Artifact Armor 4 idea

[Zhronne]

Static upgrades please!

Oh and while we're talking about Relic armour upgrades, don't forget about Nyzul, Limbus and especially Salvage armour! This last kind was very hard to obtain back then, sounds fair for those pieces (or at least a few of them) to receive the same kind of attention you guys are now delivering to relic armour

I don't get why almost everybody is so worried about the fact of Relic armour sucking for the most part. I mean, it's not like we have to full-time these new upcoming relic armour +2, do we? Maybe we will for some pieces, but the goal here is to make those items better than they are now as situational/macro pieces, which seems like a good idea to me.
Also, I think people who were thinking about +1>+2 comparing it to the NQ>+1 are really off track.
NQ>+1 was a laughable and minimal increase, with a few noticeable exceptions. I think the +1>+2 upgrade will be a much better increase of stats, and will probably not focus just on increasing the currently existing stats, but adding new one (especially Job Specific bonuses to traits, abilities and spells)

[Darkvalkyr]

Karb, if all you want is just a 'narrowed down random system' then it may as well be static or else frustration ensues for everyone. If the range of goodness is that small, if someone wants to min-max he might end up having to repeat content until he gets it.

The example posted 'If I have to kill 25 NMs, I'll get it, every NM I kill is one step of the way' vs. 'If I've killed 25 NMs, every NM I kill that doesn't drop it leaves me right where I started' is the most fitting argument here. I want to work for something and be guaranteed it, rather than to end up with mediocre crap.

I notice you keep mentioning mediocre if we go the way of static. If SE goes the way of static, then this mediocre gear is already the best upgrade - or perhaps the only upgrade to the armor. So there's nothing mediocre about it.

If SE DOES make Relic +1 -> Relic +2 the same way how Relic -> Relic +1, then I agree that a lot of armor gets left in the dust - but the difference here is it's not a difference of 1~2 levels worth of stats, it's a whole 20. I'd expect them to change the stats around like they did with Artifact -> Artifact +1.

In my opinion though, I'd rather work on getting something to get something definite instead of the chance that for all of that work, I'd get nothing useful. If you wanted a reason why I'm against random, this is it.

I would like pickable augments though, more than anything.

But seriously, all this discussion is going in circles about Random Vs. Static. I understand that you don't want complete randomness but a narrowed down, more ensured 'you always benefit' random and that's perfectly fine - I might even be for it depending - but the debate's going nowhere until SE tells us about what the stats will be.

Gawd, this feels like discussing Carbon Taxes down under...

[Leonlionheart]

It's really impossible to pick between the two without examples of their strength and how to obtain them. The only information we have to go on, and the biggest deciding factors, are difficulty obtaining, theoretical difference in utility, the "chance" factor versus the work=100% reward factor, and storability. The biggest reason Static is so popular is work=100% reward and storability.

However, if we were given options with examples, things would be different.

Static would read:
Warrior's Lorica +2:
[Body] All Races
DEF: 65 HP+30 Attack+20 Enmity+12
Enhances "Aggressor" effect (Adds JA Haste +3% and Critical Rate +3% to Aggressor, along with the existing effect)
Lv.95 WAR

While random would read:
Warrior's Lorica
[Body] All Races
DEF: 50 HP+10 Attack+10 Enmity+4
Enhances "Aggressor" effect
Stat set 1: HP+15~35 Attack+7~12 Enmity+6~12
Stat set 2: "Aggressor": Haste+0~6%, Critical Rate+0~6%
Lv.95 WAR
when Stat set 1: can only have a total of +40 numbers shared between HP attack and enmity (I.E. HP+20, Attack+10, Enmity+10, or HP+15, Attack+15, Enmity+10, or HP+25, Attack+7, Enmity+8) and Stat set 2: can only have a total of +6% (I.E. Haste+6%, or Critical Rate+6%, or Haste+4%, Critical Rate+2%, or any combination of the two as long as they total +6%)

I think those choices would be MUCH harder to choose between than the chance at having nothing vs always getting something for your work.

[Zhronne]

I think those choices would be MUCH harder to choose between than the chance at having nothing vs always getting something for your work.

Maybe I'm not hardcore enough, maybe I suck, maybe something else, but I'd still pick static no matter what.

[kingfury]

My comments stand from my previous post even if Synergy isn't the decided method of augmentation.

