Leaving low-level content surrounded by L90+ mobs.

So I end up going into a dungeon zone like Dangruf Wadi.

I find a treasure chest key. Woot!

Then I find out the spawn point for those chests is now surrounded by mobs so IT++ vs. the mobs the keys drop from...they can sneeze on the people who'd normally find those keys and obliterate them. Ditto with some of the NM's- why on earth weren't the chest/NM spawns moved to level-reasonable areas when half of those zones were populated with hostile, extremely high level mobs? It'd be nice not to see some random Geyser Lizard NOT popping in the middle of enough powerful goblins to give an L99 party a run for their money.

Sure, it's lower-level content. But it's silly as heck to see that the dangerous part of fighting the NM isn't the NM, but the "ordinary" monsters surrounding it that are 50-60 levels higher or even more!

It's all about balance, bro. Stick high level mobs into low level zones, effectively scaring newbies into Abby leeching instead of solo adventuring. Everybody wins! Kind of.

They stuck high level monsters in those areas because they needed to put some somewhere, otherwise abyssea would be the only option. Since areas like dangruf wadi are only minimally visited for a couple things you only have to do once, they were ideal candidates. Still, they could have moved the chest spawns...

This is something I discovered recently as well. For missions and quests and such, this is why the Grounds Tomes sell Circumspection for next-to-nothing. But of course popping a chest will automatically drop sneak, and...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They stuck high level monsters in those areas because they needed to put some somewhere, otherwise abyssea would be the only option. Since areas like dangruf wadi are only minimally visited for a couple things you only have to do once, they were ideal candidates. Still, they could have moved the chest spawns...

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Which was my point. Ditto with low level NM's. Sure, they're relatively less visited...but surrounding those NMs/chest spawns with mobs in the 90's rendered them suicide missions for players in the levels to engage them.

"Hey! I just got this fresh blood off a L6 sheep in Gustaberg, what's it for?"

"It spawns a NM leech in a L90 area."

"Does it drop L90 loot?"

"Nah, it's meant for L30 players"

*chucks spawn item*

This is a fundamental error in zone construction that needs fixing. Move the NM and chest spawns to locations where appropriate level players can access them in dungeons that have had their big neighbors move in for high-level GoV play, or up the power and drops on those NM's to match the area they're in and at least move the chests to saner locations.

Hey guys I had the most insane idea ever. What if lv80+ mobs in mid-level areas didn't aggro?

Nah, I'm just talking crazy now. Nevermind me.

Many don't. It's the exceptions that are the the real pain.

My point was that they all should.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

My point was that they all should.

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Boy, that'd make that inital newbie quest in Zerhun Mines REALLY fun.

Huh. I'm saying that they all should not aggro.

I knew how you meant it, however I also know how he read it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They stuck high level monsters in those areas because they needed to put some somewhere, otherwise abyssea would be the only option. Since areas like dangruf wadi are only minimally visited for a couple things you only have to do once, they were ideal candidates. Still, they could have moved the chest spawns...

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Yea, fine and dandy excuse/reason for adding high level mobs but what logic was there for making them aggressive? They didn't need them to be aggressive to accomplish the same goals. Goblins are naturally aggressive they could've made them high level lizards, rabbits or leeches. The worms where left aggressive as well after upping their levels.

The higher level mobs didn't need to be aggressive. It would've done the job 100% effectively while maintaining BALANCE for lowbies if they wasn't aggressive mobs. In fact they could've placed low level and high level mobs side by side. We could've had level 20 players and level 90 players fighting beside each other with no negative effects.

Truth is if they would've kept the gobs the same aggressive level an added passive level 90 mobs in there beside them it would've maintained the BALANCE in the zone without screwing things up for newbies/lowbies. Instead they just upped everything without logical consideration. It made the zones less compatible with lower players when they added their (NEW) aggressive high level mobs. :mad:

It's a fundamental flaw that should've been designed around. If they needed more zones with high level mobs they shouldn't have broken them by making those new mobs aggressive in areas created for newbies.

adding high lvl mobs to low lvl areas was one update i never liked. I hate running threw a low lvl area then suddenly get agro and die. Its also more of a pain when your excorting a new player around.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...erground-Chest

Just another example of the problem outlined by the OP.

I never viewed this as a problem. Most of the chests/coffers in the game have been routinely obtained by sneak/invising around the map due to high level monsters or simply not wanting to fight everything. For the most part it just spread to the lower zones.

