Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Malamasala]

SMN gear is horrible for melee. Best that SMNs can get is either 22% haste or ~40 accuracy. Nothing to melee on Orthus with.

Works perfectly to melee on Alfard though. As always you got to pick your mobs. Most would claim you feed too much TP though, so regardless of NM, they want you away from it. SE really needs to make SMN completely TP free, so we don't have to listen to the whining of others. We are perfectly capable of whining ourselves, you know.

[Logandor]

About the update, looking forward to the new stuff for whm but still feeling like drg is getting a little short ended again :/ Granted we can go into aby and support our own on most mobs but to be honest even with me taking extra care to ensure my comrade (Ember) survives she still dosen't breath hard enough on her breath attacks to make too much of a difference. I am glad to see they are looking into helping us keep our little flying buddies alive but may I please stress if her healing breath was 4 or 5 it would make soloing aby pages a little more simpler on us who are not wanted in aby parties mainly do to fact we can't survive on our own or can't help the alliance. -->has seen this happen before to more then a few dragoons, more then once. Any who I am glad they are at least not leaving drg out on the update. This should be helpful in at least one way or another.
Whm oh hell yeah when I saw that I was going sweet man can't wait. Is there though ever going to be something we can do to help our tanks on the tiger nm out in the range on amnesia though so they can proc for the atma? Just wondering.
Thf well it sounds interesting though sense I have not personally been on thf long enough to have an opinion on it just say lets see how it goes.
All the rest, curiosity killed the cat and can't wait to see.

[Razushu]

Works perfectly to melee on Alfard though. As always you got to pick your mobs. Most would claim you feed too much TP though, so regardless of NM, they want you away from it. SE really needs to make SMN completely TP free, so we don't have to listen to the whining of others. We are perfectly capable of whining ourselves, you know.

It would be nice if they gave our avatars Subtle blow traits, our make them BLM/MNK or something that improves their DPS.

[Louispv]

We plan to broaden the range of monsters that beastmasters can coax into becoming their pets.

Very cool that we'll get more charmables. Probably only the greater beast that should have been charmable in the first place, yet weren't for some reason, though. Peiste, gnats, bugards, gnoles, etc. We still won't have any undead/demon/arcana/dragon/beastmen/sea/empty/abyssean pets I wager.

My main question is, "will this be at all useful?" Will we ever be able to charm these things for anything but for fun? There are no charmables in dynamis/ limbus/ sea/ indoor sky/ salvage and nyzul (despite 90% of them being charmable elsewhere)/ voidwatch / einherjar/ abyssea/ and just the vast majority of normal zones. So there are no charmable monsters in the game, functionally, since there are no charmable monsters in any zone anyone spends any time in. Even in events that take place in normal zones full of charmables, such as voidwatch and field parchment fights, the confrontation status effect disables the charm ability. (because you cannot act on non confrontation enemies)

Will I simply go charm a buffalo, giggle to myself, then leave it and forget this adjustment? Or is SE going to remember that ability BST has had since level 1 when designing content?

Furthermore, we'd like to see beastmasters shed their reputation as lone wolves by endowing their pets with more abilities that provide assistance to party members.

Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor. Do not redo Avatar's Favor.

Seriously, do not make us weaken our pets to buff the party. Have the party enhancements be ready moves. Have the party enhancements be a job ability. Have them expend an item, (that is cheap and stacks to 99) I don't care. We're already weak enough, do not weaken us further just for a party buff.

A new ability to call forth pets that, like the avatars Odin and Alexander, immediately use their characteristic ability then disappear.

Choco-meteor/ white wind (full hp/mp refill)/ 10,000 needles anyone? Don't even care if I have to use familiar first to do that.

Adding more pet-specific abilities.

If we're a WAR that focuses on pets instead of wepaons, a pet specific berserk/aggressor/bloodrage would be easiest. Spur was a good start. Don't weaken the master to enhance the pets though, or you're going against your second previous sentence.

Revising the effects of the Familiar ability.

