This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

Done 12 Yumcax so far (Every fight for him that has started on my server) and have only seen the neck and hands drop. I have also had capped bayld from all of these fights.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

2 things:

1) WKR would still take longer and require more participation than delve to earn that 20k plasm (first do multiple skirmish/reives, then participate enough to cap out exp/bayl in wkr).

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Not really Frank. I'm not disagreeing that something needs to be done. I just think Plasm should be left alone for Delve and something else be added to WR. If anyone can join at any % of the fight doesn't mean people are going to spend all day just to wait for the boss to die and earn 20k Plasm.

You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

I even got to Hurkan at 30% HP and it died in less than 15 minutes. That only tells me others could do the same. People that should be focusing on earning Delve Gear/Weapons and maxing those ranks should be doing Delve, not show up to WR.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

2) Matsui's response was pretty much blowing that guy off. He basically said "Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I'm not listening to your complaints. It just means I don't care what you think...".

Imagine how unproductive these forums would be (as if they aren't bad enough) if we just ignored differing opinions instead of actually debating with each other. They might as well take away the thread function and make every post a single thread that cannot be responded to like a static website with un-editable pages.

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I still think he has proven to us in the last 2 updates that he is trying to make things better. I mean even his people were angry, not just us.

Well people like me who debates on ideas also shows other people different points of view, gives the OP a free bump to bring the thread back up and keeps the topic going longer :)

As long as we are being respectful with each other then debates are fun!

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You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

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This illustrates how little you understand about WK reives. Plasm, like bayld, would be based on participation and you can only participate so much in such a short amount of HP. You wouldn't cap, you wouldn't even come close, especially if the battle was brimming with players. You'd be lucky to get there in time at all. Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

You see shouts in town "Yumcax 23% HP left come join quick!!"

I even got to Hurkan at 30% HP and it died in less than 15 minutes. That only tells me others could do the same. People that should be focusing on earning Delve Gear/Weapons and maxing those ranks should be doing Delve, not show up to WR.

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Both of those situations are highly, ridiculously idealized. If I had been able to join every one of my Wildskeeper wins in-progress while the fight was going smoothly and quickly I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

This illustrates how little you understand about WK reives. Plasm, like bayld, would be based on participation and you can only participate so much in such a short amount of HP. You wouldn't cap, you wouldn't even come close, especially if the battle was brimming with players. You'd be lucky to get there in time at all. Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

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I know how WoE works. Which yes depending on how much you contribute to the fight. Which is also the same as Colonization Reives. This isn't something new. Which is what you mean by WR.

But then again that's why you see summoner in colonization reives go and spam Garuda heals, Mages in WoE spamming Nukes to get in as much as they can to qualify. But WR is harder and requires much better gear, capped skills than previous content.

The problem is, if no one does Delve anymore because people's interest is directed to WR. Which means all those people who have Delve weapons and STILL need plasm for other gears and weapons for other jobs that their presence to join parties could help those who need delve? What other choice will people coming from Abyssea to Adoulin have other than show up gimp to WR?

You just pointed out the reason why this would separate people further by providing another gap between players.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Like bayld, you might earn a small amount at the end, but the amount rewarded throughout would be the lion's share.

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This comment only tells me this benefit is meant to help high end players succeed better. When I'm saying it won't.

We need people prepared for WR to show up and contribute to the fight, not undergeared players show up and make it harder for those who are ready.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Both of those situations are highly, ridiculously idealized. If I had been able to join every one of my Wildskeeper wins in-progress while the fight was going smoothly and quickly I probably wouldn't have even posted in this thread.

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I wouldn't know how your server is but this morning DJ asked me if I wanted to join Yumcax. I saw the shout was 28% HP and in about 3 minutes dropped to 24%. I told him at that rate ill never get there in time and he agreed.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

The problem is, if no one does Delve anymore because people's interest is directed to WR. Which means all those people who have Delve weapons and STILL need plasm for other gears and weapons for other jobs that their presence to join parties could help those who need delve? What other choice will people coming from Abyssea to Adoulin have other than show up gimp to WR?

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You can do just fine in the first three with abyssea gear. I got full bayld from my first run on ninja. Currently most delve shouts only want people with delve gear or mage jobs. So a guy on a melee job is gonna get delve gear a lot faster this way and since it caps, the "elite" players don't get any better rewards or plasm. Everyone is pretty much even in that respect. They just get a little more afk time after they hit the cap. Which works out fine because people don't usually start flocking to these until they have been whittled down some and once they do, you don't really want a bunch of uber DDS crushing it before everyone else gets a chance to earn their keep.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

You just pointed out the reason why this would separate people further by providing another gap between players.

