Fixes to Current Ninja Job

Heya all. I haven't seen a serious post on fixes to the Ninja job, so decided to post on up on what I feel should be changed to make Ninja better as a whole. Funny thing, fixing old oversights in NIN might possibly be the huge update people are looking for, instead of adding "new" spells or Job Abilities. I'll split them up into 5 sections and go from there:

1) Hidden (unused) spells: This is possibly the biggest change that could be made to NIN that would also have the greatest effect. It's no surprise to anyone that NIN is missing a vast number of spells between lvl 48 and lvl 75.

Jubaku: Ni/San - Theres no reason why these shouldn't be used currently. They were likely not added along with other spells, due the the game balance in 2004 before merit points were added, and seen as an oversight there after. Jubaku: Ni's paralyze effect should be just under Paralyze II at max potency and just above Mind Blast. San's Effect would be over a max potency Paralyze II by a good margin, but RDM now has the JA Saboteur that makes up for lack of potency.

Kurayami: San - Would be ninja's most important spell to cast. Kurayami: Ni is matched with Blind II at max potency (both -30 Accuracy), but the fairly recently added spell Auroral Drape completely floors the spell in potency (-60~70 Accuracy). Adding this spell would greatly enhance a NIN's tanking role in conjunction with Evasion gear. Say... at -50~60 Accuracy Down?

Hojo: San - Similar reason to Jubaku. Hojo: Ni's Slow effect (18%~) is far lower than a max merited Slow II effect (39%~), and even lower than Slow's max effect (29.3%~). Even so, RDM has Saboteur In that, theres no reason why this shouldn't be added added as well as a level 70~75 spell.

Dokumori: Ni/Dokumori: San - Plenty of Poison spells that trump Dokumori: Ichi in either potency or duration. BLU get the upperhand just by using Disseverment. Then again, with the addition of Saboteur, NIN falls further behind in this regard. While not seen as a bread and butter spell for a NIN to use, an update to match other jobs would still be nice.

Utsusemi: San - Ahh yes, the spell that all NINs across the world are openly or secretly hoping for. Obviously if it was added, the spell usage would probably be at 2-3 seconds to cast, and a 1 min recast. It would also likely give 5 shadows. Considering that (and Iga Kyahan +2!), it would be a wonderful spell to finally add that would vastly aide with NIN tanking, or just evading hits while in a damage dealing stance. Enmity decay could be tied to this spell as well, in lieu of the previous Utsusemi spells.


2) NIN Merits: There are many problems with NIN merits... most of them are nigh useless, or out of place.

Sange - Would have been useful, but we have the entire Throwing/Shuriken problem. That alone renders the ability outdated and now useless. see #3!

Subtle Blow Effect - Have been rendered outdated and archaic due to the addition of both Yurin: Ichi & Myoshu: Ichi, as well as various pieces of NIN gear that boost larger amounts of Subtle Blow + (example, simply wearing a Heed Ring gives you more Subtle Blow + than meriting the effect 5 times to cap). Perhaps this merit can instead give a much more generous boost to Subtle Blow (+10~20), or can be extended (or changed) even give an extra bonus as well. Two extra bonuses I can see working would be either Critical hit rate %+ or Critical damage rate %+.

San Elemental Spells - Totally out of date and should be revised. Theres no reason why NIN should have to choose between San spells to merit for damage, especially after the magic attack increase (and the addition of Futae) update to all spells. So why not remove all of these as merits, re-add them into the game as usable scrolls (allowing everyone access to San elemental ninjutsu), and then instead remake these merits give an additional effect to the corresponding elemental spell casted? The effect could be a sharp increase to Enmity gained, or a more potent elemental resistance debuff (all spells currently have a -30 to resist, that lasts only a meager 15 seconds). It could also remain as a sharp magic attack increase to the specific line of elemental spells (but this would overlap the tier 1 merits) In re-adding San elemental scrolls, they could be sold at NPCs for a super low price of 5,000 to 10,000 gil, so as to not anger NINs that have already maxed merits into one or two spells prior.


