Creating "Job Abilities" for Throwing, Shield, Parrying, and Blocking

[Neisan_Quetz]

So much wrong, I don't even...

[kingfury]

^^ lol wrong for you perhaps lol. Which is fine since "different strokes for different folks" holds true in this game.

It helps GREATLY with damage control for me when duo'ing, so it's all kinds of "right" as far as I'm concerned. ^^

[Neisan_Quetz]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...he-misinformed.

This thread needs to be stickied. It's sad it's still worth posting in 2011.

[kingfury]

>< well I never said I full time this set lol. I understand haste just fine since I have a capped haste set as mentioned before. ^^ I don't "Full time" any set to be more specific, but that's another topic all together.

It's still a good link nevertheless for those that don't understand it though. /

[kingfury]

**Edit to OP** (For more detailed description of the suggestion)

(From Post #73)
My suggestion for "Enhancing Abilities" is just a spring board foundation for adding new life and usefulness to Shield, Parrying, Throwing and Blocking skills. Think of these abilities as starter points for creating new and unique ways to possibly enhance gameplay for numbers of Jobs in FFXI, not just a call for trying to change game code/mechanics. Similar to how Atmas from Abyssea function, try to imagine these abilities as though they were Atmas that enhance Throwing, Blocking, Parrying, and Shield skills/performance you could turn on at will for a time. Then try to imagine what kind of enhancements would make them worthwhile to use.

Damage is only one piece of the possible endless puzzle of enhancements that could be devised for bolstering these skills. "Usefulness" from weapons/abilities/gear/items in this game does not only find their definitive qualities in how much damage can be created from using them. Think outside of that logic for a second, and consider other types of usefulness for the skills in question.

And for those that have repeated the similarities of some of these enhancements, yes, I realize that the spell Reprisal has similar qualities, but the point from the OP is to make them available to other jobs via skill level. PLDs would simply benefit from from the two abilities I suggested in that they would have an added boost to what Reprisal can do. Again, it's no different than a PLD being able to cast Flash on a target as well as use Flash Nova with a club to do the same thing. Similarly, a WAR having Berserk to enhance attack as well as Warcry. Having multiple ways to accomplish a similar/same effect is nothing new to the mix of FFXI.

The biggest point here, again, is that other jobs with the appropriate skill levels would now have new life and functionality when using a shield vs the current mundane and vary unrewarding functionality present today. Equip, and hope it procs. This can be easily changed without recoding the current systems simply by adding enhancements that bring these skills to life. I've only suggested 3 for Throwing and Shield, that's not to say with more planning and creativity even more diverse and unique abilities can't be added to the list.

[kingfury]

The only jobs with Native Skill shield skill other than PLD is WAR, WHM, BST, THF, RDM. War has C+, WHM D, BST E, and RDM and THF are at F.They would need their base skill to be raised by a lot to even begin to make it useful. On top of that, WAR is always always going to use a Gaxe, if they really want to block damage or reduce the amount of damage taken, they simply would use a PDT or MDT set accordingly. THF will have a very hard time making use of ANY adjustments to shield because their Eva is A+ and their Parry is A-, so if you change Parry to proc better, thats going to be 2 checks before Shield even has a chance to proc.
Again, to make the changes you want, a revamp of the entire system will be needed to even make the changes you want some what useful.

--------------
You're correct that these jobs have varying combat skill levels natively, and that some planning from the player would be needed in certain cases to begin to see the full benefits from these types of enhancing abilities. Those jobs with lack luster combat skill ratings would have to work a bit harder than those jobs that have higher ratings natively, but that doesn't mean it can't be accomplished with some carefully devised gear sets, weapons, sub job choice, merits and through the possible Enhancing Abilities that could be added.

I've said in a recent post that the biggest reason that other jobs like WAR don't frequent using shields is due greatly to the fact the only job that has shield abilities and enhancements is PLD. If that fact is changed, the strategy around "effectively" shield tanking with other jobs could spring up all over the place. The number of creative Enhancing Abilities that could be added would hold the key to such new possibilities.

I've said recently that unlike Atmas, these Enhancing Abilities would see their full potential based on the combat skill level of the player, so I'm not suggesting enhancements that wouldn't take some strategy and effort from the player to see the full benefit. Atmas don't care if you have a combat skill level of 5 or 350, they just have set enhancement percentages once the player puts them on so very little strategy from the player is needed to see their benefits. I didn't want to change the "effort and strategy" part of things with these abilities since that would be a big part of the rewarding feeling you get from seeing all your planning and skillups come together to make something unique.