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There is no gap. everyone is illegible for the same plasm / bayld / drops. The only people who get screwed are people who show up late. Which is the case now anyways.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

This comment only tells me this benefit is meant to help high end players succeed better. When I'm saying it won't.

We need people prepared for WR to show up and contribute to the fight, not undergeared players show up and make it harder for those who are ready.

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I don't really see how anyone with a stack of sushi and a reraise item / spell could be under-geared for the first three and since I'm sure that's where most people would go if they were looking to cap bayld / plasm fast and easy, I don't really see the problem.

EDIT: on a related note, anyone who doesn't have delve gear or a desireable support job is SOL on cerberus anyways. There is literally like 1 shout per day for NQ plasm runs. Everything else is Boss runs looking for 3/4 song bard and stun set scholars.

The NM probably does need a very geared tank, and a good healer / backup healer / bard / cor ... something.

Beyond that, if people's skills are capped and their gear is decent (I mean, even bayld gear like karieyh, orvail), people can participate and do well, or should be able to if SE would teak the system.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You can do just fine in the first three with abyssea gear. I got full bayld from my first run on ninja. Currently most delve shouts only want people with delve gear or mage jobs. So a guy on a melee job is gonna get delve gear a lot faster this way and since it caps, the "elite" players don't get any better rewards or plasm. Everyone is pretty much even in that respect. They just get a little more afk time after they hit the cap. Which works out fine because people don't usually start flocking to these until they have been whittled down some and once they do, you don't really want a bunch of uber DDS crushing it before everyone else gets a chance to earn their keep.



There is no gap. everyone is illegible for the same plasm / bayld / drops. The only people who get screwed are people who show up late. Which is the case now anyways.





I don't really see how anyone with a stack of sushi and a reraise item / spell could be under-geared for the first three and since I'm sure that's where most people would go if they were looking to cap bayld / plasm fast and easy, I don't really see the problem.

EDIT: on a related note, anyone who doesn't have delve gear or a desireable support job is SOL on cerberus anyways. There is literally like 1 shout per day for NQ plasm runs. Everything else is Boss runs looking for 3/4 song bard and stun set scholars.

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Plasm is the main focus of Delve. Giving that away to WR would take away from Delve. People also relearn how to work as a team dodging or fighting each boss to earn those Kis. I still think giving 20k plasm in WR will direct everyone to WR and kill Delve. As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

People may ask others to have a Delve weapon but not everyone that leads a party will require that from everybody. I still see nice leaders only asking for REM and others who don't have these will show up on another job instead be it Mage class.

Delve parties require specific jobs, WR allows much more freedom to allow people to show up any job they want.

Unless you rather see people skip delve all together and just get Nakuul weapons instead and never have the need to touch Delve first, that's how I see the outcome of this idea. Which means everyone who did spend time earning Delve gear made it effortless to those who never entered Delve to get what you are now killing yourself trying to earn.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

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Huh. If 3k plasm runs die, nothing of value will be lost. If you're talking about mega boss runs, those will obviously continue to be the best. Even 10k 1-5 runs will be superior to Wildskeeper if time is a factor.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Huh. If 3k plasm runs die, nothing of value will be lost. If you're talking about mega boss runs, those will obviously continue to be the best. Even 10k 1-5 runs will be superior to Wildskeeper if time is a factor.

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Which those people needing 10k plasm would never go back to Delve and earn it. 3k is taking the example and making it sound worse than what the event can provide, which only shows a reason to support your idea of why its better. We all know people can earn 9k plasm with a good team >.>.

People who make profit off trading in plasm for Airelixers will no longer make any profit making plasm at some point useless to those who don't have anything else to buy / upgrade.

Time is also a reward for DEVs allowing them to work on updates. Making it easier to earn plasm will also make it faster for everyone to upgrade/purchase all Delve items leaving the DEV Team to come up with more content needed to keep everyone busy.

Look at it from all angles and not just what's convenient. Every idea may have a good side but also a bad side. At least now people needing plasm have a reason to participate in a speperate event. I'd rather have multiple things to do than be limited to doing everything in 1 event at the same time.