3) Throwing: Throwing for NIN is out-of-date and should be fixed.

Shrikens - The cost for these to be made are simply too high to make, and even then the only "useful" (and now out of date) Shurikens to be made are Fuma-- the craft to make Fuma gives a pathetic yield of throwing stars (3~12) to justify ANYONE making them at all, unless for novelty purposes. To add insult to injury, one craft consists of using both a Gold Ingot, Tama-Hagane, and a Mythril Sheet to perform the synthesis. Not only that, they stack to 12 instead of 99. Futhermore the synthesis to create these is level 85 Smithing, 45~50 Goldsmithing. This simply means that constant High Quality synthesis simply will not happen. Assuming this is my server of Carbuncle and I made a stack of Fuma Shuriken with no High Quality (4 synths) with the current prices of materials, that's approximately 120,000 gil for 12 shuriken (1,100,000~1,300,000 gil for around 99). The alternative is buying the shuriken from the NPC for 57,960 gil per star. Instead, we can look to a more powerful Koga Shuriken instead-- however, Koga Shuriken are so rare to aquire (can only be obtained by doing ISNMs) rendering this also as a novelty. The most forward fix to change this would be to add a Syngergy synthesis to all of these weapons so that the quantity will be increased (like Bullets), allowing NIN to make use of them (Koga should be added as well). From there, newer shurikens should also be added, since the level cap has been increased.

Ninja Tool Expertise - This trait should be extended to shurikens and other consumable throwing items, ala Recycle. This trait could be set at a much lower expension rate under Yonin as well (-10% instead of -33% for Ninja Tools).

Sange - Would no longer need a fix if the first two problems were addressed, but a neat corresponding change to Sange would be to add the Job Ability itself to NIN without merits, and instead change the merit system so that with each increasing merit, one less shadow would be consumed per shuriken thrown.


4) Parrying: Parrying (and by extension Guard for MNKs) has the potential to be a wonderful asset to any fledgling ninja that decides to go the tanking route. However, as it is currently, it does next to nothing on higher level monsters that matter. Once monster levels con "Even Match" and above, the activation rate on Parrying is reduced to 5~8%. Raising this rate of activation across all levels of opponents above "Even Match" would make this trait more than a novelty. I have seen many ideas on how to raise it as well (via Job Traits, as a percentage increase under the effect of Yonin, as a Job Ability). Raising the skill up rate just a smidgen more will also be beneficial.


5) Mijin Gakure: Shouldn't be a two-hour ability, plain and simple. Personally, I haven't met many ninja that have used this 2 hour in any strategic way, other than to death warp home. It's original intent was probably for it to be a huge instantaneous damaging final attack to save the user's experience points as party members flee to safety, or saved due to the ability killing the target. Unfortunately, the damage for the 2 Hour is often extremely low to be effective in defeating the target at all. This ability was later converted as a nod towards the accepted tanking role that the players gave to NIN-- but remaining on a 2 hour timer makes the ability vastly useless. Placing it on a 10 minute timer with something else added and replacing it as the 2-hour, seems more reasonable (this also in turn brings more value to the mythic weapon, Nagi).


If anything, these would be my ideas for fixing up NIN, rather than some off-the-wall additions that aren't really needed at the moment. Any serious discussion is much appreciated!

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Funny thing, fixing old oversights in NIN might possibly be the huge update people are looking for, instead of adding "new" spells or Job Abilities.

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I'm sure that goes for almost all jobs sadly. Most annoying are oversights that have been fixed in other ways. Let's take Summoner for example. While Wards should have had a static 5 min duration, SE decided to make you get summoning skill to reach it instead. It solved the problem, but by making you wear 10 sets extra of armor.

