Let us trigger yellow or blue weakness in abyssea

Give us the ability to trigger !! or!! with our 75 merit pacts and possibly Carbunlce's and Fenrir's 75+ rage pacts or blue with our 70 Physical pacts and Fenrir's Eclipse Bite. I've been turned down on 5 NM runs so far because my SMN cannot trigger any weakness

I thought about that, But honestly it just means 1 more body to add to the list of things you need to drag to an event to get triggers.

SMN is an amazing DD, Both Predator Claws and Heavenly Strike have amazingly shocking potential, and are quite Steady Damage.

If you're being declined for being a SMN, I feel your pain, As I too am a SMN (amongst other things), but i think this would hurt more than help for everyone but SMN.

Same could be said for BLU or NIN and even BRD as far as far as yellow is concerned, Chances are if its an event there'll be a SMN in the alliance anyway it will only really effect seal farming PUGs who usuallly don't have a full set of yellow procs anyway

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Originally Posted by Razushu

Same could be said for BLU or NIN and even BRD as far as far as yellow is concerned, Chances are if its an event there'll be a SMN in the alliance anyway it will only really effect seal farming PUGs who usuallly don't have a full set of yellow procs anyway

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You kinda just proved my point. Theres already way too many jobs you 'need' to include in PUG's if you wanna get everything. Why add more?

I understand wanting to feel useful, but SMN in itself is a useful job. Its amazing in abyssea and Merited Bloodpacts rip stuff apart. its just adding this would do more harm than good for everyone in the community.

BLU/NIN, and BLM/BRD + WHM can handle all Yellow procs, throwing a SMN into the mix is just an inconvenience. You're just having bad luck with Ignorant players not knowing the potential SMN can possess in Abyssea.

Edit: Maybe the Tier IV Bloodpacts should trigger Weakness, But adding NEW weaknesses for SMN to trigger is a bad idea.

I think SE did well in skipping SMN, since we have terrible timing potential, and failing means waiting for so long. If you have all day it is fine, but if others want to fight the NM it is not fun when a SMN is going to spend half an hour trying to trigger grellows.

I'm not talking about our battle usefulness I'm quite happy with that but when it comes to lowman things that require procs it seems SMNs get left outta the loop simply because we cannot proc, it seems that NIN doesn't really need procs because someone has to tank the mob anyway so they'd always be welcome and I've never been NM farming with a BRD so obviously people are ok with not having the full range of procs at all times so I can't really see our big pacts triggering changes too much if anything. As to your edit I can't see why we can't proc with our tier IVs but i couldnt see this helping as a blm would still have all of the elemental magic procs for each case

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think SE did well in skipping SMN, since we have terrible timing potential, and failing means waiting for so long. If you have all day it is fine, but if others want to fight the NM it is not fun when a SMN is going to spend half an hour trying to trigger grellows.

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If thats the case I hope they realise they REALLY need to evalute the way Blood Pacts are timed 1 attack every minute doesnt quite cut it imo

One attack every 45 seconds. Remember your BP delay- gear, caps at -15 seconds.

35 seconds with that Atma. (which was confirmed -10 seconds that ignore cap)

i Know about bp delay- from gear and atma i'm talking about natively a minute is a bit much to wait to do anything hell 45 sec is too much when you consider that once you've BP'ed thats it for the next ~60 secs I can't think of any other job that can only act once a minute

Summoner is imba anyway you look at it honestly. the answer is pretty much time productiveness, people are indeed fools to pass summoner up as a job its very underrated...however other jobs can just preform it better and more effectively. The thing that summoner gives us that other jobs don't is "hate free"

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think SE did well in skipping SMN, since we have terrible timing potential, and failing means waiting for so long. If you have all day it is fine, but if others want to fight the NM it is not fun when a SMN is going to spend half an hour trying to trigger grellows.

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actually just realised something how would we have to wait so long to see if we have proc it can only be one of 3 elements that means it'd take us a max of 2 minutes to find out if we have proc a 90 secs for most SMNs at this stage never seen a group get all the procs they want and kill an NM in 2 minutes esp. not a low man NM group

Really.