I see WR as an event like Six Flags. Not like the playground everyday at Recess. Definitely not like VW.

You may not like my arguments but DEVs are not stupid. I'm sure they are watching every event from all points of view maybe more than how I see it because they know the math behind every example. So I'm not trying to be difficult on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Which those people needing 10k plasm would never go back to Delve and earn it. 3k is taking the example and making it sound worse than what the event can provide, which only shows a reason to support your idea of why its better. We all know people can earn 9k plasm with a good team >.>.

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10k plasm in 45 minutes vs. 20k plasm (hypothetically) in 3 hours. Easy choice. Also, a good team capable of earning 9k farming trash mobs can easily clear 1-5 NMs instead. But also, those good players that can earn that much plasm are much more likely to target the mega boss for 70k plasm than settle for unpredictable trash mob farming.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

People who make profit off trading in plasm for Airelixers will no longer make any profit making plasm at some point useless to those who don't have anything else to buy / upgrade.

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This isn’t a very good argument since both events would hypothetically award plasm.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Look at it from all angles and not just what's convenient. Every idea may have a good side but also a bad side. At least now people needing plasm have a reason to participate in a speperate event. I'd rather have multiple things to do than be limited to doing everything in 1 event at the same time.

I see WR as an event like Six Flags. Not like the playground everyday at Recess. Definitely not like VW.

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Are you really worried that adding plasm to Wildskeeper would kill Delve? People will still do Delve. Adding plasm to Wildskeeper is just another way for casuals to earn plasm without having to deal with the various hurdles of joining a Delve group.

This argument is depressing. Many people here have presented several experiences of just... terrible luck with loot and terrible experiences fighting and while you talk about hypothetical change, you argue against any real change anyone offers, Daemon.

Others have said they did indeed get lucky and got their desired drop right away, and still despise the system.

The system doesn't work favorably. The ONLY thing a person can do to make the fight go better is to come on a good job for it and try to get others to do the same. If people don't want to, there's nothing you can do. If the fight should last 5 times longer than it should have, there's nothing you can do. At least past mass-havoc battles didn't have quite so important personal rewards, and none required such effort for personal investment.

In Besieged and Campaign, the NPC's picked up our slack, but there's none here and there shouldn't be, because the last thing we need is more lag.

SE needs to entice people to want to come to these things and this is a fair way to make that happen. That's all this idea is trying to do.

I think one of the problems is that you seem to be coming at this exansion sideways. In the beginning, there were only Naakual so some people did that.. Not everyone, but some. Naakual/Skirmish was the entry level event of the expansion. After that came Delve. You were meant to have good pre-Adoulin gear/bayld gear/skirmish*/WK to get into delve.

*We all know that skirmish failed to launch, that's not worth talking about.

You were meant to take delve weapons and delve gear to down delve NMs (smoothly, yeah, it had to be doable in the first place, but everyone had to play their A game...). I can be fairly sure that an alliance of pre-adoulin, but otherwise decked out, RME 99s couldn't clear a 1-5+Tojil, even knowing all the mechanics.

While more difficult, new Naakual are not so difficult that a person needs some great level of gear to attend. As matter of fact, the buffs to karieyh, etc, probably make them fine for killing fodder/ranged-ing the boss. A full orvail bard could participate and probably do as well as a gjallyharp-whch is not good, but that's because the system is designed poorly.

The only exception is smn, because smn gear is pretty unique and so they don't get a lot of summoner friendly stats on mage-wide gear, which is a favor toe mages in general.

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Originally Posted by detlef

10k plasm in 45 minutes vs. 20k plasm (hypothetically) in 3 hours. Easy choice. Also, a good team capable of earning 9k farming trash mobs can easily clear 1-5 NMs instead. But also, those good players that can earn that much plasm are much more likely to target the mega boss for 70k plasm than settle for unpredictable trash mob farming.

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It doesn't matter if it takes 3 hours to earn 20k plasm. Plasm is the main reward of Delve. You are asking to take the main reward from 1 event and add it on top of the rewards of another. Which still gives reason to skip Delve. Why waste my time doing 3 Delve runs when I can earn that on top of the chance of earning a Rare item at WR?

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Originally Posted by detlef

This isn’t a very good argument since both events would hypothetically award plasm.

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Did you misunderstand what I said? More plasm means the more people will buy more Airelixers which means the value will be less than what it is now.