I won't go that deeply into your post, but I think most 2 hours could as well be 20 min JAs. Astral flow? Well, the only difference is that COR's won't get 20k gil for resetting the ability. Not sure if it would be overpowered to stop giving a job gil, but I'm sure some would say so. But yes, NIN 2 hour could be a 20 min JA without people complaining. But many others really should too.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I'm sure that goes for almost all jobs sadly. Most annoying are oversights that have been fixed in other ways. Let's take Summoner for example. While Wards should have had a static 5 min duration, SE decided to make you get summoning skill to reach it instead. It solved the problem, but by making you wear 10 sets extra of armor.

I won't go that deeply into your post, but I think most 2 hours could as well be 20 min JAs. Astral flow? Well, the only difference is that COR's won't get 20k gil for resetting the ability. Not sure if it would be overpowered to stop giving a job gil, but I'm sure some would say so. But yes, NIN 2 hour could be a 20 min JA without people complaining. But many others really should too.

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Soul Voice , wild card, Meikyo Shisui, blood weapon( with Specific weapons like KC), chainspell, and Tabula Rasa are the only ones I really see being OP on a 20 min timer

bad 2hr jas ( 2 hours to use the following effects is a poor idea ) are the following:
PLD ( too short/ can still get killed by magic)
THF ( see PLD)
BLU ( plain useless even if it was 5 min cooldown)
NIN ( and the mythic weapon that makes ti better is just as useless)
RNG ( rare but IT CAN MISS!)

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Originally Posted by Shoko

Ninja Tool Expertise - This trait should be extended to shurikens and other consumable throwing items, ala Recycle. This trait could be set at a much lower expension rate under Yonin as well (-10% instead of -33% for Ninja Tools).

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Sooooo you want to nerf it......?

Ninja is one of the last jobs that should be looked at for a potential overhaul.

I'm sorry but I have trouble feeling sorry for ninjas when I'm always seeing them spam Blade: Hi for 4-6k damage.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I'm sorry but I have trouble feeling sorry for ninjas when I'm always seeing them spam Blade: Hi for 4-6k damage.

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^^^agreed. I have a hard time feeling sorry for nins when abyssea has clearly allowed them to usurp the tanking role almost entirely, relegating paladins to "no thanks" jobs for most situations.

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Originally Posted by Kyte

Sooooo you want to nerf it......?

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No not nerf it at all, it would retain the same conservation qualities for Ninja Tools, but act like a Recycle trait for throwing shuriken. Guess I could have worded that better, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anethia

^^^agreed. I have a hard time feeling sorry for nins when abyssea has clearly allowed them to usurp the tanking role almost entirely, relegating paladins to "no thanks" jobs for most situations.

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Have you even tried tanking on a low level ninja these days? For those unlucky enough to not get a keyspot/leech have to suffer pretending to be PLDs for quite a while before they even become even worth using. Every DD and their cousin can rip aggression from them, the only fact theyre still used as low level tanks is because it's hard to break a trend. NIN is not meant to, and never was meant to be a 'tank' pre Abyssea, and whoever in the community thought it'd be cool to waste consumables on doing so made a really awful trend.

YOU try dealing with trying to pretend to be a tank, because quite frankly, I hate it. Your damage dealing potential until 60+ is awful, spamming consumables doesn't really help if a DD can cap his hate before you can, and most people want to sync to IT on mobs rather than VT for comfortable tanking; so you are basically eating shadows and wasting gil. If anything, low level nin needs some rounding off. Blade: Hi doesn't account for EVERY nin out there, and frankly is a bad example for saying it's hard to feel sorry for them.

You don't need Blade: Hi to be a good ninja

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

Have you even tried tanking on a low level ninja these days? For those unlucky enough to not get a keyspot/leech have to suffer pretending to be PLDs for quite a while before they even become even worth using. Every DD and their cousin can rip aggression from them, the only fact theyre still used as low level tanks is because it's hard to break a trend. NIN is not meant to, and never was meant to be a 'tank' pre Abyssea, and whoever in the community thought it'd be cool to waste consumables on doing so made a really awful trend.

