Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

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Originally Posted by Olor

And yeah I guess empys are faster if you play all day and have slaves that are willing to repeatedly farm bosses for you, but I work and I am in a casual shell and I don't dual box, so yeah - love making progress towards weapons without inconveniencing my friends or having to shout in PJ (and take advantage of people).

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You have "slaves" of random people working to help you clear WoE zones because you aren't doing it solo... Well you have those "slaves" until WoE's popularity drops.

Seriously people need to stop kidding themselves you aren't truly soloing WoE for coins.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

You have "slaves" of random people working to help you clear WoE zones because you aren't doing it solo... Well you have those "slaves" until WoE's popularity drops.

Seriously people need to stop kidding themselves you aren't truly soloing WoE for coins.

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No, I am not soloing, but I am also not putting 5 hours into shouting for people stupid enough to do all the work for crap arse seals while I get an empy. Not only that but no one is a slave because EVERYONE in the event gets AN EQUAL CHANCE at THE BEST rewards.

Maybe if I was standing around leeching the event it would be one thing, but as a bst I'm putting gil into making runs a success.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

2. How is giving people drops they want taking advantage of them...?

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Just because some people are dumb enough (for example) to go on dynamis runs with coins {R} or to heal someone for 5 hours while the leader gets all empy item drops (in return for WHM feet paper or some other crap) doesn't make it less "taking advantage of them."

Seriously, getting 10% done over two evenings is not fast enough? What the heck? So you guys think it makes sense for SE to make an event that people will abandon after a week when they have all their coins? That's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Olor

No, I am not soloing, but I am also not putting 5 hours into shouting for people stupid enough to do all the work for crap arse seals while I get an empy. Not only that but no one is a slave because EVERYONE in the event gets AN EQUAL CHANCE at THE BEST rewards.

Maybe if I was standing around leeching the event it would be one thing, but as a bst I'm putting gil into making runs a success.

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I used slaves in quotes because the term isn't accurate by definition in either situation. When shouting for help with Emps those people are going for a chance at +2s thus they are getting what they want just like people helping you clear a WoE zone. When getting help from your friends either they are going for the same chance at +2s or because they are fulfilling their desire to help you. in either case no one is being enslaved now if you asked for help and kept all the drops that would be a different story.

Best rewards is also relative, for example to me helping a friend with Briareus Jewel of Voyage or Stone of Voyage are the best rewards. While my friend sees the helms as the best reward.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Just because some people are dumb enough (for example) to go on dynamis runs with coins {R} or to heal someone for 5 hours while the leader gets all empy item drops (in return for WHM feet paper or some other crap) doesn't make it less "taking advantage of them."

Seriously, getting 10% done over two evenings is not fast enough? What the heck? So you guys think it makes sense for SE to make an event that people will abandon after a week when they have all their coins? That's ridiculous.

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They want these pieces and are willing to do runs/pay for them and don't want emp items, you are supplying them with these pieces and want the emp items, sounds like a fair deal if you ask me.

For an inferior weapon, yes, 10% in two evenings is slow.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Making it like assult with points like that seems like a better idea. I agree



that is nice, people that know what to do can farm most real emp weapons faster though.

2 days for 10% just shows how bad it is, lol

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We'll an empyrian isn't a true empyrian till 95, and most people are saying atleast 6 months to finish one of those buying everything they can at 400k+ a piece for 1500 pieces, so I'd say 10% complete on a 95 woe version in two evenings is pretty fast to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

We'll an empyrian isn't a true empyrian till 95, and most people are saying atleast 6 months to finish one of those buying everything they can at 400k+ a piece for 1500 pieces, so I'd say 10% complete on a 95 woe version in two evenings is pretty fast to be honest.

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Flawed logic is flawed.

Assuming you have the seals that's 10% to a level 90 weapon. Still need to get 100 of X items for the 95 upgrade. And if you're doing new zones to get the 95 upgrades you're reducing your coin attainment rate as well. Meaning the level 90 version will now take you more time.

Also you are making a level 95 WoE weapon that is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

The people already completed a empyreal weapon in hardcore farm sessions, always generalice and think everyone have the same resources they haved.

They think all the people can dual box, they think everyone have a good group of friends.

Here is the example why they say 3 weeks is a lot of time.

Using Carabosse as example.

If you Duo Carabosse with Thf/Nin Whm/Sch. Assuming you can farm 4 pop sets per hour, because this Empyreal is easy.