It would be the same as increasing the drop rate of Dyna currency from the average person earning 250 per run into 600 currency per run which would mean the value of this would not be worth as much as it is now.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Are you really worried that adding plasm to Wildskeeper would kill Delve? People will still do Delve. Adding plasm to Wildskeeper is just another way for casuals to earn plasm without having to deal with the various hurdles of joining a Delve group.

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Every event has the same hurdles. You've event complained about such hurdles with WR.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

This argument is depressing. Many people here have presented several experiences of just... terrible luck with loot and terrible experiences fighting and while you talk about hypothetical change, you argue against any real change anyone offers, Daemon.

Others have said they did indeed get lucky and got their desired drop right away, and still despise the system.

The system doesn't work favorably. The ONLY thing a person can do to make the fight go better is to come on a good job for it and try to get others to do the same. If people don't want to, there's nothing you can do. If the fight should last 5 times longer than it should have, there's nothing you can do. At least past mass-havoc battles didn't have quite so important personal rewards, and none required such effort for personal investment.

In Besieged and Campaign, the NPC's picked up our slack, but there's none here and there shouldn't be, because the last thing we need is more lag.

SE needs to entice people to want to come to these things and this is a fair way to make that happen. That's all this idea is trying to do.

I think one of the problems is that you seem to be coming at this exansion sideways. In the beginning, there were only Naakual so some people did that.. Not everyone, but some. Naakual/Skirmish was the entry level event of the expansion. After that came Delve. You were meant to have good pre-Adoulin gear/bayld gear/skirmish*/WK to get into delve.

*We all know that skirmish failed to launch, that's not worth talking about.

You were meant to take delve weapons and delve gear to down delve NMs (smoothly, yeah, it had to be doable in the first place, but everyone had to play their A game...). I can be fairly sure that an alliance of pre-adoulin, but otherwise decked out, RME 99s couldn't clear a 1-5+Tojil, even knowing all the mechanics.

While more difficult, new Naakual are not so difficult that a person needs some great level of gear to attend. As matter of fact, the buffs to karieyh, etc, probably make them fine for killing fodder/ranged-ing the boss. A full orvail bard could participate and probably do as well as a gjallyharp-whch is not good, but that's because the system is designed poorly.

The only exception is smn, because smn gear is pretty unique and so they don't get a lot of summoner friendly stats on mage-wide gear, which is a favor toe mages in general.

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Present better ideas. I won't argue if the idea is good. I never disagreed that WR needs to be better. I just don't agree with something like adding plasm to WR.

You don't see SE adding Allied notes to WoE. What about assault points to Salvage? Why do besieged if you can earn points in Assault, NNI, Salvage? That's how I see your idea.

"They haven't done it in the past, so they shouldn't do it now" is a poor argument. Especially when they haven't added an event with these issues in the past.

All those things you listed did quite well in their heyday. Most (I gotta admit Bastion was awful) of SE's battle content has. Wildskeeper are not.

Remember when they added king abjurations to Einherjar? Hoo boy, that ruined everything.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

"They haven't done it in the past, so they shouldn't do it now" is a poor argument. Especially when they haven't added an event with these issues in the past.

All those things you listed did quite well in their heyday. Most (I gotta admit Bastion was awful) of SE's battle content has. Wildskeeper are not.

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That's not my argument >.>. When I run out of Imperial standing, I still join Besiege to earn it. The point is, although that event is several years old, I still go back and participate in that event. Which is why I see that the DEVs implemented it that way. To keep events like Besieged alive in a game with no ending.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Remember when they added king abjurations to Einherjar? Hoo boy, that ruined everything.

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Abjuration prizes is not the same as Currency. 1 item vs trillions of numbers that everyone can get has a bigger impact on the server.

Same as how Gil effects the economy. Plasm is a type of Currency. Making it easier to earn things also makes it faster to do things which speeds up the goal of how the Devs want a player to reach.

More plasm means obtaining Delve gear faster, upgrade faster, then what's the point of the event if Everyone gets everything, max upgrades everything fast? Same as asking to increase drop rate of everything in game.

As I said I know how these things work being on a private server of another game. Which is also how the DEV TEAM balances out the game based on time factor.

You know when they added Dynamis currency to the Penguin Ring event? Or when they added it to Campaign battle? Or when they added it to Meebles? I think that killed the game for me.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You know when they added Dynamis currency to the Penguin Ring event? Or when they added it to Campaign battle? Or when they added it to Meebles? I think that killed the game for me.