YOU try dealing with trying to pretend to be a tank, because quite frankly, I hate it. Your damage dealing potential until 60+ is awful, spamming consumables doesn't really help if a DD can cap his hate before you can, and most people want to sync to IT on mobs rather than VT for comfortable tanking; so you are basically eating shadows and wasting gil. If anything, low level nin needs some rounding off. Blade: Hi doesn't account for EVERY nin out there, and frankly is a bad example for saying it's hard to feel sorry for them.

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I think you need to consider that we are mostly referring to nins already at the current lvl cap.

I'm not disagreeing on the low end of things, having lvl'd nin as a support job for dnc and blu I understand the difficulty pre lvl 60, I chose to solo my nin for 37 of my 45 lvl's on the job simply because I didn't wanna bother with hate control. I was simply stating that with higher lvl nins having some of the best evasion and now getting 9 shadows with +1/2 af3 and migawari, face tanks like paladin don't get the shine they deserve against the harder hitting NM's.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

Have you even tried tanking on a low level ninja these days? For those unlucky enough to not get a keyspot/leech have to suffer pretending to be PLDs for quite a while before they even become even worth using. Every DD and their cousin can rip aggression from them, the only fact theyre still used as low level tanks is because it's hard to break a trend. NIN is not meant to, and never was meant to be a 'tank' pre Abyssea, and whoever in the community thought it'd be cool to waste consumables on doing so made a really awful trend.

YOU try dealing with trying to pretend to be a tank, because quite frankly, I hate it. Your damage dealing potential until 60+ is awful, spamming consumables doesn't really help if a DD can cap his hate before you can, and most people want to sync to IT on mobs rather than VT for comfortable tanking; so you are basically eating shadows and wasting gil. If anything, low level nin needs some rounding off. Blade: Hi doesn't account for EVERY nin out there, and frankly is a bad example for saying it's hard to feel sorry for them.

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If this is the case, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm currently leveling Ninja. I just hit level 65 yesterday. I've never had a problem holding hate against DD's in the party. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

As far as "Q.Q it wastes too much gil to level Ninja Q.Q" - then don't level it.

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Originally Posted by Shoko

5) Mijin Gakure: Shouldn't be a two-hour ability, plain and simple. Personally, I haven't met many ninja that have used this 2 hour in any strategic way, other than to death warp home. It's original intent was probably for it to be a huge instantaneous damaging final attack to save the user's experience points as party members flee to safety, or saved due to the ability killing the target. Unfortunately, the damage for the 2 Hour is often extremely low to be effective in defeating the target at all. This ability was later converted as a nod towards the accepted tanking role that the players gave to NIN-- but remaining on a 2 hour timer makes the ability vastly useless. Placing it on a 10 minute timer with something else added and replacing it as the 2-hour, seems more reasonable (this also in turn brings more value to the mythic weapon, Nagi).

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Since they adjusted mijin gakure it's a remarkably useful 2-hour. It allows NIN to quickly remove their weakened status and resume tanking. If SE made mijin gakure into a 10 minute ability I imagine they would remove the ability to recover from mijin with half hp and no weakened status and then mijin gakure would be completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Lynchilles

If this is the case, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm currently leveling Ninja. I just hit level 65 yesterday. I've never had a problem holding hate against DD's in the party. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

As far as "Q.Q it wastes too much gil to level Ninja Q.Q" - then don't level it.

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Has nothing to do with 'doing it wrong,' you see that's the lovely part about anecdotes, you leave out those wonderful things called variables. You know, as if in you have a PL, where you sync, your squadmates, etc. Saying 'I can do this' without anything other than 'because I said I can' is evidence of nothing. Without a good thf I don't believe you would have any chance in Hades keeping aggro against a well armed SAM, WAR, or DRG using Penta Thrust out in Wajaom or Bhaflau.