Assuming you will get 2 Gems per Nm because your thief have TH6.

8 Gems per hour = in 6 hours you get "48" Gems.

Now the Fatty Fish NM Ciren Coin. Same this NM only need 2 key items. So we can pop 4 per hour. This NM Can be soloed of a good blm in 6 - 7 mins.

8 Cirein-croin's Lantern per hour = 6 hours "48" Latern.

In like 12 hours having a WHM for Dual box is posible get a empyreal lv 85.

This is the reason, why this guys say 1 - 2 weeks is a lot of time.

This is the perfect scenario without competition. Lets say in a real scenario with competition 12 hours farming cara and 12 hours for ciren coin. So in 24 hours is posible finish a empyreal lv 85.

The people dont have acess dual box, dont have a group of friends for farm hardcore, in 3 weeks doing WoE at least 6 runs per day. Will have enough coins for complete 4 - 5 WoE weapons. (It takeme have enough coins for complete 5 weapons)

Now for the people will work in WoE Weapon that worth 3 weeks of play WoE?. If you know how play the job, you look information and you know your shit. Yes it worth you will be parsing awesome numbers. If you are lazy player and dont look for info never parsed your events, even with a real empyreal you will still a bad player and even players without a Empyreal will beat you in parses.

If you think "How this shit is posible nuuuuuu". In crour farm parties, i was outparsing Ukkos wars, Kannagi ninjas and others, With thief just playing thief in the right way. So the empyreal not is enough, you need know how play the job, and have your tp gear and ws gear. This Uko war dont even swap gear for ws he had around of 18% haste on gear, the ninja was meleing in full evasion gear with like 8% haste gear ^^, even we say We want cap ruby kill fast -_-

In conclusion a informed and smart player with a empyreal or WoE weapon = God mode
A lazy player with empyreal = A fail "Another empyreal weapon wasted"

All I read was foreveralone.jpeg

Seriously why are you playing if you can't make friends that idk, help you get stuff and you help them get stuff?

4 pop sets per hour? on Carabosse? You're joking, right? Maybe if you're constantly afking in between fights...

You can get both of CC's KI in box, same with Carabosse, and all 3 are easy kills. Heqet isn't heavily camped on my server and that's with Midgard's population added in.

takes a thief and a white mage like 15 minutes just to kill carbosse some times. You are pulling numbers out of your ass.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

All I read was foreveralone.jpeg

Seriously why are you playing if you can't make friends that idk, help you get stuff and you help them get stuff?

4 pop sets per hour? on Carabosse? You're joking, right? Maybe if you're constantly afking in between fights...

You can get both of CC's KI in box, same with Carabosse, and all 3 are easy kills. Heqet isn't heavily camped on my server and that's with Midgard's population added in.

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The example is for Everyone see how easy is make a Empyreal in 12 hours can be completed this one, with only 2 people. Not with a group. But again the people always assume, everyone can dual box and everyone will have the perfect scenario always. Not everyone will have acess this kind of luxury things, this is the reason for me and lot of people is farming the coins for get WoE.

And carabosse with a Decent thief not a full evasion thief. Can destroy Carabosse with this. Buying this items by bastion prefect

Fool's Drink
Monarch's Drink
Berserker's Tonic

Using atmas RR/SS/Apoc. With 2 trial magians evasion daggers.

Just mele it until 50% after benediction. Use stawart tonic and Monarch's Drink
Berserker's Tonic. In about 8 - 10 mins "I can kill cara on thief doing this" But sadly my friend WHM, Can only help me the weekends with this, so maybe in 12 - 18 weeks i will be finishing my Empyreal weapon. And sadly i dont have access dual box.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Flawed logic is flawed.

Assuming you have the seals that's 10% to a level 90 weapon. Still need to get 100 of X items for the 95 upgrade. And if you're doing new zones to get the 95 upgrades you're reducing your coin attainment rate as well. Meaning the level 90 version will now take you more time.

Also you are making a level 95 WoE weapon that is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

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My point was compared to the empyrian path the WoE's path is a joke 1500 vs 100 how is it so slow for everyone I don't see the reason to complain you get a nice chuck of money and at least 1 die almost every run.

At most the WoE version will take 4 weeks with drop rates doing it 1 hr a day without buying any, it could be done in 25 hrs straight, vs. 6 months if supply stays high enough to support people buying plates.