It CAN be random augments, but only if it's a new and creative system that allows the players the chance to enhance their odds of actually getting something worthwhile during augmentation (examples are in my last post). The consensus agrees the previous "Random systems" we've seen before are very frustrating and poorly designed in terms of enjoyment and payoff for the effort put in.

It CAN be "powerful" static augments so long as the path to unlock them is worthy of the prize. You don't have to make it easy for us Devs, so there's no reason the static augments should be weak.

To clarify: If it's a NEW and IMPROVED "Random system", then I vote Random.
If the Static augments are powerful, but VERY tough to get, then I vote Static.

[SNK]

Except that, in many cases twilight beat black belt and brown belt.

Full AF3+2 + Black Belt VS Zelus tiara/ AF3+2 body hands legs feet + twilight

15 subtle blow 14 str -5% pdt 3/1024 haste 2% KA rate VS -5 eva 15% 2% DA

If fstr and attack cap twilight easily wins, but you wouldn't know that seeing as you are attached to your trophy item.

Also for badguardian, the JSE neck was shown to be better than faith torque. So again more trophy.

No. No. Just hell No. If you're a full AF3+2 MNK and you're using a Twilight Belt over a Black Belt much less a Brown Belt you are 100% retarded.

[MarkovChain]

It takes about 10000 "Feed Earth Fewell"s to reach level 80 Synergy. I can understand why people wouldn't want to do it.

If they don't have the patience to get synergy to 80, they won't have the patience to farm any of the static gear. I just find it funny that the same people that refuse random also use synergy as an argument against it. I'm putting money on hundreds/thousands of dynamis currency for a single piece, and after that you'll see a bunch of QQ crying how they don't have money to buy currency, they don't have friend to farm with or dynamis is too hard because they can't solo it.

SE is trying to lead the game out of abyssea and it's going to make a nice chunk of butthurts. If you read camate's post they clearly have in mind to make relic +2 not accessible to the first guy you meat in jeuno that spams NPC for their seals.

[Byrth]

If they don't have the patience to get synergy to 80, they won't have the patience to farm any of the static gear. I just find it funny that the same people that refuse random also use synergy as an argument against it. I'm putting money on hundreds/thousands of dynamis currency for a single piece, and after that you'll see a bunch of QQ crying how they don't have money to buy currency, they don't have friend to farm with or dynamis is too hard because they can't solo it.

SE is trying to lead the game out of abyssea and it's going to make a nice chunk of butthurts. If you read camate's post they clearly have in mind to make relic +2 not accessible to the first guy you meat in jeuno that spams NPC for their seals.

I farm Dynamis solo daily. Dynamis is fun because the battle system is still fun and I get to fight and push for efficiency with a time limit.

Synergy was designed to be a re-vamp of the crafting system. Make it more interactive and a little more skill based, as opposed to just combining the right ingredients with the right crystal and waiting for the random number generator to spit out another break on a recipe you passed the cap of 5 years ago. By and large I agree that Synergy is more fun than normal crafting. The problem is that sitting there and spamming a menu 10,000 times before you can make anything worthwhile is boring. My first attempt at skilling Synergy on my mule only got me to level 2 before I gave up out of boredom, yet I can farm Dynamis daily without complaint.

I finally got Synergy to level 80 in anticipation of the Salvage and AF2 upgrades, but I'd be just as happy as anyone else to see SE not go down that path. I don't really want to end up Synergizing stuff for everyone I know, but I also wouldn't ask them to navigate a crappy menu system 10,000 times just so they can do it themselves.

[MarkovChain]

I farm dynamis daily too and we are starting our second relic, and yes it's fun. Anyway I doubt currency is going to be involved, my bet in on NMs in cop dynamis.

Synergy is not really a way to revamp crafting, it's a cheap way to craft and the good thing about it is rare/ex equippement crafting.
Many high end items require several people with capped standart craft skill too. My point is that capping synergy is a giant grind, easily accessible, easily plannable, yet all the whinners are against it or seem to hate it so I think something is wrong.

[Valisk]

I would love the ability to pick static augments for our existing AF3+2 armor like we did for Moonshade Earring, Nuevo Coselete, Royal Redingote, and Mirke Wardecors. It prevents our AF3 from being obsolete as well as allows players to customize each piece to fit their playstyle. Allowing us to pick our augments would create a degree of uniqueness as well.