About damn time. All it does to jugs is max pet hp+10%. If the pet isn't at full health when you use it, it doesn't even refill the hp. Having your pet use it's 2 hour ability would be nice. Ex. Perfect dodge for yuly, hundred fists for merle, mighty strikes for everything else really, all of our current jugs are WAR.

Weapon skill refinements

Please, oh please be talking about cloudsplitter!

Who's bright Idea was it to make an empyrian ws weaker than Primal rend? How is the nyzul ws stronger than the one on a weapon that beats relics? When every other empyrian ws reliably does 2k-5k damage (with occasional 10k damage ukko's) how is an 800 damage ws at all acceptable? And it does half that on anything with magic defense bonus/lightning resistance/ shell. Raging axe does more damage most of the time, for Pete's sake! You know, the level 1 WS?

It's not like elemental ws's suck. Primal rend does about 100-200 more than cloudsplitter, and I'd be happy with that. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to do less than 1500 with wildfire. Bump cloudplitter up to 1200 damage naked with no atmas, or just make it physical damage, please!

[Selzak]

I'm curious why jobs defined as "hybrid" jobs don't operate on stances to divide their capabilities. PLD and DRK have both consistently been the most confused jobs in application, despite being a couple of the most obvious jobs in what they're meant to be.

Both PLD and DRK should have a magical/support/survival stance, along with a melee/attack/offense stance.

While playing DRK (and I assume the same holds true for PLD), I feel like a have a ton of superfluous abilities and spells and none of them quite get the job done. Instead of having all of that fluff at once, the job should definitely be broken into two categories where a DRK is allowed to fit one role or the other, but now actually accomplish it well.

One stance should allow the DRK to play a support role and take care of itself against weaker enemies. Making Dread Spikes last longer (wouldn't hurt to nerf the spell beforehand), Stuns more readily available, and spells more useful in general while gaining a weak Refresh and Casting Time- along with a Store TP- and Weapon Delay+ or something. Could also lock out some abilities, like Souleater. This is the stance where Elemental Weapon Skills could surpass Physical Weapon Skills, where the Elemental Weapon Skills might gain a small boost and Physical Weapon Skills a noticeable decline in damage- perhaps through a reduction to Attack.

The other stance could focus on the small aspects of the job that are hurting its melee endeavors at the moment. Spells like Dread Spikes could be locked, and all spells could be given a longer recast time. Here the DRK should get a boost to Critical Attack Rate (the job screams critical attacks in the first place- it's supposed to deal spike damage)- this should definitely apply to Weapon Skills, since that's the priority. The idea with this stance is purely physical damage. The DRK could be required to stand anywhere but in front of the enemy for this stance (not meant to make it hit even harder against weaker opponents- the other stance is for soloing), and gain an enmity reduction to top the stance off and make it worth using in a party.

The 'solo' stance for PLD should allow it to dispatch enemies more readily, while the 'party' stance should grant it some form of damage reduction (or something) to make it on par (and possibly better, through magical damage reduction) with NIN.


I doubt it should be applied exactly as I posted, but I think the general idea (both for PLD and DRK) is necessary at this point. They seem to be getting jostled all over the place with random abilities that the players either do not want or can not use.

[Korpg]

The idiots burned through a thousand posts without naming a single relevant mob that SMN couldn't cap accuracy on, without sushi. They have resurrected the lie here with the random number "75%." Good for them. It's time for them to shave their heads and make a religion out of it.

Let's let this thread die too.

You have burned thru 500+ posts without proving a damn thing about why you are deluded into thinking you are the best.

Besides, you still haven't answered my question. What is the hardest mob you have soloed? Why are you afraid of answering that question? Is it because the answer truly is Bubbly Bernie?

75% is not a lie, its about the accuracy rate a melee with an A- weapon would have on an IT naked of everything but their weapon. Which is the accuracy rate you would have with the best melee gear possible with your staff. Unless you want to state that you have better accuracy rate than that, then prove it. Abyssea buffs don't count because I'm not talking about just one content, I'm talking about them all.

[Korpg]

Works perfectly to melee on Alfard though. As always you got to pick your mobs. Most would claim you feed too much TP though, so regardless of NM, they want you away from it. SE really needs to make SMN completely TP free, so we don't have to listen to the whining of others. We are perfectly capable of whining ourselves, you know.