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Like adding beastly shank to Login campaign now brought the value down and those who farmed these items to earn a quick mil have no need to do BCNM anymore? Now have to compete with everyone to sell it for cheap gil?

Change has its bad effects for the price of convenience.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure cheap beastly shanks ruined the game. Doing KS99 was such a reliable way to make money since it's impossible to get Kindred's Seals anymore.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Yeah, I'm pretty sure cheap beastly shanks ruined the game. Doing KS99 was such a reliable way to make money since it's impossible to get Kindred's Seals anymore.

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Kindred seals were not impossible when everyone converted all other seals into Kindred seals to buy Themesis orbs >.>

And then what happened when people ran out of seals? People don't spend months and months killing mobs that drops KS anymore.

Couple of things.

On shanks, as I've gone through at least a hundred the last campaign, and still don't have a dring, this is just moving gil around. A month or so after the campaign (the new one), things should be fine.

Another reason shanks are so cheap is because you can't stack them up. Certainly, a lot of players would dedicate mules just to holding shanks, if they could and needing to.

You're worried what this would do the price of airlixirs.. Buddy, it's gonna happen anyway, whether it be from Tojil or WK reives. The price is already crashing and we'll eventually get to 200k +2s. That's just how things happen.

See, bleeding-edge hard cores will pay 10x the price of an NQ for an HQ. The insignifant difference may never be noticeable in a fight, but when this attitude is applied across all your gear, and across multiple/all people in your linkshell, that's part of how game-first wins and server-first wins happen. At that point, you have access to start selling airlixirs readily (in this case), and you get to recoup some gil. Many LS's also sold wins and recouped gil that way.

Hardcore players (not cutting-edge) have limits on how much they'll spend. They're happy with a Senbaak, and don't desire a +1. Good mid-level players have a smaller limit they'll spend, and they don't care if their performance suffers, they won't go past a certain point.

And it goes on down the line. Even once +2s hit 200k, there will be some people who refuse to buy them. It's all supply and demand, the price will drop as the average audience buying them becomes more and more casual, along with more and more people having access to sell them en-masse.

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Originally Posted by detlef

And then what happened when people ran out of seals? People don't spend months and months killing mobs that drops KS anymore.

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I got seals everywhere. From farming dark rings, to exp parties in abbyssea, especially while doing Magian trials. Farming boss Kis from Abby. Playing bosses in Abby. It's really not that hard. Most of my kindred seals were obtained from converting kindred Crests.

So you think the best use of your seals is to convert them to KS and then do KS99 to sell Beastly Shanks?

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

Another reason shanks are so cheap is because you can't stack them up. Certainly, a lot of players would dedicate mules just to holding shanks, if they could and needing to.

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Because you can't stack them is not really the reason why they are cheap. That was the reason they were so expensive to begin with because people could only hold/sell one at a time which makes it more time consuming.

They are cheap now because thousands of players can buy them, sell it. So it's not rare anymore and as items become more common, they become less valuable.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

You're worried what this would do the price of airlixirs.. Buddy, it's gonna happen anyway, whether it be from Tojil or WK reives. The price is already crashing and we'll eventually get to 200k +2s. That's just how things happen.

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Of course price will go down, but as less people need these, less people sell them which brings the price back up once its not available. But that will never happen if people have endless amounts of plasm to keep flooding the AH.

And speeding up the Delve process will only make everyone play the game faster. Unless DEVs adjust the cost of Delve gear and the amount of Airelixers to upgrade ranks. This isn't the same as Auction house where we can fluctuate the prices of items based on supply and demand and how much currency is available to the economy as a whole. In this case the difference is that Rare/EX is a one way path vs someone who pays for an item and decides to resell it later only to rebuy that gear all over again.

I only see people competing to sell Airelixers the same as BLM scrolls like Comet.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Because you can't stack them is not really the reason why they are cheap. That was the reason they were so expensive to begin with because people could only hold/sell one at a time which makes it more time consuming.

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Actually the shanks being unstackable and undeliverable is a huge factor. If I log in everyday I would have enough for 4 shanks. If I can only hold one at a time, I have to sell it as quickly as possible so because I have 3 more to move. If I could hold all 4 at a time or store them in my dbox, I would be far less pressed to sell.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Actually the shanks being unstackable and undeliverable is a huge factor. If I log in everyday I would have enough for 4 shanks. If I can only hold one at a time, I have to sell it as quickly as possible so because I have 3 more to move. If I could hold all 4 at a time or store them in my dbox, I would be far less pressed to sell.