I'm talking about lvl 95 upgrades not the upgrades as a whole so I fail to see how it's flawed logic thinking 10% in 2 evenings for the WoE's version isn't bad for a casual player they didn't specify if they we're taling about coins or dies either, the casual player won't ever see a 95 empyrian unless the plates required or price drop tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

My point was compared to the empyrian path the WoE's path is a joke 1500 vs 100 how is it so slow for everyone I don't see the reason to complain you get a nice chuck of money and at least 1 die almost every run.

At most the WoE version will take 4 weeks with drop rates doing it 1 hr a day without buying any, it could be done in 25 hrs straight, vs. 6 months if supply stays high enough to support people buying plates.

I'm talking about lvl 95 upgrades not the upgrades as a whole so I fail to see how it's flawed logic thinking 10% in 2 evenings for the WoE's version isn't bad for a casual player they didn't specify if they we're taling about coins or dies either, the casual player won't ever see a 95 empyrian unless the plates required or price drop tremendously.

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A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

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Originally Posted by Zagen

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

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Man, you really don't get it. Just because you have a shell with people willing to drop everything to get you your empy, or because you have access to dual boxing, or are willing to shout for hours for enough noobs willing to do your bidding, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat.

Seriously.

Empy is faster if you have the resources. Yes. We all agree. So frigging what? WoE weapon is for casual players like me, who just want to show up, and get a shot at the items they want. If you think empy is so much better, why you complaining about WoE weapon anyway? Just go get your empy in 25 hours or w/e and stop complaining about how long it takes to get a weapon you think sucks anyway.

Also, WoE is WAY more fun than spamming NMs in abyssea (for me) and I play games to have fun, not to wave my e-peen in people's faces.

I play for like 2 hours many nights, not more, I don't want to spend 1.45 hours of that shouting for fools in PJ willing to do all the work for my emp.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Man, you really don't get it. Just because you have a shell with people willing to drop everything to get you your empy, or because you have access to dual boxing, or are willing to shout for hours for enough noobs willing to do your bidding, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat.

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You still don't get the point without people in WoE you aren't able to get jack so when they leave to get a WoE weapon you have to shout or ask your LS.

You're not in the same boat because you choose not to be, that's not anyone else's fault but yours.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Empy is faster if you have the resources. Yes. We all agree. So frigging what? WoE weapon is for casual players like me, who just want to show up, and get a shot at the items they want. If you think empy is so much better, why you complaining about WoE weapon anyway? Just go get your empy in 25 hours or w/e and stop complaining about how long it takes to get a weapon you think sucks anyway.

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WoE weapons without people is impossible for casual players. When you get people together for it, it should be faster than getting those people together for Emps instead.

Why do I care about WoE weapons being slower? Simply because casual players should have a chance at a fun toy even if it is inferior to the alternative. That being said I believe it should require less effort to get the WoE version than the Emp version because it is inferior even at its current highest upgraded state compared to the 85 stage of an Emp.

When people stop farming WoE (already happening) you and all casual players get screwed. And WoE goes back to the way it was, empty except for people shouting for SMN/BST groups. If you have to shout what's the point in shouting for WoE when shouting for Emp gets you a better weapon and almost always in less time than you'd take to make a WoE weapon?

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Originally Posted by Olor

I play for like 2 hours many nights, not more, I don't want to spend 1.45 hours of that shouting for fools in PJ willing to do all the work for my emp.

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Find a friend who plays the same time frame as you and get an Emp without shouting, even duoing I'll bet you get an Emp you want done before a WoE weapon you want done. NIN + WHM. For example my friend and I would split up Briareus farming over 2 nights (1 for KIs the other for NM fights) many times because we didn't have much time to play.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

You still don't get the point without people in WoE you aren't able to get jack so when they leave to get a WoE weapon you have to shout or ask your LS.

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There ARE people in WoE though - that's where you're missing the point man. If they made it so you got all your coin drops in 1 week of 2 runs a night, though, there wouldn't be anyone there right away though.

I think they ought to retune some of the fluxes - make them max 6 people, max 10 people etc so that when the event gets less popular it will still be a causal event - but increasing coin drops would just make it so no one was doing it AT THIS MOMENT because they would have all gotten their weapon in two days of spamming.

I don't see how arguing for more coin drops will extend the life of this event.