Hope you are meleeing on the tail, and not in front though.

Although, cap enmity and you are dead. Not even 2k HP buffs can save you there when you have the def of a soggy paper bag.

[Korpg]

It would be nice if they gave our avatars Subtle blow traits, our make them BLM/MNK or something that improves their DPS.

That would be very nice.

But consider this, a back line SMN with Cure IV is basically a MNK without Victory Smite but elemental damage "WS" instead that can do upwards to 11k constantly, but can also help cure others and doesn't need a raise if dead, nor is weakened after "reviving." The only thing this type of MNK can't do is counter.

[StingRay104]

I'm curious why jobs defined as "hybrid" jobs don't operate on stances to divide their capabilities. PLD and DRK have both consistently been the most confused jobs in application, despite being a couple of the most obvious jobs in what they're meant to be.

Both PLD and DRK should have a magical/support/survival stance, along with a melee/attack/offense stance.

While playing DRK (and I assume the same holds true for PLD), I feel like a have a ton of superfluous abilities and spells and none of them quite get the job done. Instead of having all of that fluff at once, the job should definitely be broken into two categories where a DRK is allowed to fit one role or the other, but now actually accomplish it well.

One stance should allow the DRK to play a support role and take care of itself against weaker enemies. Making Dread Spikes last longer (wouldn't hurt to nerf the spell beforehand), Stuns more readily available, and spells more useful in general while gaining a weak Refresh and Casting Time- along with a Store TP- and Weapon Delay+ or something. Could also lock out some abilities, like Souleater. This is the stance where Elemental Weapon Skills could surpass Physical Weapon Skills, where the Elemental Weapon Skills might gain a small boost and Physical Weapon Skills a noticeable decline in damage- perhaps through a reduction to Attack.

The other stance could focus on the small aspects of the job that are hurting its melee endeavors at the moment. Spells like Dread Spikes could be locked, and all spells could be given a longer recast time. Here the DRK should get a boost to Critical Attack Rate (the job screams critical attacks in the first place- it's supposed to deal spike damage)- this should definitely apply to Weapon Skills, since that's the priority. The idea with this stance is purely physical damage. The DRK could be required to stand anywhere but in front of the enemy for this stance (not meant to make it hit even harder against weaker opponents- the other stance is for soloing), and gain an enmity reduction to top the stance off and make it worth using in a party.

The 'solo' stance for PLD should allow it to dispatch enemies more readily, while the 'party' stance should grant it some form of damage reduction (or something) to make it on par (and possibly better, through magical damage reduction) with NIN.


I doubt it should be applied exactly as I posted, but I think the general idea (both for PLD and DRK) is necessary at this point. They seem to be getting jostled all over the place with random abilities that the players either do not want or can not use.

wow your just repeating a bunch of ideas I posted in my "How to fix drk" thread. The problem is SE isn't listening to what I originally posted, just taken one thing they liked (The part in the magic stance that increased magic att and ele ws damage) and saying to hell with the rest for balance issues. I think in general SE needs to start actually listening to everything we have to say.

P.S. Korpg you made a mistake on your post about how ridiculous it is to ask thf to heal when ppl ask smn to heal. Check Carby out for his heal BP's and also /sch gives yopu ridiculously high heal skill for not having any native and you got tons of mp.

[Razushu]

wow your just repeating a bunch of ideas I posted in my "How to fix drk" thread. The problem is SE isn't listening to what I originally posted, just taken one thing they liked (The part in the magic stance that increased magic att and ele ws damage) and saying to hell with the rest for balance issues. I think in general SE needs to start actually listening to everything we have to say.

P.S. Korpg you made a mistake on your post about how ridiculous it is to ask thf to heal when ppl ask smn to heal. Check Carby out for his heal BP's and also /sch gives yopu ridiculously high heal skill for not having any native and you got tons of mp.

healing skill doesn't really effect any of the healing magic subjobs offer us and /sch for healing is dead in the water unless they make it so we get Cure IV from it