Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Leonlionheart]

Just because you followed the cookie-cutter way of doing absolutely everything, doesn't mean that there weren't equally as good solutions for EXP camps out there. It's not my fault you can't think of any. And if people asked me in reply "What's your PT setup?". I immediately told them "Nvm, I'll get someone else". Because I can't stand the cookie-cutter attitude that's been growing and growing like wildfire since the games inception.

Actually there was never anything better than SAM SAM WAR BRD COR RDM. You just didn't know it yet.

[Pharaun]

Just because you followed the cookie-cutter way of doing absolutely everything, doesn't mean that there weren't equally as good solutions for EXP camps out there. It's not my fault you can't think of any. And if people asked me in reply "What's your PT setup?". I immediately told them "Nvm, I'll get someone else". Because I can't stand the cookie-cutter attitude that's been growing and growing like wildfire since the games inception.

Oh no, it's so terrible that people actually want to be efficient with their time. It's nice that you want to be a unique special butterfly, but you're trying to force that on everyone else. I have much more interesting things to do with ym time than sitting around grinding out exp, I want to be able to actually do the enjoyable content in this game and not have to spend weeks or months capping my level.

[RaenRyong]

Just because you followed the cookie-cutter way of doing absolutely everything, doesn't mean that there weren't equally as good solutions for EXP camps out there. It's not my fault you can't think of any. And if people asked me in reply "What's your PT setup?". I immediately told them "Nvm, I'll get someone else". Because I can't stand the cookie-cutter attitude that's been growing and growing like wildfire since the games inception.

So tell me just one single method which gained comparable exp and wasn't cookie cutter or SMN burn?

[Pharaun]

You obviously can't understand his genius Raen, it's not about getting comparable exp it's about the suffering and self-flagellation that it should take to reach max level.

[Kindra]

I know BC was 70cap, I played alot of PvP during Season 2~4 Arena. I quit just as WotLK came out.

Using the argument of "well it's your opinion, so opinions don't really matter to everyone" is hypocritical to say the very least... Because THAT's your opinion! Forums are about hearing peoples opinions about how the game is developing and how it should be developed.

And... Ugh, I'm done posting on these forums for awhile. These little nit-picking arguments are just getting ridiculous.

But now you see the point. No one can make you feel any different then you do. Because that is your opinion and no matter what its how you feel and to you it's right.

But you can not make anyone else agree with you because they have a different opinion and feel that they are right.

So in the end its a never ending debate. Its a "Too each their own" situation.

[rog]

Speed relative to the top end experience gaining speed at the time~

Exp, speed and pld/pld mobs do not go togeher.

[RaenRyong]

I agree, but that's how people used to do it

[Panthera]

Because any chimpanzee with a keyboard could always get level 75...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from this, I gather from this rather hypobolic statement that it is your position that getting a 75 was not an accomplishment because it required little effort, wasn't challenging enough to do, and required little intelligence to get done.

...but really, getting level 75 just means you have enough time on your hands and you're competent or persistent enough to hit the same 2 macros repeatedly for hours upon hours on end.

Italics are a lot of exactly why it was an accomplishment. Walking across the front yard is a small accomplishment. Walking across the United States is quite an accomplishment because of the persistance required. Getting exp before they were doubled and before Abyssea was an accomplishment; standing around AFK is not an accomplishment because accomplishment is defined by successful, praise-worthy action, not fruitfulinaction. And while chest leeching might be a small accomplishment in the sense that you performed an action successfully to reach a goal, it isn't an accomplishment in the sense it's anything to brag about for its sheer lack of any difficulty at all; no one will be impressed because chests just don't fight back. In other words, leeching is not an accomplishment because it requires little effort, is too easy to do, and requires little intelligence to get done.

Therefore, by your own definition of why something it not an accomplishment, we can conclude that old experience points were an accomplishment because they 1) required effort 2) had some difficulty, and 3) required some intelligence. Bear in mind, none of these are required for something to be accomplishments by actual definition, but I'll play along. Old parties required effort because good parties, and by extention the levels gained thereby, were praise-worthy because people engaged immediately, lowered the mobs defence with acid bolts and Dia II, payed enough attention to use TP as soon as it was ready, etc. None of this happens automatically; you have to do it to make it happen, hence effort. Bad parties were not accomplishments and blame-worthy because of laziness and a lack of attention paid. Old experience points parties were challenging because successful parties could get higher chains than bad ones, and bad parties and bad players did exist. If there were no challenges, all parties would be equal, and difference between 12k per hour parties and 25k per hours parties would not exist. The challenge existed because a good party met the challenge better than the bad one. Finally, old parties required intelligence. Did you pull with Requiem or Elegy? Did you voke first and engage second? or allow the mob to run amock all over camp while you draw your weapon. Did you pull the mobs in the correct order to ensure the highest chain? Cast Dia II? Old experience points did require intelligence, because there were players out there that could not grasp such nuances that might seem easy to some and take for granted, but inexplicably impossible to others.

...Until/Unless it is adjusted by them, or they comment on it, one can only assume that it does not break any rules....

Finally, you and Akujima tend to use a particular backwards argument when dealing with this sort of thing that just drives me crazy. "FFXI is an RPG and thus X, Y, and Z need to be in it". That's not how it works. You are trying to define the game based on its genre when it is the games themselves which define their genre. You do not look at FFXI and say "Well this needs to be an RPG, so the game needs to be this". You look at FFXI and say "Well, in this game you control a single avatar who explores the game world and gains experience points and skills, gaining new abilities over time, so you could call this game an RPG."

FFXI is FFXI. If it changes enough that it "does not deserve the title of RPG any more", they can simply change the genre. Not that your video game purism isn't wholly unappreciated nonetheless."

You've misrepresented my arguement. I did not say, FFXI is an RPG, therefore everyone has to level, because if they don't, FFXI won't be an RPG anymore. " What I said was that an inherent part of the game is being side-stepped such that "cheaters" and those who play earnestly both arrive at the goal. Just pretend that steroids were legal. Just because they aren't breaking rules doesn't mean that the guy that worked out to get a good physique doesn't think that the guy who took steroids deserves the attention that having a good physique entails; one cheated, the other did not, despite whether it was actually against the rules or not. Why is that so hard to understand? Even if fish-botting were legal, which it's not, doesn't mean that fish-botting doesn't take away from the praise-worthiness of the accomplishment of having level 100 Fishing. If rules don't prohibit cheating, that doesn't mean there's something right with the action, it means there's something wrong with the rules. If stealing were legal, does that make it right? No, that means the laws are wrong.

The fact that leeching side-steps the leveling proccess does not mean that FFXI is no longer an RPG, if I'm getting your contention right. You still have to do a lotskilling up, which cannot be side-stepped. Levels are in some ways, not exclusively now, nothing more than increments of skill levels, measurements of getting stronger as time goes on at a particular task or stat.

I never said leeching broke rules. I said that leeching was cheating. Paradoxically, just because something isn't breaking the rules, doesn't mean it's not "cheating." I've already explained how leeching is cheating and why.

[rog]

I agree, but that's how people used to do it

Ya, and it was slower than it could have been.

[Khiinroye]

SE has a key item that commemorates the 'achievement' of doing inane repetitive tasks for excessive amounts of time.

"This certifies that you have gathered no less than ten thousand carp. Please spend your time in a manner more beneficial to society. Your achievement is noteworthy for its utter lack of meaning. With heartfelt disapproval, Gallijaux & Joulet"