I don't know about others, but seeing shield proc on WHM is awesome to me ^^ lol. I've successfully put together a very effective DD'ing WHM over time, and would love to add some new combat diversity such as creative shield enhancements to that mix. The same way I've planned around the concept of turning my WHM into a DD, I could plan around seeing the most out of pushing the defensive shield qualities too.

In response to your THF example, so long as that shield is being equipped and careful attention is paid to increasing the skill level, whenever the shield does proc (since no one can evade 100% of the time) it would nice to see an enhanced effect out of it. The goal of such evasion masters is not to get hit, but in the event the monster succeeds in getting a hit in, something like "Shield Retaliation" reflecting back that damage could be very rewarding.

[Kuporeid]

kingfury, you've posted some fun and creative ideas, which remain fun and creative whether everyone would use them or not.

The title of the thread mentions parrying as something for which it might be interesting to create abilities. I have to admit I've always selfishly wanted a few fencing abilities for Red Mages (Fencers! Duelists! Estoqueurs [Swordsmen]!). One fencing ability I've had in mind seems in line with your ideas; it's a parrying maneuver called a "riposte."

A riposte is a parry that moves straight into an attack. In the game, this could be implemented similarly to Monks' counterattacks, except it would require a parry to activate. A Job Ability called Riposte that turned parries into ripostes for a limited time would be neat, especially for jobs like Corsair and Ninja, who have very high parrying skill.

Separately from the idea of Riposte as a Job Ability, I have a wish on my dream list of things that will almost certainly never happen: Riposte as a Job Trait for Red Mage. Since Red Mages have such lousy parrying skill, Riposte would not activate enough to be overpowering, but it would be a nice extra oomph! on those occasions we're even holding a sword, let alone being attacked while holding a sword.

It's fun to imagine things.

[Sarick]

[INDENT]-Shield retaliation: Allows you to reflect damage taken from a successful shield block. (Timed duration of effect) *Shield Retaliation Example*

I posted this as a suggestion a while back called counterbash. It's exactly the same thing with a different name. Unfortunately, SE added a spell (reprisal that does this to shield. Also if this isn't a trait but an ability its going to bee weak because i'll constantly get dispelled. What's the point if it's always dispelled or has a short duration.

[Kimble]

Shield has to go through 2 procs Eva and Parry, before it has a change to proc. I dont know the exact math, but for something that is post likely only going to proc 5% of the time, its really not worth it to make adjustments too, considering any Update in general shield has gotten, was tied to PLD.

[kingfury]

kingfury, you've posted some fun and creative ideas, which remain fun and creative whether everyone would use them or not.

---------------
Thanks ^^ /salute

The title of the thread mentions parrying as something for which it might be interesting to create abilities. I have to admit I've always selfishly wanted a few fencing abilities for Red Mages (Fencers! Duelists! Estoqueurs [Swordsmen]!). One fencing ability I've had in mind seems in line with your ideas; it's a parrying maneuver called a "riposte."

-------------
If it's "selfish" to want cool new abilities and such for your job, then fear not, because you are not alone! ^^

A riposte is a parry that moves straight into an attack. In the game, this could be implemented similarly to Monks' counterattacks, except it would require a parry to activate. A Job Ability called Riposte that turned parries into ripostes for a limited time would be neat, especially for jobs like Corsair and Ninja, who have very high parrying skill.

----------------
I love it! Devs, this for one of the possible Parrying Enhancing Abilities, ‹Yes please!› ^^

Separately from the idea of Riposte as a Job Ability, I have a wish on my dream list of things that will almost certainly never happen: Riposte as a Job Trait for Red Mage. Since Red Mages have such lousy parrying skill, Riposte would not activate enough to be overpowering, but it would be a nice extra oomph! on those occasions we're even holding a sword, let alone being attacked while holding a sword.

It's fun to imagine things.

------------
It sure is ^^, and I agree it would make perfect sense for RDMs to have a trait such as this. When it makes as much sense to couple a swordsmen-like ability with a job that lives, sleeps, and breaths with their sword, I say it's a no brainer.

Thanks for the feedback /salute