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Originally Posted by Olor

There ARE people in WoE though - that's where you're missing the point man. If they made it so you got all your coin drops in 1 week of 2 runs a night, though, there wouldn't be anyone there right away though.

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On Bismarck it already has dead times.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I don't see how arguing for more coin drops will extend the life of this event.

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The coins have nothing to do with the life of the event >.> the money drops do. If the coins were the reason to do WoE it wouldn't have been dead during an era where coins were easier to get when discounting leechers.

I have to agree with everything olor is saying. I don't want to get people to farm a empyrean weapon for me. I can farm 4-5 woe faster then I could a empyrean. I am already done with one of my woe after only 2 weeks of doing it and I am 2/3 done with 2 other weapons and 1/3 done with 2 other weapons. Another week of spamming woe and I should have FIVE weapons done. I'd like to see someone farm 5 empyrean weapons for themselves in 3 weeks worth of time. And to people saying woe are gimped or LOL at least I can get my woe to 95 without spending tons of Gil and using people.

I can for sure see a time when WOE becomes a ghost town again it already has started to dry up at certain times of the day on shiva. The only conflux that can be consistently counted on during my prime time is #7. The new win it for all or lose and get nothing is simply a horrible horrible idea for this event.....

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Originally Posted by svengalis

I have to agree with everything olor is saying. I don't want to get people to farm a empyrean weapon for me. I can farm 4-5 woe faster then I could a empyrean. I am already done with one of my woe after only 2 weeks of doing it and I am 2/3 done with 2 other weapons and 1/3 done with 2 other weapons. Another week of spamming woe and I should have FIVE weapons done. I'd like to see someone farm 5 empyrean weapons for themselves in 3 weeks worth of time. And to people saying woe are gimped or LOL at least I can get my woe to 95 without spending tons of Gil and using people.

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I agree with the concept of aiming for multiples at once because of the way WoE is designed but that's the only way it is more beneficial than farming Emp weapons. Again while people are still spamming it.

LOL all you want with your 95 weapon, it doesn't change the fact that the level 85 Emp version is better even at 10 levels below it.

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

Edit: I'm making WoE dagger because I got enough coins while going to WoE for the fun of it but I don't kid myself in thinking that it will compare to Twashtar 85 ever. As to why I'm not making the Emp version, well that's because I would rather spend the shells/scales on Ukonvasara.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

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It isn't using people when everyone gets the exact same benefits, when people can leave or join whenever they want without explaining themselves to anyone, and when you don't even have to talk to each other to mutually benefit.

With Empy Farming the rewards are asymmetrical - with WoE everyone can build a weapon/farm scrolls/etc at the same time. Empy farming is a zero sum game. WoE is mutualism at work.

So next time I'm doing sobek and one of the other ninjas I know needs the +2 items from him, I'll be sure and tell him "Sorry, your my friend. I wouldn't want to use you like that.".

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Originally Posted by Olor

It isn't using people when everyone gets the exact same benefits, when people can leave or join whenever they want without explaining themselves to anyone, and when you don't even have to talk to each other to mutually benefit.

With Empy Farming the rewards are asymmetrical - with WoE everyone can build a weapon/farm scrolls/etc at the same time. Empy farming is a zero sum game. WoE is mutualism at work.

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Everyone uses everyone else. Just because you perceived to be getting a mutual benefit in WoE vs. Emp runs doesn't change the fact you're being used and the others there are being used.

Emp rewards (seals/+2s/items) are asymmetrical because you perceive them to be so, not everyone feels that way. And again if a person agrees that a chance at X item is enough for their help they aren't being used anymore than they're using the leader who's getting Emp items and is organizing the run.

At the point the agreement is made then the rewards are just as equal as a chance at scrolls, your own coins, etc. You don't seem to get this.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I agree with the concept of aiming for multiples at once because of the way WoE is designed but that's the only way it is more beneficial than farming Emp weapons. Again while people are still spamming it.

LOL all you want with your 95 weapon, it doesn't change the fact that the level 85 Emp version is better even at 10 levels below it.

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

Edit: I'm making WoE dagger because I got enough coins while going to WoE for the fun of it but I don't kid myself in thinking that it will compare to Twashtar 85 ever. As to why I'm not making the Emp version, well that's because I would rather spend the shells/scales on Ukonvasara.

