Rudra's Storm mods

[Byrth]

Easy fix for SA and TA would be to turn them into a forced crit from any direction, but not give the DEX or AGI bonus if their current activation conditions weren't met.

[Karbuncle]

Easy fix for SA and TA would be to turn them into a forced crit from any direction, but not give the DEX or AGI bonus if their current activation conditions weren't met.

I like my Idea >:|

But that one is nice too... Would really help some weaponskills, While not breaking some, and its not ridiculously broken.

[Byrth]

If THF was reliably able to force Rudra's to crit every ~30 seconds without spending time circling the monster and asking their friends to move closer to it, stop spinning it, etc., it would be a big boost to their damage and a big load off the annoying-ness factor of catering to a THF.

[SpankWustler]

I guess since this topic took off, I'll post my outright opinion rather than trying to explain a bit of reasoning I don't even agree with.

Making some of a job's weapon skills weaker because a job has abilities to enhance weapon skills is fist-fight-over-a-pudding-cup retarded. Especially considering Sneak Attack and Trick Attack are Thief's only damaging abilities.

Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, and Climactic Flourish exist primarily to increase weapon skill damage. Not to make a toned down weapon skill's damage acceptable compared to other options.

At the very least, Rudra's Storm could use an fTP boost at 100% to put on it par with Blade: Hi's fTP. That would maintain Rudra's Storm's synergy with those job abilities, but make the process feel like a reward for using a job ability rather than a punishment for using Rudra's Storm without one.

[Atomic_Skull]

"Description: Deals Heavy damage and weighs target down. Chance of Critical hit Varies with TP
Modifiers: 60% DEX
fTP: 5.0"
(While we're at it, do this for Mercy Stroke too, keep Mercy Stroke STR mod though)

I disagree about Mercy Stroke. Get rid of the hidden 25% Ws damage multiplier they tacked onto it back at lvl 90 (this was a ghetto solution imo) Leave the fTP at 3.0 and change it to accurately reflect the actual number of hits in the animation. Change it to TP = chance of critical hit.

In fact, do this for all relic WS, increase duration and potency of the aftermath and change the double/triple damage proc from 5% to 20%. Weapons with useless/detrimental added effects like poison should also have their added effect changed to something that is actually useful. e.g. plauge effect on Mandau rather than poison (go back and make that change at lvl 75 rather than 95, that was a mistake that should have never existed in the first place)

[Atomic_Skull]

I don't know, Maybe I'm a unique THF, I just don't understand why everyone's so comfortable Rudra's being a steaming pile of Mediocre unless its stacked... I don't mind it replacing Evisc, or DE, thats what i want it to do in fact.

I'm sure no WAR complains they don't get to use Raging Rush anymore... No MNK complains Victory Smite out-classes Asuran/Tornado... I would think.

I think a modest boost to Rudra's that would allow it to be more powerful than Evisc/DE unstacked isn't asking too much from SE, It would only server to help THF. Its not going to make THF better than WAR or MNK, But It'll help THF in a small way, which is what it needs.

Again, Like my proposed adjustment above, It would make Rudra's a fierce unstacked WS, but it would not make it any more powerful stacked than it is now. It would keep it useable a lot more often, allowing Thwast THFs to keep up Aftermath without sacrificing damage where applicable.

Chance of critical hit varies with TP

Damage varies with TP

Pick one, you can't have both. If you get your wish and they make Rudra's a TP=critical WS then you can say goodbye to fTP 3.25~5.25. Extra TP will just gain you an extra 10-15% critical hit rate and you won't be seeing 6k+ Rudras anymore.

Know what would be better than changing Rudras?

An ability that:

Forces a critical hit on the next WS regardless of direction.
Changes STR/Attack relationship to 1:1 on the next WS.
Has a 20 second cooloff and shares it's recast timer with Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.

[Atomic_Skull]

3k Rudra's in Abyssea should make you sad, not jealous. Look at this thread, haha.

If they bumped up Rudra's base fTP by 1 and let it crit hit, I'd only need 1 WS macro.

