Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

[FrankReynolds]

So next time I'm doing sobek and one of the other ninjas I know needs the +2 items from him, I'll be sure and tell him "Sorry, your my friend. I wouldn't want to use you like that.".

[Zagen]

It isn't using people when everyone gets the exact same benefits, when people can leave or join whenever they want without explaining themselves to anyone, and when you don't even have to talk to each other to mutually benefit.

With Empy Farming the rewards are asymmetrical - with WoE everyone can build a weapon/farm scrolls/etc at the same time. Empy farming is a zero sum game. WoE is mutualism at work.

Everyone uses everyone else. Just because you perceived to be getting a mutual benefit in WoE vs. Emp runs doesn't change the fact you're being used and the others there are being used.

Emp rewards (seals/+2s/items) are asymmetrical because you perceive them to be so, not everyone feels that way. And again if a person agrees that a chance at X item is enough for their help they aren't being used anymore than they're using the leader who's getting Emp items and is organizing the run.

At the point the agreement is made then the rewards are just as equal as a chance at scrolls, your own coins, etc. You don't seem to get this.

[svengalis]

I agree with the concept of aiming for multiples at once because of the way WoE is designed but that's the only way it is more beneficial than farming Emp weapons. Again while people are still spamming it.

LOL all you want with your 95 weapon, it doesn't change the fact that the level 85 Emp version is better even at 10 levels below it.

Also LOL at not using people, you're using people in WoE to get your weapon...

Edit: I'm making WoE dagger because I got enough coins while going to WoE for the fun of it but I don't kid myself in thinking that it will compare to Twashtar 85 ever. As to why I'm not making the Emp version, well that's because I would rather spend the shells/scales on Ukonvasara.

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will. I don't even team up with people SMN ftw. Also even if I had the resources I wouldn't waste my time farming a emp dagger because the classes that use it are not that good at dd sorry guys but it's true . Its like farming an empyrean for whm. And yeah I am only doing dagger +3 because I have the coins. I might even do Tobi +3 to even though I have a Kannagi because it seems much more realistic that I can that to its 99 version with half the effort.

[svengalis]

I can for sure see a time when WOE becomes a ghost town again it already has started to dry up at certain times of the day on shiva. The only conflux that can be consistently counted on during my prime time is #7. The new win it for all or lose and get nothing is simply a horrible horrible idea for this event.....

Yeah that is going to be a problem. Same is happening on Phoenix. Maybe 99 will add use to the extra coins and/or give people reason to continue woe I don't know.

[Zagen]

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro. I am not using anyone in woe, everyone is there on their own free will.

So you're telling me that if those people weren't there you'd still get items bro? You're using them just as much as they're using you. While they may be able to participate as individuals they still need to function as a group to succeed.

[Afania]

A level 95 WoE weapon is still inferior to a level 85 Emp.

In that 25 hours you could have collected items to get an Emp 85 thus making a better weapon than that 95 version. Actually you could have built 2 Emps to 85 in that time with the amount of people required to clear new WoE zones. This is why your logic is flawed. It takes double the time to make an inferior weapon. It should take less or be on par not more.

Also keep in mind you have to get 30 coins you want/need as well as the relevant 100 pieces because if they don't match up it takes even more time

Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

[Kristal]

I got a Verethragna(85) and a Revenant Fists +2 (finished before starting the Verethragna).. why would I even want to do Walk of Echoes to upgrade the Revenant Fists to +3?

Only reason I didn't toss the Rev Fists yet is because it might be needed for final Verethragna 99/100... I got a suspicion final trial is going to be:
'To upgrade Verethragna(95), bring me a Revenant Fists +3, Ursine Claws +3 and Taipan Fangs +3'

Still want some spells from #8-#11 and Devious Dice for Badelaire +2, but if that takes too much effort I'll just do Almace instead.

Morale of the story: do WoE now, or pray SE adds more solid incentives to do WoE later.

[Zagen]

Tbh before we go to lv 99 it's hard to know whether WoE is worth it or not. I've always wanted sword empy WS for a while, and lv 95 WoE sword actually has more base dmg than lv 85 Almace. By the time it get to lv 99 the base dmg difference may make WoE weapon on same lv as lv 85 empy itself especially in situations where you WS more, or if you play a job like BLU which spend time to cast a lot.