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Originally Posted by Anethia

^^^agreed. I have a hard time feeling sorry for nins when abyssea has clearly allowed them to usurp the tanking role almost entirely, relegating paladins to "no thanks" jobs for most situations.

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To be fair, Paladin was already sorta-kinda heading that way to begin with.



Also, gil is hard to get? Wat?

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

Since they adjusted mijin gakure it's a remarkably useful 2-hour. It allows NIN to quickly remove their weakened status and resume tanking. If SE made mijin gakure into a 10 minute ability I imagine they would remove the ability to recover from mijin with half hp and no weakened status and then mijin gakure would be completely useless.

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Why would they do this if it was a 10 minute ability? It's not as if you can abuse it-- if you die again with in 5 minutes after Mijin on a 10 minute timer, you would be out of luck for 5 minutes. This why I said 10 minutes in the first place instead of 5 (or something lower). Even a 15 or 20 minute timer is reasonable over 2 hours.

If I recall this was a thread about "how to fix" a job that some of us don't think needs fixing. The ideas presented were good although unnecessary in some opinions. This thread has now degraded into nothing more than pointless insults. Try to get back on track please.

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It would also likely give 5 shadows.

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It gave 7 shadows when it was in the game breifly (used by monsters).

Utsusemi:San is completely unnecessary, especially with the NIN empyrean +2 gear, which adds a shadow to both ni and ichi.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I'm sorry but I have trouble feeling sorry for ninjas when I'm always seeing them spam Blade: Hi for 4-6k damage.

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Ninja does a lot less damage then warrior, it honestly needs a damage output increase. So do a lot of other jobs though~

Throwing sucks, move past it, it doesn't need to be better.
Subtle Blow is an amazing thing.
I agree that our 2 hour and merits are mostly garbage, but I would be pretty angry if half this stuff got implemented the way you want it to.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

Has nothing to do with 'doing it wrong,' you see that's the lovely part about anecdotes, you leave out those wonderful things called variables. You know, as if in you have a PL, where you sync, your squadmates, etc. Saying 'I can do this' without anything other than 'because I said I can' is evidence of nothing. Without a good thf I don't believe you would have any chance in Hades keeping aggro against a well armed SAM, WAR, or DRG using Penta Thrust out in Wajaom or Bhaflau.

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We also went over how low level ninja outparses every other job, and is an amazing tank in the thread you made complaining about it:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...s-badly./page6
start from there, you can't miss it.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

Quote removed by Moderator.

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Just because new people don't understand how to tank on ninja doesn't mean it's a bad tank. It means those people should learn how to tank on it, or go play something else. I hear monk is pretty popular right now, maybe you could play it and beg people to help you get verthrangna (or however you spell it) and black belt. OR! better yet, just make a new sock puppet account and pretend to have them and tell people how awesome you are.

Move to ifrit right now and I will buy low lvl ninja gears and you can play whatever you want and I'll show you how to tank, k?

Unless SE adds throwing WS, shuriken and other throwables like grenades will always be inferior to auto-attack.

I guess I just think giving any job the ability to shake weakness every 10 minutes is a bit overpowered. When you look at other job's two hours they're about on par with losing weakness. I do not think mijin pre-adjustment was worthy of being a two hour but the new form of it is. On the other hand if you made the argument that two hours should be revamped and put on a 30 minute timer I would agree.

How many sock puppets do you have Andylynn?

ANDYLYNN I MISS YOU! I have been so busy lately, how you been!?

To my bestest friend TearV/Andy/CumD.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Ninja does a lot less damage then warrior, it honestly needs a damage output increase. So do a lot of other jobs though~

Throwing sucks, move past it, it doesn't need to be better.
Subtle Blow is an amazing thing.
I agree that our 2 hour and merits are mostly garbage, but I would be pretty angry if half this stuff got implemented the way you want it to.

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Kinda have this feeling you mis-read my OP somehow. Didn't mention anything wrong about Subtle Blow, only that the merits are now overshadowed by gear and spells. Throwing actually had very high damage output a few years ago (higher than katana DoT), only that you had to main this via Fumas, which was both cost and inventory intensive-- didn't ask for it to be better, only changed so it's useful at all.

