possible.

I agree that giving each job with support elements a unique solution to the issue of "People be losing HP, brosef!" would be best, though. White Mage has brute-force HP restoration, Scholar could have Humpty Hump's Healing Helix, and Red Mage could have Stoneskin II and some other enhancing magic to prevent HP loss in the first place.

They could all work together to heal people optimally when in a party or alliance and in their free time they could form Captain Planet.

For something that's generally difficult and requires 6+ people to do efficiently, such as VoidWatch, White Mage being the only viable healer works fine. Having exactly one healer that works in Abyssea, which is very laid-back content otherwise, is kind of lame.

Other jobs receiving Cure V would be a really boring solution and far from my first choice, but I'd be okay with it compared to the current situation.

[Quetzacoatl]

I hear you on that one, Spank. As someone else said:

We don't need to be replacing WHM's as main healers, we need to be supporting them.

[cidbahamut]

HoT spells would be a great way to deal with this issue instead of giving Rdm cure 5. That way whm is still hands down the best healer regardless of mp conservation and rdm can now some what keep ppl alive.

Except not really. When a monster swings and puts people in the red and you need them back up to at least yellow right away, Cure IV and even a Regen IV isn't going to cut it. The only way healing over time could make up the deficiency is if it was so monstrously powerful that it had White Mages in a fit over us stealing their Regen thunder. I'm talking hundreds of hp per tic, lasts more than a couple seconds kind of healing over time. I'm not sure that would be at all permissible from a game balance perspective.

You know, I keep hearing about the whole cureskin argument when backing up WHM in its curing power over RDM, and let me say...

If RDM were to get Cure 5, who cares if they can even get a stoneskin effect or not as long as they have the MP regeneration to support the person's HP bar? What would there be to worry about as long as they have 11MP/Refresh in both gear, AF3+2 Legs and Refresh 2 Spell, along with the extra Minikin Monstrosity Atma inside Abyssea (an additional 10 MP refresh)? That's 21 MP/Tic if you don't have a Subligar with Refresh+1. Then it would be 22 MP/Tic, and you would already have regained half of the MP cost of Cure 5 in just three seconds over the base recast time Cure 5 has. In 6 seconds flat that's approximately 132 MP returned.

One tic is equal to three seconds.

Please don't use incorrect math to confuse people like this.

You're only going to get back at most 44 mp over those six seconds, and that's only if you don't cast anything else during that time.

[cidbahamut]

As I've said before, those advocating for "Just give RDM Cure V" have no intention of playing the job.

Do you really believe this?