Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Neisan_Quetz]

Your steroids analogy is horrible, also you don't decide if leeching for exp is legitimate or not; it's already been decided that it is a legit method of gaining exp, just as astralburning is a legit method of gaining exp. Just drop it already.

[Starcade]

And I see the tag idiots are well in force again.

Look, the only reason an L30 would go in to Abyssea would be to be power-levelled. If you ever wanted a great idea for RMT, just watch what they've done with Abyssea in this game. Power-level 1-30, then Abyssea-PL the rest of the way, and you're probably 1-90 in a couple days, if not less.

I still remember that YouTube video of that cheating L75 BLM with ZERO magic skill.

[Starcade]

Your steroids analogy is horrible, also you don't decide if leeching for exp is legitimate or not; it's already been decided that it is a legit method of gaining exp, just as astralburning is a legit method of gaining exp. Just drop it already.

The steroids analogy is quite accurate, and not only describes what they've done with Abyssea 30-75, but also with allowing all sorts of other exploits not on topic in this thread.

It's become the backbone of many people's enjoyment of FFXI, just as steroids are the backbone of what was many people's enjoyment of baseball.

[Akujima]

SE has a key item that commemorates the 'achievement' of doing inane repetitive tasks for excessive amounts of time.

People complain about grinding EXP mobs over and over again to LvUp, but they don't complain about grinding Abyssea NM's over and over again for equipment???

Answer that question for me please.

[Panthera]

You're argument is stupid, and here's why. I have 2 alts. I burned them both to have several level 90 jobs using my main character's BLM. How am I cheating? How am I harming anybody? I am not leeching, I know just how hard it is to do quick pulls and check chests and open the right chests, all while spamming different macros for spells and gear sets so that I don't die.

No. This means you're earnestly gaining exp on one job while cheating on the other, that is, using the word "cheating" to mean to deprive, mislead, evade, or act dishonestly. It might take a great deal of effort to do what you're doing, but that doesn't mean you aren't cheating. As an analogy, just because you're juggling with one hand, which is fine, and stealing with the other doesn't mean you're not cheating. It might take effort, but that's not actually relevant.

By your definition, I am a cheater because 'leeching' inside Abyssea is inherently lazy, except I'm sure I'm working harder on all three of my accounts than you have ever worked for one minute inside Abyssea.

No. I said that "It misleads people that you've been playing your job for 90 levels, when all you've done at best is just open chests." I say it's cheating because it's misleading. you are defining being lazy as a form of cheating. Now, again, just because some people have stronger characters or play multiple characters doesn't mean that less powerful characters or those that only play one character at a time is not a parasitic relationship. It is an unequal symbiotic relationship, but rarely are characters equal, that's just a given. Suggesting that people are cheating because they aren't as strong is without grounds.

Also, your definition of cheating is stupid. If you go by it, you are cheating, since you obviously are not putting in as much effort leveling your jobs as I am. The least you could do is run two accounts at once. Then come talk about leeching being cheating.

No. I am not cheating because I am not depriving, misleading, evading, or acting dishonestly. And no, literally least I can do is run one character at a time. I am in no way obligated to dual box.

Kind of like your entire argument is an assertion based on thinking that the SE design team was completely unaware that people would bring low level characters into Abyssea to take advantage of a completely new experience points system? That's called an opinion, and yours is based on your misplaced morals, not the realm of fact.

No. I did not assume that SE didn't know players wouldn't bring low level characters into the areas. They allow it, but that doesn't mean they approve of it. Even if they do, my assertion is in no way based upon what SE thinks or does. Leeching is cheating by definition. That is not against the rules doesn't mean it isn't cheating. I've already explained this.

Once upon a time there were SMN burns. GMs got called so much that they apologized to alliance leaders for interrupting them again, and admitted that sometimes they were overwhelmed with reports of people "cheating" by mass pulling mobs in a starter zone. They said that as long as no griefing was being used, there was no break from the ToS by killing mobs in this way.

Fast forward a couple years, and we have new content. This content is filled to the brim with incredibly weak mobs, mobs with almost no defense, no attack, no dangerous AoEs that could potentially kill a character with little to no HPs. The experience system doesn't work like it did in the rest of the game, the way it still does now that content has been added outside of this new content. Instead of chaining exp based on a timer, you built your chain by gaining certain lights, and killing lots and lots of the same type of mob.

Want to know what a rational, thinking human being who is unaffected by a blinding moral rage would take from this?