And honestly, I feel NINs damage output is fine, people are just afraid to ride Innin out to maximize on it.

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Originally Posted by Shoko

Kinda have this feeling you mis-read my OP somehow. Didn't mention anything wrong about Subtle Blow, only that the merits are now overshadowed by gear and spells. Throwing actually had very high damage output a few years ago (higher than katana DoT), only that you had to main this via Fumas, which was both cost and inventory intensive-- didn't ask for it to be better, only changed so it's useful at all.

And honestly, I feel NINs damage output is fine, people are just afraid to ride Innin out to maximize on it.

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Throwing only did more damage then meleeing with katanas if you were under 75 or just badly geared, especially a few years ago before tp gain was nerfed and you could not go below 5tp/hit minimum. Throwing is useful as a low lvl DDing hate keeping tool, its fine as it is, I would rather not have to carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up. They should revamp 1 handed damage so its effective for harder mobs like 2 handed damage if anything.

Also: you cant ride innin out, It is just not feasible to do if you're at all good at ninja. If you're a bad ninja you can do it because you're doing terrible damage and not pulling hate, if you're a good ninja, you swing faster then most others and do a lot of damage so you're basically tanking most of the time, if not all of the time. Since this is the case it's probably better to go with yonin for the evasion so you cast shadows less compared to ininn, or nothing at all if you have acc issues, since you're tanking anyway.

I did a t2 einherjar the other day, the warrior did 122k, I did 90k, both have empyreans and are very very very well geared, and had the same buffs the whole time, and we're both good at winning parses. Ninja needs to do more melee damage threw meleeing, not throwing, thanks SE! (other funny info: the gandiva did like 50k, cause rng is effing terrible, and our last dd was another ukon war who was pulling and also did 50k~ we won the t2 in like 15 min if youre all wondering)



EDIT: pretty sure both ninja spells let you break the subtle blow cap too, thats the rumor thats going around, never tested myself.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Throwing only did more damage then meleeing with katanas if you were under 75 or just badly geared, especially a few years ago before tp gain was nerfed and you could not go below 5tp/hit minimum. Throwing is useful as a low lvl DDing hate keeping tool, its fine as it is, I would rather not have to carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up. They should revamp 1 handed damage so its effective for harder mobs like 2 handed damage if anything.

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From where you're coming from, you sound like you're doing OK with katana DDing, so saying "..carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up." is a silly statement, lol. I'm very sure of katana DoT myself, but I'd love to see light return to flinging shuriken... you know, like a ninja should. Bringing it back as a hate keeping tool is all the more reason.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Also: you cant ride innin out, It is just not feasible to do if you're at all good at ninja. If you're a bad ninja you can do it because you're doing terrible damage and not pulling hate, if you're a good ninja, you swing faster then most others and do a lot of damage so you're basically tanking most of the time, if not all of the time. Since this is the case it's probably better to go with yonin for the evasion so you cast shadows less compared to ininn, or nothing at all if you have acc issues, since you're tanking anyway.

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As I was coming home, I was almost certain you'd make that argument on Innin, to which I have no real refute other than to place Innin and Yonin on separate timers (something I didn't want to include in OP for the very reason). I have no problem DD/tanking with Innin on, I usually ride it to the ends of the earth on most everything outside of Abyssea NMing, as people I do events with are usually WARs, SAMs, etc and they hold hate often (if it matters I'm well geared outside of missing AF3+2 feet and Kannagi due to lazy). Also of the fact that Lv. 90 Evasion Skill and Gear places you so high in rank vs outside-of-abyssea mob levels, not using Yonin is a minimal loss.

Not a fan of deliberately trying to win parses in any situation, but it's pretty cool that Kannagi isn't terrible outside of Abyssea, lol.