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Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will. I don't even team up with people SMN ftw. Also even if I had the resources I wouldn't waste my time farming a emp dagger because the classes that use it are not that good at dd sorry guys but it's true :(. Its like farming an empyrean for whm. And yeah I am only doing dagger +3 because I have the coins. I might even do Tobi +3 to even though I have a Kannagi because it seems much more realistic that I can that to its 99 version with half the effort.

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Originally Posted by HimuraKenshyn

I can for sure see a time when WOE becomes a ghost town again it already has started to dry up at certain times of the day on shiva. The only conflux that can be consistently counted on during my prime time is #7. The new win it for all or lose and get nothing is simply a horrible horrible idea for this event.....

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Yeah that is going to be a problem. Same is happening on Phoenix. Maybe 99 will add use to the extra coins and/or give people reason to continue woe I don't know.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will.

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So you're telling me that if those people weren't there you'd still get items bro? You're using them just as much as they're using you. While they may be able to participate as individuals they still need to function as a group to succeed.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

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Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

I got a Verethragna(85) and a Revenant Fists +2 (finished before starting the Verethragna).. why would I even want to do Walk of Echoes to upgrade the Revenant Fists to +3?

Only reason I didn't toss the Rev Fists yet is because it might be needed for final Verethragna 99/100... I got a suspicion final trial is going to be:
'To upgrade Verethragna(95), bring me a Revenant Fists +3, Ursine Claws +3 and Taipan Fangs +3'

Still want some spells from #8-#11 and Devious Dice for Badelaire +2, but if that takes too much effort I'll just do Almace instead.

Morale of the story: do WoE now, or pray SE adds more solid incentives to do WoE later.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

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A couple things for you to consider/think about:

Look into how exactly damage works compared to occasionally deals double damage. You'll see that a bit of extra base damage won't make up for doing double the damage with Aftermath active.

I don't know how bad it is on your server but Guku was bot camped almost 24/7 on my server which made it faster to gold box farm. That is done best by BLU Charged Whisker, however also works with WAR Fell Cleave, or Dagger Aeolian Edge spam. WAR option is the only one that can't be soloed, this of course depends on your job options available. But it opens up a few things you can help your friends/ls level sub/new jobs or sell spots and make gil leeching random people.

Apademak is one of the harder Aby NMs but it can be done with or without brews. Also what a lot of people were doing was locking Horns and giving away all other items for someone to brew several pops.

I'm not saying you should or have to go this route (AoE farming KIs for Sobek or shouting for brewers on Apa), I'm just pointing out there are options that have worked in the past allowing you to get up to level 90 version of an Emp.

Again reinforcing the suggestion of look into how melee damage works (Base DMG and Occasionally Deals Double Damage) because unless WoE weapons are given something more they won't beat out Emp 85 with just base damage boost.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if level 99 WoE got the current aftermath and 99 Emps got 100% proc rate and the damage increased by after math level instead of activation rate, but that sounds overpowered lol.

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

Are WoE weapons inferior to Emps, of course! Are WoE weapons better than most of the other stuff out there? Yup. Will WoE weapons be easier to upgrade all the way to 99, probably.

I know it may seem like EVERYONE has an Emp weapon, but really, it's still the minority. I'm also willing to bet most people that have them now were the people who were hardcore back in the day and who had all the nice gear. Even WoE weapons, they're not THAT common, I still see a tons of jobs ws'ing away with their Blade: Jin's and Tachi: Gekko's, and Asectic's Fury. I get that this game has become min-maxing stats for a lot of people, but for those 50 that love to min-max stuff, there's probably 500 who don't give two shits.

So if you really want to be the best, go for the Emp, if you're like me and content with doing pretty good all around, go for WoE. I have a WoE Fudo GK, and I can assure you I out parse most of the sams out there, minus the Masamune ones. Even then, some are so poorly geared I still out parse them. Fact is too, the more I do WoE Flux 7, the easier it is to do a WoE weapon, BIG time, 52 decay, 33 Advancement, 23 Glory, 35 Birth and god knows how many Ruins. Once I'm out of here I can have Fudo, Jinshu, Blade: Hi, Rudra, and R. Fists. That's pretty friggen nuts, especially since stuff like Jinshu, Fudo do extrememly well without aftermath.

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Originally Posted by Montsegur

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

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The thing is it requires more resources to complete a WoE weapon. Emps can be soloed WoE weapons can't. When WoE dies down again (already started on some servers) there will be no point in going for a WoE weapon because it takes more effort than an Emp.