They would think that SE saw all those people who SMN burned wanted a change. ...people were an indication that there just weren't enough camps that would fit this new, player discovered way of leveling en mass.

So SE specifically built a brand new mechanism into new content that would allow everybody to take advantage of faster leveling.

If you've been paying attention, you'd know that my contention with leeching is that it's cheating. I never said that leeching is wrong because it's faster experience points. I never said I was against fast, good exp. Every party I've ever designed as had exactly that in mind. Yes, Abyssea was designed to alleviate camp congestion (which it doesn't competely do), and was designed to make the larger experience points needed to level up not quite so intimidating. I'm all for honestly earning your levels quickly by playing your job. What I'm against is leeching.

The Abyssea experience points system seems tailor made for exactly what people are using it for, which is fast exp from 30-90(+). There is evidence everywhere in the design of Abyssea that this is how it was meant to be used.

Is it your contention that Abyssea was designed so that players could get from 30 to 90 by leeching? No. That's speculating, words into SE's mouth that they never said. Now, I myself speculate that SE allowed lower level players in it's so that they could do smaller fetch quests for small rewards. If they get random seals and what not, great, but that isn't depriving, misleading, evading, or act dishonestly.

Your 'argument' has one piece of 'evidence', and that is that SE is stupid. See the problem here?

No. Again, my arguement that leeching is cheating is no way based upon what SE thinks or does, or the quality, good or bad, of those that thinking and action. I do my own thinking. I don't borrow the weight of authority from others, that's your argument, not mine.

And finally, knowing the difference between right and wrong isn't blinding. It allows us to see. As far as being rational and logical goes, well...

[Starcade]

People complain about grinding EXP mobs over and over again to LvUp, but they don't complain about grinding Abyssea NM's over and over again for equipment???

Answer that question for me please.

He's using the fishing one as a good example of why -- doesn't that also get you the Lu Shang's?

EQ means a lot to many players.

[Chocobits]

Nobody ever answered why level 75+ players are entitled to more exp/hr than everyone else?

Why is it fair to set a minimum level for us to to start taking our steroids?

Also, please list a specific example of the low level content that is being bypassed by leeching?

Corner A says, "We like leeching, it allows us to try out new jobs and our LS's have benefitted from the increase in job variety."

Corner B says, "It's faster than it used to be, and involves nothing more than a chests mini-game, so it must be cheating."

Again, if you do not like leeching, you can opt to build your own Abyssea alliances that do not allow leeches. You can opt to exp the "old way" that you know and are comfortable with. But, and here's the thing:

Why should the rest of the playerbase be confined by YOUR personal views on how jobs NEED to be leveled? This proposal is entirely self serving and doesn't increase the enjoyment of the game for anyone but those that feel a need to place speed bumps on our road to 90. It's an OCD need to control how everyone levels and doesn't benefit the game or the playerbase in any conceivable way.

It's also entirely hypocritical because 75+, you ARE taking your exp steroids, the same as everyone else. Good exp shouldn't be limited to the 2nd half of the game, it should be available throughout the game, or else you create an unbalanced gameplay experience, which is what SE predicted and why they set the minimum level to 30 to begin with.

Mods please please lock this thread before this guy gets enough bandwagoners to reach his like quota.

[Panthera]

Your steroids analogy is horrible,

If I just said, "No yours is!" that doesn't mean it is. However yours is horrible though because you haven't said how and why.

also you don't decide if leeching for exp is legitimate or not; it's already been decided that it is a legit method of gaining exp, just as astralburning is a legit method of gaining exp. Just drop it already.

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're trying to say is that whether I think leeching is cheating or not, leeching is not against the rules, therefore it's legitimate. You're right by definition. Legitimate is that which isn't against the rules. But, one more time, just because something is legitimate doesn't mean it isn't cheating. See Warp Whistles. "Cheat mode," so aptly called, is technically allowed by the game, but it is still cheating. Leeching, again so aptly called, is still cheating.

[Akujima]

Your steroids analogy is horrible, also...

If I just said, "No yours is!" that doesn't mean it is. However yours is horrible though because you haven't said how and why.

Look. Panthera's point on Parasitic and Symbiotic relationships is the single most valid point that has been touched in this entire thread. If you don't know anything about those types of relationships, go LvUp and gain some experience to figure out how each of them is different.

Panthera... Thank you for having what counts most: Common Sense.

[Meyi]

You do know what Symbiotic means, right...?