It'd be nice if they changed it, but I find that highly unlikely. I'd just be glad there is an easy solution to not aggroing them.

Chests and coffers were typically surrounded by monsters of the right level to drop the key for it, which was also about the right level to use the rewards in them. Yes, most players did just use sneak/invisible (which drops when you open the chest regardless), but there was always the option to use the hack-and-slash option with 2-3 friends at your level.

Now some chests and coffers are surrounded by monsters that will one-shot an entire alliance at the proper level, and don't even think they drop keys.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Chests and coffers were typically surrounded by monsters of the right level to drop the key for it, which was also about the right level to use the rewards in them. Yes, most players did just use sneak/invisible (which drops when you open the chest regardless), but there was always the option to use the hack-and-slash option with 2-3 friends at your level.

Now some chests and coffers are surrounded by monsters that will one-shot an entire alliance at the proper level, and don't even think they drop keys.

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Tell that to the beastmen fort coffer key mobs. You weren't getting a Beadeaux coffer key for your AF1 with "2 or 3 friends your level at the appropriate level" (would've been under level 60) when the mobs that dropped said keys were for lvl 75's. Sorry but killing high level mobs that were generally too strong for you at your level was always a part of the game. Just like sneaking around them to find your chest was.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

Tell that to the beastmen fort coffer key mobs. You weren't getting a Beadeaux coffer key for your AF1 with "2 or 3 friends your level at the appropriate level" (would've been under level 60) when the mobs that dropped said keys were for lvl 75's. Sorry but killing high level mobs that were generally too strong for you at your level was always a part of the game. Just like sneaking around them to find your chest was.

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Actually no, the 3 primary beastmen strongholds only go upto level 70 for mobs. The ones around coffers are often level 60~70, where as the ones around chests are level 40~50. At 75 cap, you could probably go in with a party of people at level 54~56 and fight a level 60 mob and win, with enough time, you could clear a room with a coffer in it so that people could obtain their gear. The mobs in the upper 60s to 70 would be a bit harder, but elemental seal sleepga worked to get them out of the way I'm sure.

The difference now is that you have no chance at all around the proper level, and his box is surrounded by mobs that have no relation to the box anyways. Before the mobs could drop keys for it, so they had some relevance, however now they don't, they are just high level fodder mobs for your level 99 community.

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Originally Posted by Aeonk

Tell that to the beastmen fort coffer key mobs. You weren't getting a Beadeaux coffer key for your AF1 with "2 or 3 friends your level at the appropriate level" (would've been under level 60) when the mobs that dropped said keys were for lvl 75's.

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Did you ever try? Mad links notwithstanding, 3-4 60's can do fine farming for keys in Beadeaux/Davoi/Oztroja, where the key-droppers cap out at around 68 or so. We're talking about stuff my lolpld soloed at 75. Keys/coffers built for 70+ are in Ve'Lugannon and the like.

Beastman strongholds specifically didn't get any new monsters, so nothing has changed for them.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Hey guys I had the most insane idea ever. What if lv80+ mobs in mid-level areas didn't aggro?

Nah, I'm just talking crazy now. Nevermind me.

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Then, the guy who thinks up funny jobs and positions for Beastmen would have had to be let go during the Abyssea development cycle.

He has a wife and two kids, and they all depend on FFXI having a place for a Goblin Onanist or Yagudo Pentecostalist. Have a heart!

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Goblin Onanist

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Seedspray

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Yagudo Pentecostalist

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Isn't that a little redundant?

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They stuck high level monsters in those areas because they needed to put some somewhere, otherwise abyssea would be the only option.

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That's crap and I'm sure you know it. There's far more appropriate locations to stick high level mobs than in a traditional "newbie" area, and there are plenty of such higher level zones that also barely receive any traffic nowadays.

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I never viewed this as a problem. Most of the chests/coffers in the game have been routinely obtained by sneak/invising around the map due to high level monsters or simply not wanting to fight everything. For the most part it just spread to the lower zones.

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The difference here is that when you're looking around for AF coffers at level 60ish, you're "supposed" to be at the level where you could usually deal with the nearby mobs around comfortably, maybe with a small degree of similar-level help, and you're just using sneak/invis instead for convenience.

This is not the case with level 80-90 aggro mobs standing in the way of level 10-20 content.

The way things were done with new mob placement was just sloppy and haphazard, and reeks of a certain trope.