I'm a SMN, and I'm going to say it. Stop being Selfish. You want Summoner Bloodpacts to be able to proc just so you can feel useful to those Idiots who deny you a spot. in reality all its going to do is bone the Rest of the playerbase into dragging 1 more body to every seal farm if they want to get Yellow "!!".

I understand wanting to feel useful, but maybe finish leveling your WHM. When people say "no SMN" you can call them Morons in RL and punch a wall, but then offer to come WHM.

I hate, Hate, Stupid ignorant players as much as the next person when it comes to their view on "Useless" jobs, But adding another set of Triggers isn't the solution. it will hinder every player in the game except SMNs, and even some SMNs who have other jobs it will hinder, Like me.

I understand your frustration 10 fold, This is just not the solution.

If anything, Just allow Teir IV Bloodpacts to act as weakness triggers like the BLM Teir IV nukes, so they can at least do something.

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The thing that summoner gives us that other jobs don't is "hate free"

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Hate free is trivial. Who cares if you get 0 hate when you do 500 damage and other jobs do 1000 damage and get hate for that? Even if you, as the Summoner, got all 500 damage worth of hate, the 1000 damage melee would still be tanking. The only moment hate free matters, is when you are the job dealing the highest damage. This will never happen unless you pet burn.

So many people don't understand that and think Summoners somehow are strong with their hate freeness. Of course you can't fool the masses that play other jobs, which is why you won't see them inviting Summoners saying "Hot, hate free damage at bird camp!".

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Really.

I'm a SMN, and I'm going to say it. Stop being Selfish. You want Summoner Bloodpacts to be able to proc just so you can feel useful to those Idiots who deny you a spot. in reality all its going to do is bone the Rest of the playerbase into dragging 1 more body to every seal farm if they want to get Yellow "!!".

I understand wanting to feel useful, but maybe finish leveling your WHM. When people say "no SMN" you can call them Morons in RL and punch a wall, but then offer to come WHM.

I hate, Hate, Stupid ignorant players as much as the next person when it comes to their view on "Useless" jobs, But adding another set of Triggers isn't the solution. it will hinder every player in the game except SMNs, and even some SMNs who have other jobs it will hinder, Like me.

I understand your frustration 10 fold, This is just not the solution.

If anything, Just allow Teir IV Bloodpacts to act as weakness triggers like the BLM Teir IV nukes, so they can at least do something.

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your point of having to bring an extra person is moot as if ur in an alliance theres 18 people running around doing things chances are theres a smn in there anyway and as for low man i've yet to be in a 3~4 group that has WHM BRD NIN BLM and BLU anyway so they'll be missing some proc anyway which says to me people dont mind not rolling a full set of procs to begin with. Giving us tier iv procs would change absolutely nothing because BLM has them AND the rest of the BLM procs, leaving us where we are now.

Well the solution could be simple....

Get rid of war by example as proc and put smn instead.... and then war will cry

So yes i am 100% for smn proc as pup as any pet job who as been forgotten.


more is better simple, and by the way SE why BP come as physical attack ( iam talking magic BP ),

smn not aloud to farm ligh also ????

So far we are doomed on perle, so much things we got for nothing to do....

So please SE reconsider your smn fellows and give them some fun in abyssea as the other job have too.

I think smn BP should be able to proc the existing triggers. I have 12 Lieje Lanterns from soloing that NM and still don't have a sash. Every time I join a goup they refuse to proc blue because of his spikes (true story). It would be great to have BP abilities to proc existing triggers.

1) Form pet squads. (I use 2-3)
2) Invite BLM and WAR to die for you.
3) Kill everything.

You weren't designed to play well with the popular kids, you were designed to thrive with the other unpopular kids. RDM, for example, is perfect at staying under avatar hate but above SMN hate. No one said the BLM or WAR have to do anything useful but proc.

in case you all forgot, our spirits do have all the proc spells of a blm.

Depending on what your gear is and sub job, most of the higher level black magic spells have a similar recast, around 40ish seconds.

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Originally Posted by Frodnon

in case you all forgot, our spirits do have all the proc spells of a blm.