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True but you are still pressing to sell your shanks vs the rest of the people who have them. This still falls under supply and demand.

Imagine us who had to spend time farming 1 shank only to wait for that to sell before we could hunt another one? That was more time consuming then running back to the NPC and getting another than spend 20-40 minutes killing Cheivnik.

My earlier point was that surely you could find a better value for your seals than doing KS99.

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Originally Posted by detlef

My earlier point was that surely you could find a better value for your seals than doing KS99.

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IMO not really. Shank and Tea are 100% drop vs the chance of not getting anything. Some of us did it for convenience.

A smart player would hold on to them for six months or so. That gives the price plenty of time to bounce back. Current shanks wouldn't be at 200-300k. They'd be at 500, more likely.

Because Defending Ring can fit in two slots, and we don't have a single ring that compares (I've never seen anything but a screenshot of a perfect dark ring. It's probably more practical to try to get a dring, and it's still nearly twice as good). Because of that, Defending ring is a safe buy for a good while, especially with the lackluster selection of DT gear in adoulin.

Well, anyway this was a pointless diversion. I think the only point made was that when you increase the supply of something, the price goes down.

Please tell me specifically who would be impacted if you could get plasm from Wildskeeper Reives.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

A smart player would hold on to them for six months or so. That gives the price plenty of time to bounce back. Current shanks wouldn't be at 200-300k. They'd be at 500, more likely.

Because Defending Ring can fit in two slots, and we don't have a single ring that compares (I've never seen anything but a screenshot of a perfect dark ring. It's probably more practical to try to get a dring, and it's still nearly twice as good). Because of that, Defending ring is a safe buy for a good while, especially with the lackluster selection of DT gear in adoulin.

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Yeah but a smart player would hold the last shank after the event is over because they don't stack. Part of the value of Shanks is because you can only hold 1 at a time.

I've actually seen someone with a perfect 3 aug maxed dark ring in town, I've never gotten one yet but this is the reason I still try hunting them. Also the Kindred Crests made it worth spending hours endlessly zerging mobs on Kon.[A].

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Originally Posted by detlef

Please tell me specifically who would be impacted if you could get plasm from Wildskeeper Reives.

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I'm only repeating myself. You should read my other replies.

Everyone would be impacted on a different level. High end players may enjoy having the ease of playing WR and earning Plasm at the same time, therefore no reason to go back and join plasm groups, help casuals or non casuals earn plasm for their gear and upgrades. That would subtract a good portion of players to do delve because they'd do WR instead.

Casuals, non casuals, players with multiple accounts, different jobs won't be able to find enough people to do delve groups because most people would do WR instead. Therefore those who do need gear and upgrades would have no choice but to join WR. Which means showing up gimp, undergeared to Hurkan, Yumcax will make these events even more laggy, more difficult for everyone who are there to play with proper gear.

Players that don't have any Delve gear or upgrades won't be able to do much to contribute to the fight so most likely will either die, be in the way, MPK other or make the event worse off than it is already.

End games, Casuals that have enough Delve gear/upgrades that make Gil selling off Airelixers would compete with more people because as more plasm is available, more people will flood the auction house with more Airelixers making it less valuable.

Once the majority of people have all delve gear/upgrades. Who needs plasm? Unless SE adds more ways to spend it.

Taking the main reward of 1 event and adding it in comparison to another event is enough reason to direct everyones interest to the event that can provide 2 rewards than 1 and since plasm is the main reward other than boss and Kis, everyone will lose interest in Delve.

The only real benefit I see from adding 20k plasm to WR is to help end game players and those who already have Kis and delve gear only earn their items faster.

Kind of like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer concept.

At least that's how I'd see it.

I just wanted to get everything in front of me so I could respond easily.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Everyone would be impacted on a different level. High end players may enjoy having the ease of playing WR and earning Plasm at the same time, therefore no reason to go back and join plasm groups, help casuals or non casuals earn plasm for their gear and upgrades. That would subtract a good portion of players to do delve because they'd do WR instead.

Casuals, non casuals, players with multiple accounts, different jobs won't be able to find enough people to do delve groups because most people would do WR instead. Therefore those who do need gear and upgrades would have no choice but to join WR. Which means showing up gimp, undergeared to Hurkan, Yumcax will make these events even more laggy, more difficult for everyone who are there to play with proper gear.