All piercing weak peon mobs on that thread. Someone in my LS did over 10k to Ironclad Cleaver with Mercy Stroke. When you take away the *1.5 damage that's still over 7k to an iron giant. (I imagine he must have been using temps and Assassin's Charge to do that though)

[noodles355]

Nonsense. VS is still very effective used by a PUP and is far better than the previous best WS

Smite has effectively 5.25 FTP (2.25+1+1+1) and 60% STR WSC.
Pummel has effectlvely 5.75 FPT (0.75+1+1+1+1+1) and 32% STR 32% VIT WSC.
I wouldn't call that "Far better".

[Karbuncle]

Firstly I'd like to mirror Spankwustler's sentiments, they hit the nail on the head with my argument. SA and TA should make good WS's Great, not Mediocre Weaponskills "Acceptable". The purposeful weakening of our Weaponskills because of those abilities is getting old.

Chance of critical hit varies with TP

Damage varies with TP

You confuse me Atom! From the first post you quoted I was for "Change it to crit with a high fTP mod".

Later on Byrth suggested a Raise in the fTP to 4.25~4.5 but keep the rest similar (I.E a flat 1.0 increase to fTP across the board), or, an increase to 1.0fTP, Which i also agreed with. So i like both ideas, and either or would work!

Pick one, you can't have both.

You can have "Critical hit WS" with "Damage varies with TP". Look at True Strike... "Deals Critical Damage(critical hit 100%). Accuracy Varies with TP". So we could have both, if they made it 100% Crit. Which i do doubt however.

I still think a 5.0fTP Chance of crit WS would not break Rudra's, It'd make it respectable unstacked, but stacked damage would remain the same, in fact 0.25fTP Weaker than it is now at 300%!

But this make indeed be asking a bit too much...

If you get your wish and they make Rudra's a TP=critical WS then you can say goodbye to fTP 3.25~5.25. Extra TP will just gain you an extra 10-15% critical hit rate and you won't be seeing 6k+ Rudras anymore.

Speculation! There is no proof to this, its only a pessimistic point of view. Why do you think that a already terribly weak weaponskill unstacked will have to be nerfed in order to make it useful unstacked?

Maybe back in the days of CoP, I'd of agreed with you, But not today. The Dev has some hope...

Know what would be better than changing Rudras?

An ability that:

Forces a critical hit on the next WS regardless of direction.
Changes STR/Attack relationship to 1:1 on the next WS.
Has a 20 second cooloff and shares it's recast timer with Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.

those still fall in line with the main problem i try to address with the weaponskil. I do like the general idea though, Very much.

To make it clearer, WAR doesn't need any Job ability active to make ukko's outperform Raging Rush, MNK Vic / Asuran, THF should not need a job ability to make their mediocre DD abilities less mediocre. The job is already bottom of the barrel, Restricting it more and more is just what I'd like to avoid.

I just have faith SE would update the WS and not be Old-team bad. A lot has changed, Increasing Critical hit Damage cap to 100%, increasing Fast cast Cap, etc. A lot of that stuff makes me believe we don't need to sacrifice anything to make this WS useful. It can happen, and its not asking for anything that other jobs don't already have. (Again, aside from the ones already explained)

Also Again, I like your idea, It would actually be pretty well, It still kinda falls in line with the aspect of limiting the abilities, but there is a lot of freedom in it, so i don't hate it at all. However, with Rudra's, It would still need a little fTP boost @ 100% TP to make it useable over Evisc/DE without sacrificing damage on WS for Aftermath.

Thanks for reading!

[Leonlionheart]

All piercing weak peon mobs on that thread. Someone in my LS did over 10k to Ironclad Cleaver with Mercy Stroke. When you take away the *1.5 damage that's still over 7k to an iron giant. (I imagine he must have been using temps and Assassin's Charge to do that though)

If it's only *1.5 damage, that means my Ukko's would've normally done 11.5k! While not unbelievable on Visions or Scars mobs, that's pretty hard to believe on high defense mobs like Ironclads.

No, more like *2, and more realistically more like *2.5 considering their defense and the lack of attack that THF gets. I think I read somewhere that it's actually *3 though, which makes that damage pretty sad.