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

A lot of the people on here think WoE is easier because people are spamming the event, and that is true it is easier because when people spam the event you don't have worry about leading a group, you don't have to worry about being good at whatever job you break as long as you do enough to rank.

People are arguing that WoE is casual friendly when in reality it is only casual friendly when people are spamming it. When people stop randomly spamming WoE it is no longer casual friendly.

What happens when the new factor wears off? What happens when a truly casual gamer who's playing 10 hours a week happens to get screwed because WoE is dead during the time they can get on? Where is their easy, casual friendly alternative to an Emp?

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Originally Posted by Zagen

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

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How is it more effort to simply show up than it is to shout for people on specific jobs, and compete with other groups for NMs?

Yes, we all agree SE will need to work to ensure there are enough rewards in WoE for people to want to continue doing it, but saying it is more effort to complete one is a lie.

If you truly cared about the poor poor casuals who should be making an empy instead of a WoE weapon you would support my suggestion thread. Retuning some of the fluxes for fewer people should ensure that even when some of the hype dies down people can farm their coins.

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Originally Posted by Olor

How is it more effort to simply show up than it is to shout for people on specific jobs, and compete with other groups for NMs?

Yes, we all agree SE will need to work to ensure there are enough rewards in WoE for people to want to continue doing it, but saying it is more effort to complete one is a lie..

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How many people do you need minimum to clear #7? 2 SMNs.

How many people do you need minimum to farm Emps? 1 player, job varies depending on path.

See how its harder?

You can simply show up because people are doing it, what happens when they stop?

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Originally Posted by Olor

If you truly cared about the poor poor casuals who should be making an empy instead of a WoE weapon you would support my suggestion thread. Retuning some of the fluxes for fewer people should ensure that even when some of the hype dies down people can farm their coins.

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I do care. Well I should say I care about the ones who aren't lazy.

I support random players pursuing an Emp by going on a job they need in exchange for a chance at a +2 item I want.

In the past I even occasionally supported random players pursuing WoE weapons by joining them because WoE is fun at times.

I support the players in my LS by giving them full pop sets for the Emp item they want in exchange for +2 items I want. In cases where nothing I want drops I give them all the drops or open them up to others helping.

Reducing the amount required to clear certain zones also means reducing the rewards given, because that's how SE does it so why would I suggest that? After all my stance is WoE weapons should be easier which means increased drop rate, a universal coin, or a 3:1 conversion option. Because all of those options actually make the event easier without gimping anything.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

The thing is it requires more resources to complete a WoE weapon. Emps can be soloed WoE weapons can't. When WoE dies down again (already started on some servers) there will be no point in going for a WoE weapon because it takes more effort than an Emp.

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

A lot of the people on here think WoE is easier because people are spamming the event, and that is true it is easier because when people spam the event you don't have worry about leading a group, you don't have to worry about being good at whatever job you break as long as you do enough to rank.

People are arguing that WoE is casual friendly when in reality it is only casual friendly when people are spamming it. When people stop randomly spamming WoE it is no longer casual friendly.

What happens when the new factor wears off? What happens when a truly casual gamer who's playing 10 hours a week happens to get screwed because WoE is dead during the time they can get on? Where is their easy, casual friendly alternative to an Emp?

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I get where you're coming from, but WoE has always been popular on JP prime time, I got my Fudo done way back before all this started, it wasn't that bad. The jp's would get on around 8pm EST and usually go until 5-6am, especially during weekends. So that's what, 5pm to 2am PST? I know Euro's get the shaft, but I get the feeling they often get it, so I kind of ignore them (though I shouldn't). For flux 7, you really only need 5-6 people tops to finish it and I'm almost positive a well geared melee + whm could duo it. This is really the only flux of concern as it's the one that drops the most coins if we're talking about weapons.

If the JP have been at this for over a year, I can't see them just stopping all of a sudden, I think they'll always be enough people around during peak times to get things done. Also, if SE is smart (HUGE if), they'll keep adding scrolls all the way through 99 here that drop in WoE and nowhere else but WoE. Then, there's 99, flux 7, it'll be a joke. What's dying to some people too? Yes, there's not 150 people like the first few nights, but I'm usually competing to get into flux 7 and sometimes don't even get in. My suggestion if you feel it's slowing down, come out on weekends, they'll be plenty of people 24/7 from Friday-Sunday.

