[DEV1234]Lift the delay/haste cap

[Jar]

Glad everyone agreed with my first post :x lmao

[Runespider]

Just because "new content won't be in abyssea" doesn't mean that abyssea itself will no longer be of significance or importance. You say "abysssea is done" as if we suddenly won't be doing it anymore.

I think the point is more that it's so easy to cap out on gear (even emps) that nobody will do much aside from XP in there soon, looking at the 12 month road map that is actually very bad cause there isn't much else coming of consequence.

[Zagen]

While new content requires more accuracy, food resolves most of these issues. Other than that, there aren't many situations where you're sacrificing less than 25% Haste options for accuracy. Furthermore, if these NMs are as difficult to melee as you're suggesting (I've only participated in new content as a mage, but the melee don't seem to have the accuracy issue you're suggesting arises; i.e. 80% or less), then I imagine they're receiving bard buffs, which will inevitably increase the utility of haste either through stacking delay reduction or covering massive accuracy deficits.

Not everyone has a pocket COR or BRD for buffs. If you can't rely on a BRD or COR to compensate for any issues a melee would have I'd hope they'd rework their gear to compensate.

Also 80% isn't a fixed number it was just the accepted number in the past that needed to be attained before you should look into Haste from gear.

As to food you're right that does help but pizza isn't the solution for every situation, sometimes you want/need more ATK, STR, DEX, sTP, or ACC and need to gear to compensate.

I'll say it again "Gear is Situational" if you want to strive to be the best you look at multiple gear options for a given situation and don't just settle for 1 blanket gear set.

[Rearden]

Gear is situational up until the point you're sacrificing haste for accuracy. At that point you need to bring a better party setup - one that continues to cap your haste and can provide an accuracy buff if Sushi or Pizza isn't providing it.

And Byrth's example is correct, using the current values for haste caps (individually) the game would be better off.

[Yugl]

Not everyone has a pocket COR or BRD for buffs. If you can't rely on a BRD or COR to compensate for any issues a melee would have I'd hope they'd rework their gear to compensate.

Also 80% isn't a fixed number it was just the accepted number in the past that needed to be attained before you should look into Haste from gear.

As to food you're right that does help but pizza isn't the solution for every situation, sometimes you want/need more ATK, STR, DEX, sTP, or ACC and need to gear to compensate.

I'll say it again "Gear is Situational" if you want to strive to be the best you look at multiple gear options for a given situation and don't just settle for 1 blanket gear set.

The argument is de facto. Given the melee I play (DRG, BLU, and more recently, MNK), I don't see any major ACC > Haste situations you wouldn't want to resolve via food. DEX deficit only matters for dDEX sets, which may become relevant in the future, but have become obsolete since the introduction of Abyssea and the steady drive away from Colibri (And only WAR were able to attain that luxury then because they could cap haste while making the necessary gear changes). I didn't imply that people have pocket BRDs; however, if the content is as difficult to melee as he is describing, BRD is an invaluable member, so you're damaging yourself by not bringing one.

[Zagen]

BRD is an invaluable member, so you're damaging yourself by not bringing one.

I don't disagree the point is if BRD or COR isn't an option then gear is which is why blanket statements like "Haste > All" are flawed.

You mentioned BLU now I'm curious do you gear your BLU for melee inside Abyssea the same way for Voidwatch? I'm assuming you're doing Voidwatch as that is the only current content outside of Abyssea that matters at the moment.

[Atomic_Skull]

100% haste would indeed be infinite. The % is subtracted from your delay. If you take say 6 seconds to swing, at 80% haste you would take 1.2 seconds to swing. Which would be as stated earlier 5x your normal actions at 80% haste. At 90% you would take 0.6 seconds to swing. 10x your normal actions. The haste formula is one that approaches infinity the closer you get to 100.

If you took 0 seconds to swing it would be nonstop actions and the mob would die in an instant. If you imposed a restriction on how often an autoattack can initiate say 0.1 seconds is the lowest it could possibly go, then it's not truely 100%. For the 6 second swing example you would only have aprox. 98.3% haste, so it would never truely be 100%.

If it wasn't capped somewhere what would happen is that 100% haste would cause a literal "divide by zero" situation. Whenever someone achieved 100% haste and attacked something the server software would lock up. I think what happened was that the whole issue went unnoticed until people started getting dangerously close to 100% haste and they went in with the intention of just capping it at 99% or something. But once they took a good look at it they said "holy %#&@ that's overpowered" and implemented an 80% cap.

[Covenant]

Why not eliminate all jobs, job abilities, and everything else and give players a big sword that does 999dmg and delay 1? That's gonna be the end results of all these melee gripers wanting more damage and more haste.

Yes, if fun to kill things fast and easy, but you reach a point where you HAVE to look at other avenues of enjoyment. I hadn't even realize that the haste cap was 80%...aiy crumubab.

[Korpg]

Why not eliminate all jobs, job abilities, and everything else and give players a big sword that does 999dmg and delay 1? That's gonna be the end results of all these melee gripers wanting more damage and more haste.

Yes, if fun to kill things fast and easy, but you reach a point where you HAVE to look at other avenues of enjoyment. I hadn't even realize that the haste cap was 80%...aiy crumubab.

Most melees know that having the 80% cap is the best we can get, just hope that they don't do nerf it.
Agreed.

[Yugl]

I don't disagree the point is if BRD or COR isn't an option then gear is which is why blanket statements like "Haste > All" are flawed.

You mentioned BLU now I'm curious do you gear your BLU for melee inside Abyssea the same way for Voidwatch? I'm assuming you're doing Voidwatch as that is the only current content outside of Abyssea that matters at the moment.

I always understood "Haste > All" as a exaggerating the importance of haste. I don't have stats on VW monsters and, as mentioned earlier, I've only participated as a mage (Specifically, SCH). Hence, I haven't built my set for VW on BLU, but I do have macros ready for when I do. Previous statements come from witnessing other melees participating in VW.