There's no way I can upgrade empy sword to lv 95. I may be able to finish 80 by dragging and bugging friends to do red proc(And no, I don't have an Abyssea group, and don't want to lv Abyssea proc jobs I don't enjoy playing), and push it to 85 by dragging friends to camp Guk with me more, but that's pushing the the limit of friend's resource and my playtime, and it'll probably stay at 85. Lv 90 and 95? There's no way I can do anymore Abby NM after dragging ppl through 80~85(especially one of the hardest lv 90 Abby NM), and certainly not spending 150M+ on metals. And who knows what will come at lv 99. 10000 X-item? By that time lv 99 WoE weapon probably beats it.

I think we should look at trials as a whole, easy lv 85 empy doesn't mean it's easy to 99.

A couple things for you to consider/think about:

Look into how exactly damage works compared to occasionally deals double damage. You'll see that a bit of extra base damage won't make up for doing double the damage with Aftermath active.

I don't know how bad it is on your server but Guku was bot camped almost 24/7 on my server which made it faster to gold box farm. That is done best by BLU Charged Whisker, however also works with WAR Fell Cleave, or Dagger Aeolian Edge spam. WAR option is the only one that can't be soloed, this of course depends on your job options available. But it opens up a few things you can help your friends/ls level sub/new jobs or sell spots and make gil leeching random people.

Apademak is one of the harder Aby NMs but it can be done with or without brews. Also what a lot of people were doing was locking Horns and giving away all other items for someone to brew several pops.

I'm not saying you should or have to go this route (AoE farming KIs for Sobek or shouting for brewers on Apa), I'm just pointing out there are options that have worked in the past allowing you to get up to level 90 version of an Emp.

Again reinforcing the suggestion of look into how melee damage works (Base DMG and Occasionally Deals Double Damage) because unless WoE weapons are given something more they won't beat out Emp 85 with just base damage boost.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if level 99 WoE got the current aftermath and 99 Emps got 100% proc rate and the damage increased by after math level instead of activation rate, but that sounds overpowered lol.

[Montsegur]

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

Are WoE weapons inferior to Emps, of course! Are WoE weapons better than most of the other stuff out there? Yup. Will WoE weapons be easier to upgrade all the way to 99, probably.

I know it may seem like EVERYONE has an Emp weapon, but really, it's still the minority. I'm also willing to bet most people that have them now were the people who were hardcore back in the day and who had all the nice gear. Even WoE weapons, they're not THAT common, I still see a tons of jobs ws'ing away with their Blade: Jin's and Tachi: Gekko's, and Asectic's Fury. I get that this game has become min-maxing stats for a lot of people, but for those 50 that love to min-max stuff, there's probably 500 who don't give two shits.

So if you really want to be the best, go for the Emp, if you're like me and content with doing pretty good all around, go for WoE. I have a WoE Fudo GK, and I can assure you I out parse most of the sams out there, minus the Masamune ones. Even then, some are so poorly geared I still out parse them. Fact is too, the more I do WoE Flux 7, the easier it is to do a WoE weapon, BIG time, 52 decay, 33 Advancement, 23 Glory, 35 Birth and god knows how many Ruins. Once I'm out of here I can have Fudo, Jinshu, Blade: Hi, Rudra, and R. Fists. That's pretty friggen nuts, especially since stuff like Jinshu, Fudo do extrememly well without aftermath.

[Zagen]

I don't see what the big deal is, if you have the resources to do up to a level 85-90 Emp weapon, then do it. If you don't, and really feel you'll waste too much time in Abyssea trying to solo it, then do a WoE weapon.

The thing is it requires more resources to complete a WoE weapon. Emps can be soloed WoE weapons can't. When WoE dies down again (already started on some servers) there will be no point in going for a WoE weapon because it takes more effort than an Emp.

For an inferior weapon option don't you feel its poor design that it requires more effort than the superior weapon?

A lot of the people on here think WoE is easier because people are spamming the event, and that is true it is easier because when people spam the event you don't have worry about leading a group, you don't have to worry about being good at whatever job you break as long as you do enough to rank.

People are arguing that WoE is casual friendly when in reality it is only casual friendly when people are spamming it. When people stop randomly spamming WoE it is no longer casual friendly.

What happens when the new factor wears off? What happens when a truly casual gamer who's playing 10 hours a week happens to get screwed because WoE is dead during the time they can get on? Where is their easy, casual friendly alternative to an Emp?