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except the -aga IIIs... and the ability to cast them on demand lol

Spirits have Water V, Blizzard V etc?

No, but those are not triggers. (We have banish IV ruining our banish III trigger though)

Just to happily let u all know... Spirits... while not being the most useful things in the world.. have the ability to hit yellow if you get lucky... they can also get Azure kills if they kill with a cast.

Maybe you're all not exploring your capabilities enough..

By the way, Myrkr is amazingly hack in abyssea :P

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Originally Posted by Cett

Just to happily let u all know... Spirits... while not being the most useful things in the world.. have the ability to hit yellow if you get lucky... they can also get Azure kills if they kill with a cast.

Maybe you're all not exploring your capabilities enough..

By the way, Myrkr is amazingly hack in abyssea :P

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Thats one helluva big if though, still the whole point of my posting this topic was to give us something more to offer hunting NMs as I've been (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here) passed over on several low man NM runs because I can't proc yellow.

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Originally Posted by Cett

By the way, Myrkr is amazingly hack in abyssea :P

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Now imagine if you actually used it or your avatar to melee, to be three times what you call "hack."

Ever consider the fact that there are those who enjoy smn? That there are many who aren't into mana type jobs but love pets? Or SE is once a-fking-gain pigeon holing invite positions? smn/whm is ok on healing just fine but the company really needs to stop encouraging people to shun certain jobs as do players here. If i have to go heal AGAIN as i did from 1-65 (i soloed to 75) then this game has become a chore.

The smart option would be to start your own group people.

*edit* after landing 7 holys on kharon our whm came back from afk and launched the !! so from experience and this company's history with smn related actions i will call shenanigans on that.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

smn/whm is ok on healing

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No, we never have been. SMN has always been 2 levels of healing away from bottom notch AH WHM. If RDM and SCH aren't OK on healing, SMN sure isn't either.

Guess which job is guaranteed to NEVER get Cure 5, even with a subjob?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

No, we never have been. SMN has always been 2 levels of healing away from bottom notch AH WHM. If RDM and SCH aren't OK on healing, SMN sure isn't either.

Guess which job is guaranteed to NEVER get Cure 5, even with a subjob?

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Summoner has Cure 5, and has always had it since level 70 :P . It was the second job to ever get it, and it also has curaga 4. :)

Oh wow, how do you fit a random Light Spirit casting into your "hack" Sea Daughter/BP/retreat strategy? Of course, you already know to use Cure 5 on the tank, you have to stand with the player between you and the spirit, close enough to hit something with a stick that you won't lift.

Have you managed to duo anything with a MNK with these cures?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Oh wow, how do you fit a random Light Spirit casting into your "hack" Sea Daughter/BP/retreat strategy? Of course, you already know to use Cure 5 on the tank, you have to stand with the player between you and the spirit, close enough to hit something with a stick that you won't lift.

Have you managed to duo anything with a MNK with these cures?

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Simply stating a fact sir. :)

SMN healing does work well if you can afford the right gear. There is a big difference between cure 4 for 350 and for 620+ hp with enmity-50. We can now cap at 50% cure potency with a Facio Bliaut and have our avatar to speed up fights. Still, there is many things in Abyssea I wouldn't try without cure 5/6.

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Originally Posted by Cett

Simply stating a fact sir. :)

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Now try stating a truth, has Cure 5 on Light Spirit made you more competent at healing than Sea Daughter made you competent at DD?

Why did this get derailed with talk of spirits? lol

There's no real argument against SMN triggering !! or !! other than "What do you mean if I want a full set of weakness triggers I'll need to consider bringing SMN as well as BLU BRD WHM NIN and BLM for yellow?".

What SMN needs is a way to control what spell the elemental spirit casts next or lets the Summoner "siphon" the spell and cast it themselves. This would make us more reliable for triggering and would solve the issue of Light Spirit casting Banish IV instead of Banish III. Too many times have I summoned a retarded Ice Spirit that would attempt to cast Bind, Paralyze and Frost on mobs, often multiple times in a row, before I ever saw that Freeze or Blizzard IV that was needed.