WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[kingfury]

@ Arcon:

This line,
• "But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs."

And this statement,
• "They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering."

are battling each other. If you can't clear 1.5-2k+ damage with Spiral Hell, Evisceration, Ground Strike, Full Swing, Black Halo, and more consistently on WAR right now, then I can understand these statements. Trust me, a VERY high percentage of WARs DO NOT even equip other weapons enough to know how to get the most out of them. Most only just recently skilled them up to be able to hit mobs in Abyssea to trigger effectively! Not knowing that most of these ws's can reach 5k+ dmg once buffed in Abyssea. Half of the folks that are spitting flame at my suggestion don't even know their potential, so it's easier to put something down that you don't understand/don't want to understand. They REALLY DON'T know how Arcon, because if they did they would see the validity in my suggestion which opens the door for more options.

This isn't about "needing" another WS to be more efficient either Arcon. A GA and Axe satisfies our "needs" just fine, since those are our main weapons. The suggestion is trying to make sense of the logic that WAR will continue to be on par combat skill wise as those that use these weapons as their Main job weapon choice. It just makes no sense to me that we have such high combat ratings with these weapons and not the WS's to match.

If Abyssea had never been released, I would still have suggested this to the Devs, so for the last time ABYSSEA TRIGGERING IS NOT WHY I'M PROPOSING THIS >< lol. Hell if you like I'll include that these WS's under Weapon Mastery WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TRIGGER monsters in Abyssea just to prove it for ya (I'll put this on OP shortly). Hopefully that'll kill this portion of the topic for good. ^^

This line and following statements,
• "To me that just sounded like this:
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"

Uhh... correct. Sounds a bit Mojo Jojo'ish when you put it like that (redundant), but yeah, that's pretty much the logic. The good thing about WAR is that I don't have to level another job to be efficient at another weapon since that's apart of our core job design. That's what we do, we're "Masters of all things Melee". Now, you and others are saying my suggestion of trying to bolster that job design is off base? Why? No other job can do what we can do with weapons is my point, so why not reward that? Again, it's just something I believe would make sense with all the high combat skills we have and will have in future updates.

Rather than envy a WAR, I say find ways to be the best at what it is your job is designed for. A lot of folks don't get that there's diversity even amongst job function classes. All melee oriented jobs can technically be called a DD since they cause damage, but that doesn't mean they were meant to do the most damage during battle. A THF is a DD, and pretty good one at that, but does that mean they should envy a WAR because of their design to hit hard? Nah. They have a great roll and they do it well. What about a SAM or a DRG or a DRK? Yes, they're DD's, but that doesn't mean they were designed to be the hardest hitting DD's in the game. By design, I'm talking about JA's, JT's, weapon/gear options and such. On my taru WHM, I have a TotMs Affinity staff with damn near the same amount of MAB gear as a BLM(mixed in with MND), yet I can't even get close to 3-5k nuke damage using Divine magic. It's frustrating, yeah, but that's the design of their job to do those numbers. Does it stop me from trying to bolster my Divine magic damage numbers? Hell no. I'm happy that I can clear 2K+ at times with Holy, and can't wait to see what new things are on the horizon for damage boosting options.

This really doesn't have to be an on going back and forth guys. I've already said my peace with this thread suggestion, in that I just hope that there will continue to be an outlet for having such high combat skill ratings on WAR as we approach lvl 99. If you disagree, that's fine, and I'm not bashing your opinion. It's just a wish from my WAR, that's all.

[kingfury]

**Edit to the OP**

**EDIT** Certain weapon skills, under certain conditions that are unlocked via this JA that are used for Red and Blue triggering on monsters inside Abyssea will cause them to not trigger for the WAR using this JA only.

Example:
A WAR/SAM uses Weapon Mastery to unlock the dagger weapon skill Cyclone in the attempt to try trigger Red on a NM, yet no Red trigger will be possible for the WAR since this JA is active. If another party member natively has Cyclone available based on their Main or Sub job, they will be able to trigger Red using Cyclone on the NM. The WAR will still be able to receive the hint message from using Cyclone however.

[Leonlionheart]

Simply put again: People will use whatever deals the most damage in the least amount of time.

This ability will either make that another weapon, or do absolutely nothing.

[kingfury]

Simply put again: People will use whatever deals the most damage in the least amount of time.

This ability will either make that another weapon, or do absolutely nothing.

------------
Correct. There's nothing to argue about that. /

[kingfury]

@ Arcon:

When I said your statements were "battling each other", I meant that If they in fact knew how to get the most out of the current weapon skills WAR has access to, they wouldn't say they were "not useful". The new ws's that would open up to WAR like Guillotine, Spinning Slash, Hexa Strike, and more are not "weak" WS's at all. If a WAR got their hands on them they would most definitely be beastly in terms of damage output.

>< I know you know that some weapon skills require more than just STR to push out the most damage. Some take piling on stats that are foreign to WAR like INT, MAB, and MND. Some you don't spam at 100 TP, others have their potential unlocked with a WARs 2hr. Your response to "everyone else" would have them frustrated real quick and tossing down weapons left and right if you're suggesting using the GA WS mentality only. I'm not bragging about the damage I've done on these weapons, I'm trying to prove a point about their potential. 1.5-2k+ is still pretty darn good damage outside Abyssea as far as I'm concerned, so it wouldn't be a waste if you're pulling in those kinds of numbers.

Yes, you're right about me playing with other weapons for my own enjoyment, but what happens when that enjoyment turns into expertise and I can suddenly hold my own with the other DD's in the party? What happens when I'm matching their numbers in most cases? And no, I'm not talking inside Abyssea, since no damage can out due Emp. wpns in there.