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Originally Posted by Shoko

From where you're coming from, you sound like you're doing OK with katana DDing, so saying "..carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up." is a silly statement, lol. I'm very sure of katana DoT myself, but I'd love to see light return to flinging shuriken... you know, like a ninja should. Bringing it back as a hate keeping tool is all the more reason.

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It's a good hate keeping tool at low levels because it out damages everything else, once you get lots of haste, it loses. Winning the parse is the easy way to hold hate and tank. My thought process is that if they buff it at higher levels, they would have to buff it to the point its equal/better then katanas, or its still useless, and at that point I would have to carry the stuff around, cause I don't like gimping it up.

When I first saw af3+2 head, I was praying the augement let you use innin from anywhere..... but saddly its some stupid junk like 5% DA? or 5% crit rate? I dont even remember, I was just really upset we still have such a useless JA that could be amazing and fix all the DD problems NIN has.

Innin in itself is just weird. They could have gave it a minor boost to DD at any direction, then an enhanced boost to it's maximum potential as you attack from behind.

I agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Afrohatch

You don't need Blade: Hi to be a good ninja

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^This, this, a thousand times this.

Its funny how the Kannagi NINs on my server think they're the shit AFTER they get their Empy. I can think of one in particular that is always harassing me for advice. I've been playing NIN since 06 and let me tell you, across all the low-mid levels I was still able to hold hate. Pre-abyssea, there were very few PLDs that could take hate from me solidly, even doing NIN/DRK for things like Kirin and Omega. The only level range I can honestly say I had a hard time holding hate was before I had Utsu: Ni and the elemental wheel. I don't, by any means think I'm an exceptional NIN but I know how to play my job. I could still do the same thing I do now effectively even without Blade: Hi. My favorite thing about having the real Empy is having the aftermath.

NIN doesn't need any real adjustments, the problems with PLD existed before abyssea came around. They are really the ones who need an overhaul. That being said, Utsu: San, Jubaku: Ni {Yes, please}.

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Originally Posted by ThaiChi

^This, this, a thousand times this.

Its funny how the Kannagi NINs on my server think they're the shit AFTER they get their Empy. I can think of one in particular that is always harassing me for advice. I've been playing NIN since 06 and let me tell you, across all the low-mid levels I was still able to hold hate. Pre-abyssea, there were very few PLDs that could take hate from me solidly, even doing NIN/DRK for things like Kirin and Omega. The only level range I can honestly say I had a hard time holding hate was before I had Utsu: Ni and the elemental wheel. I don't, by any means think I'm an exceptional NIN but I know how to play my job. I could still do the same thing I do now effectively even without Blade: Hi. My favorite thing about having the real Empy is having the aftermath.

NIN doesn't need any real adjustments, the problems with PLD existed before abyssea came around. They are really the ones who need an overhaul. That being said, Utsu: San, Jubaku: Ni {Yes, please}.

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Was this before or after 2h update :P?

Actually it was after the 2hander update, during the 40s I had the slight advantage of being able to continually deal damage faster than 2handers due to the rapid succession of casting the Ni wheel, coupled that with a high breath mantle, dorado sushi, debuffs to make sure they only land hits on shadows kinda ensured that I had solid hate on me. But to be honest I began starting to struggle through 49-60 when DDs would get things like Penta, Guillotine, etc, but was generally within 2-3 job abilities of getting the mob's attention back on me and when spamming the Ni wheel was no longer viable. When people would do things like Souleater guillotine during the 60s is generally the only time where I'd kinda just give up trying lol.

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Originally Posted by Shoko

I'd love to see light return to flinging shuriken... you know, like a ninja should. Bringing it back as a hate keeping tool is all the more reason.

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Me too

Just a silly lil idea off top of my head. Make a meritible job trait that will imbue our throwing ranged attacks with a job ability "provoke". Or a new affordable synth recipe for shurikens that have the added effect "provoke" on it like the Egg does. Or something....

Spue math, flame on, whatever. I play for fun.