Yay! People definitely get it.

Swapping mobs in the general area of said lower-level NM's/chests to all non-aggro types would help matters greatly. It's not that even dungeons today are all RAWR KILL SNARL high-level mobs, but they seem to be placed in all the right places to massacre the guy who just picked up a treasure chest key and would like to go snag his Moth Axe without a random L80+ goblin getting revenge for people who stopped respecting Goblin Smithy in Yuhtunga.

Getting to a low-level treasure chest with an item meant for characters who can't even CAST Sneak/Invis (and I don't mean "go get oils/powders) yet shouldn't be an epic adventure trying to bypass mobs that will casually one-shot the adventurer with a random Stonega III. Fudge, I was even able to solo my -coffer- keys for AF back in the day at reasonable levels and with care, and we're not even talking treasure coffers here. I get more valuable items out of friggin' brown Treasure Coffers with infinitely less risk.

Picking up a loltropicalshield shouldn't be like Frodo and Sam dumping the One Ring into Mount Doom, y'know?

Well now... you can't really say "my big brother around the corner is gonna get you," if he's not really there can you?

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

Well now... you can't really say "my big brother around the corner is gonna get you," if he's not really there can you?

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Of course, "big brother" ISN'T supposed to be around the corner with the way content was originally designed.

It'd be like taking down Shinryuu so you could pick up 2 Gil and a lizard tail. Risk is nowhere near reward.

And of course, there's always stuff like dungeon chests becoming "illusions" if you happen to be lucky enough to pick up a second key at any reasonable amount of time after popping the first one. But that's another story entirely.

try and old school and do your AF, it's a near constant spam of "WTF WAS THAT?!" coupled with a linkshell shout for a raise, since you were killed getting up after burning your FoV tabs raise... then you get to beg for a lvl 99 escort(s).

yeah, just move the damn chests, AND THE KEY DROPPERS!

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

try and old school and do your AF, it's a near constant spam of "WTF WAS THAT?!" coupled with a linkshell shout for a raise, since you were killed getting up after burning your FoV tabs raise... then you get to beg for a lvl 99 escort(s).

yeah, just move the damn chests, AND THE KEY DROPPERS!

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Heh, yeah that's another one- and only slightly less heinous.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

It'd be like taking down Shinryuu so you could pick up 2 Gil and a lizard tail. Risk is nowhere near reward.

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Actually sometimes I wish Shinryu would give me even that much.

But back to the point... this has been an issue since wings of the goddess premiered with a lv 75 gob right next to a level 5 rabbit. WTF SE. Whatever crack they were smoking then they kept on smoking when they were like.. hey you know what? We should put really high leveled mobs really super close to the zones. I bet they put GMs right there too so they can laugh when we die.

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Originally Posted by Bureikun

this has been an issue since wings of the goddess premiered with a lv 75 gob right next to a level 5 rabbit.

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That would have been a perfect opportunity to have an area's beastman levels tied to the state of campaign in the area.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

So I end up going into a dungeon zone like Dangruf Wadi.

I find a treasure chest key. Woot!

Then I find out the spawn point for those chests is now surrounded by mobs so IT++ vs. the mobs the keys drop from...they can sneeze on the people who'd normally find those keys and obliterate them. Ditto with some of the NM's- why on earth weren't the chest/NM spawns moved to level-reasonable areas when half of those zones were populated with hostile, extremely high level mobs? It'd be nice not to see some random Geyser Lizard NOT popping in the middle of enough powerful goblins to give an L99 party a run for their money.

Sure, it's lower-level content. But it's silly as heck to see that the dangerous part of fighting the NM isn't the NM, but the "ordinary" monsters surrounding it that are 50-60 levels higher or even more!

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I've lodged several complaints myself about this and the way it was poorlyvdone, very very sloppy and no testing/forsight. I noticed myself that dozens of mobs were put in a tiny area on map three in Kuftal Tunnel, when they added new mobs. Dyna, when it was revamped, just has it's mobs popped and no thought of pulling or xp camps were considered, see jueno for /facepalm.

When you run with very little staff and try to meet many deadlines/goals, you get shitty results. Unfortunitly, at this point...

THE DEV ARE NEVER, EVER GOING TO ADDRESS THIS. IN THERE MIND, IT'S ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED AND THEY COULD CARE LESS BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T PLAY THIS GAME, PERIOD. SO WHY WOULD THEY CARE LIKE YOU OR I?