I'll never say that I'm not happy with all the great WS's WAR can use currently, because I am. It's the very reason I'm suggesting this JA in the 1st place. There are more powerful options just staring a WAR in the face that other jobs don't use anymore because they can't get the most out of them like a WAR could. All I'm asking for is as we continue to grow, so should our skills and expertise. That's the bottom line. The entire FF game mechanic is based on such a logic. You start off with few skills and spells, and as you grow in experience, you learn more skills and spells. It's sound logic and no different from what I'm suggesting. at lvl 75, a WAR has limited access to lots of WS's across multiple weapons. Level 95+ should allow access to more of those WS's is all I'm saying.

[Minsc]

Yes, you're right about me playing with other weapons for my own enjoyment, but what happens when that enjoyment turns into expertise and I can suddenly hold my own with the other DD's in the party? What happens when I'm matching their numbers in most cases? And no, I'm not talking inside Abyssea, since no damage can out due Emp. wpns in there.

I'll never say that I'm not happy with all the great WS's WAR can use currently, because I am. It's the very reason I'm suggesting this JA in the 1st place. There are more powerful options just staring a WAR in the face that other jobs don't use anymore because they can't get the most out of them like a WAR could. All I'm asking for is as we continue to grow, so should our skills and expertise. That's the bottom line. The entire FF game mechanic is based on such a logic. You start off with few skills and spells, and as you grow in experience, you learn more skills and spells. It's sound logic and no different from what I'm suggesting. at lvl 75, a WAR has limited access to lots of WS's across multiple weapons. Level 95+ should allow access to more of those WS's is all I'm saying.

And once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every DD job has a weapon their best at...

WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...

You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...

WAR = ALL

...and you don't care how it will affect other DD jobs.

Either you've done all you can on WAR with the weapons/skills/JAs it has available that you've become bored with it or you want WAR to be able to proc everything except yellow.

[kingfury]

And once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every DD job has a weapon their best at...

WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...

---------
Wait, wait, wait, don't stop there! What about PLD, RDM, and BLU? What happened there? I've posted this example already, but I'll give it to ya again if you missed it.

"plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's."

Again, for the umptenth time ^^ None of these jobs would be in anymore danger of losing what makes them unique than they already are based on what WS's WAR has already. The OP ask for all basic WS's, not ALL WS's. Check the OP again in regards to the crappy Abyssea trigger stuff as I've updated that part. Couldn't care less about Abyssea triggering, but more WS's Yes please.

Jobs distinguish themselves by their JA's. You level a job for what they can do and what their designed to do. SE designed most other Melee jobs to be dependent on 2-3 weapon choices to deal good damage on. WAR was designed outside of that mold. They are the most versatile Melees in the game by design. If you want to benefit from that design, level a WAR, if not level another job.

You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...

WAR = ALL

...and you don't care how it will affect other DD jobs.

Either you've done all you can on WAR with the weapons/skills/JAs it has available that you've become bored with it or you want WAR to be able to proc everything except yellow.

--------------
WAR brings a lot of happiness to lots of folks yes, but No, I've never said all.

[Atomic_Skull]

If they did this wouldn't they have to rename Warrior to "Munchkin" at the same time?

[kingfury]

If they did this wouldn't they have to rename Warrior to "Munchkin" at the same time?

---------
Qué? o.^

[Minsc]

---------

And once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every [SIZE="5"]DD job[/SIZE] has a weapon their best at...

WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...

You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...

WAR = ALL

...and you don't care how it will affect other [SIZE="5"]DD jobs[/SIZE].

Wait, wait, wait, don't stop there! What about PLD, RDM, and BLU? What happened there? I've posted this example already, but I'll give it to ya again if you missed it.

"plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's."

Again, for the umptenth time ^^ None of these jobs would be anymore in danger of losing what makes them unique than they already are based on what WS's WAR has already. The OP ask for all basic WS's, not ALL WS's. Check the OP again in regards to crappy Abyssea trigger stuff as I've updated that part. Couldn't care about Abyssea triggering, but WS's Yes please.

Jobs distinguish themselves by their JA's. You level a job for what they can do and what their designed to do. SE designed most other Melee jobs to be dependent on 2-3 weapon choices to deal good damage on. WAR was designed outside of that mold. They are the most versatile Melees in the game by design. If you want to benefit from that design, level a WAR, if not level another job.

Highlighted the point of my post above that you failed to understand (the part of DD jobs incase you missed it). I'm discussing how it will affect other DD jobs that already don't get a whole lot of action in Abyssea.

Jobs distinguish themselves by their JA's and their JOB SPECIFIC WEAPON SKILLS. You say, "None of these jobs would be anymore in danger of losing what makes them unique". Why bring a DRG to Abyssea for Blue procing if a WAR already has Skewer and Wheeling Thrust? Why bring a DRK if a WAR already has Cross Reaper and Spinning Slash? And so on and so forth...

What you fail to understand is those WSs are part of what makes those jobs unique. SE made it so you need those WSs/Jobs if you want full Blue proc. Give those same WSs to large WS arsenal WAR already has access to and you take away any reason to bring other DD jobs into Abyssea besides exp. If you want to benefit from the WSs designed for specific job, level a DRG, DRK, MNK, SAM, NIN, etc, if not level WAR.

Again, WAR was originally designed to tank. So by your logic, WAR should get more tanking abilities because that is what they were originally designed to do. Just admit you want this for triggering and be done with it. There is no other logical reason for a WAR to have any of those WS other than MAYBE your own personal enjoyment (as odd as that sounds)...