If people were spamming this shit before, they'll keep spamming it. Now that it's known that 7 is the coin giver, and that's a joke to win, I think it'll keep up. I still think for me, this is easier then an Emp weapon. I guess we'll just have to wait and see a few months down the road how dead WoE is.

Montsegur that must be your server. Before the update on Bismarck during 8am-1/2am PST (during the week or weekend, though I didn't go/check everyday nonstop) there would be one party of 5 JP SMNs that would do WoE, same 5 people doing #5 or #7 if #5 was taken which neither has/had money drops so they must have been spamming for coins.

When a "leecher" entered with them they would all exit and wait until the next game day. If the leecher didn't go away they would just leave.

Other than that group and 1-2 English speaking shouters who went once in a while again as a pet group spamming #5 for 1-3 runs.

Other than those 2-3 groups all there ever was were people soloing crabs/antlions.

As to competing for 7 I never had that issue, I did with 9 and 11 though those used to fill up to cap as soon as the day changed.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So next time I'm doing sobek and one of the other ninjas I know needs the +2 items from him, I'll be sure and tell him "Sorry, your my friend. I wouldn't want to use you like that.".

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And I am sure it will take him 25+ kills to get those 9 ardor coins he needs.

Because he a) only needs coins or b) if he's your friend why wouldn't he help you or c) if one ninja you've shouted for gets his stuff and leaves, find another who still needs drops?

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

c) if one ninja you've shouted for gets his stuff and leaves, find another who still needs drops?

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Yes, because shouting for a random (who may or may not be a complete idiot) is a lot easier than just showing up to WoE on BST and joining the other people who are kicking butt.

See Zagen's posts because you missed them. I'm sorry finding people to help you in a MMO is so hard for you. At least you leveled the right job to solo the game with though.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Yes, because shouting for a random (who may or may not be a complete idiot) is a lot easier than just showing up to WoE on BST and joining the other people who are kicking butt.

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Uh

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Yah, Because going to Walk of Echoes with Random people (Who may or may not even be there, and who may or may not be complete idiots) is so much better than taking friends, or finding help to kill Idiot proof NMs

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Really, It seems like (in both sides of the arguments) you guys are just wildly exaggerating the negatives and positives of each instance.

Though i firmly believe Walk of Echoes sucks, when it comes to "Coins". Especially if you're trying to do just 1 Weapon. You have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the coin you want, If you even get a coin. Where as with Empyreans, You kill NM, You get at least 1 of the item you want.

Walk of Echoes is more of a dumb luck system, Empyrean farming is a tangible goal, where you can actually make a Min/Max Timeline of how long/how many kills it should take. You cannot do this with WoE as you have no guaranteed drop.

Both sides have positives and negatives, however, Empyreans are far easier than people make them seem, if you're doing all the effort of those trials, Go big or go home, You may as well get the real weapon, even if you just take it to 85, its better than the current 95 WoE weapons, and will likely still be better than their 99 WoE versions.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Uh



Really, It seems like (in both sides of the arguments) you guys are just wildly exaggerating the negatives and positives of each instance.

Though i firmly believe Walk of Echoes sucks, when it comes to "Coins". Especially if you're trying to do just 1 Weapon. You have a 1 in 5 chance of getting the coin you want, If you even get a coin. Where as with Empyreans, You kill NM, You get at least 1 of the item you want.

Walk of Echoes is more of a dumb luck system, Empyrean farming is a tangible goal, where you can actually make a Min/Max Timeline of how long/how many kills it should take. You cannot do this with WoE as you have no guaranteed drop.

Both sides have positives and negatives, however, Empyreans are far easier than people make them seem, if you're doing all the effort of those trials, Go big or go home, You may as well get the real weapon, even if you just take it to 85, its better than the current 95 WoE weapons, and will likely still be better than their 99 WoE versions.

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It depends on the weapon and your server. La Theine weapons are easy as hell, as is staff. But on Bahamut you are going to have a hell of a time trying to get Fistule or anything in Tahrongi. Fistule is constantly camped, as are the free spawn KI NMs in Tahrongi. And since Tahrongi as so many KIs, good luck getting the ones you want in a cleave. I want to punch a puppy every time I go into Tahrongi and we still have 1 and a half glavoid weapons to do.

And people ask me why I don't want an Empyrean. >_>