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Also, what you’re saying is that people would do Wildskeeper instead of Delve. 20k plasm was an example. I don’t actually think SE would give us that much plasm. But think about a good endgame player. Unless you were after Wildskeeper drops specifically, you would never do that for the plasm. Delve is easy enough that you could make more plasm per hour with a shorter time commitment by doing NMs within the fracture.

You’re saying casuals would have a hard time finding delve groups for plasm. However, this situation would be preferable to the existing, because casuals either have the option of 3-5k plasm per hour or nothing. At least this would allow them to build up some plasm.

Aside from that, it’s not a choice to do either Delve or Wildskeeper. You do Wildskeeper if there’s a shout you want to join, and Delve at any other time.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Players that don't have any Delve gear or upgrades won't be able to do much to contribute to the fight so most likely will either die, be in the way, MPK other or make the event worse off than it is already.

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You have it backwards. You realize that Delve is the endgame and Wildskeeper is just a supplement right?

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Originally Posted by Daemon

End games, Casuals that have enough Delve gear/upgrades that make Gil selling off Airelixers would compete with more people because as more plasm is available, more people will flood the auction house with more Airelixers making it less valuable.

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Don’t worry, that’s already happened.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

The only real benefit I see from adding 20k plasm to WR is to help end game players and those who already have Kis and delve gear only earn their items faster.

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It really is only a minor benefit to endgamers. Maybe just enough to make a Wildskeeper run not a complete and utter waste of time. The major benefit is for casual players.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Also, what you’re saying is that people would do Wildskeeper instead of Delve. 20k plasm was an example. I don’t actually think SE would give us that much plasm. But think about a good endgame player. Unless you were after Wildskeeper drops specifically, you would never do that for the plasm. Delve is easy enough that you could make more plasm per hour with a shorter time commitment by doing NMs within the fracture.

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Then that changes the entire argument. 20k plasm each person Is the reason I don't agree. Your statements are becoming confusing when you said:

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Originally Posted by detlef

Are you really worried that adding plasm to Wildskeeper would kill Delve? People will still do Delve. Adding plasm to Wildskeeper is just another way for casuals to earn plasm without having to deal with the various hurdles of joining a Delve group.

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Then again you already stated how others already obtain other ways to earn plasm

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Originally Posted by detlef

But also, those good players that can earn that much plasm are much more likely to target the mega boss for 70k plasm than settle for unpredictable trash mob farming.

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Surely there has to be other rewards to implement than plasm to WR. I just don't agree that plasm should be it. 70k plasm is a valuable reward from a Megaboss. Adding it to Wildskeeper reives as a reward will make it less valuable in Delve. What's the point if you have nothing else to buy/upgrade? You are only asking to speed up this process.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You’re saying casuals would have a hard time finding delve groups for plasm. However, this situation would be preferable to the existing, because casuals either have the option of 3-5k plasm per hour or nothing. At least this would allow them to build up some plasm.

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If it requires good player to earn 70k plasm targeting a Megaboss, then how much does a casual player earn if they cannot win? And showing up to Hurkan and Yumcax is a reason to play for plasm if they cannot even win Nakuuls is a better option? To me I still think this situation will be made for high end player than casuals. If casuals do not have the proper gear to win a Megaboss, then what's to say they will be properly geared for Nakuul?

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Originally Posted by detlef

Aside from that, it’s not a choice to do either Delve or Wildskeeper. You do Wildskeeper if there’s a shout you want to join, and Delve at any other time.

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Given that you have made comments with the rest of the people that it takes so much time to get a party and kill Nakuuls. How does that help casuals earn their gear if time is more spent doing Nakuuls? There is only so many people to do events. I'm sure if people knew they could get plasm while doing WR. We all would never go back to farm plasm again. I know I wouldn't. Why join 18 man alliance when I can earn it WR instead? But my disagreement is not based on what I want easier. It's based on what would happen to everyone else on the server?

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Originally Posted by detlef

You have it backwards. You realize that Delve is the endgame and Wildskeeper is just a supplement right?

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Plasm farming is harder than Yumcax? Hurkan? Or any other Nakuul. Maybe mega bosses are end game but certain progressions of Delve doesn't necessarily mean its the very end game. I assumed different parts of the game have different tiers. Different things to do.

If its just a supplement then I think it should be left as a supplement. Making it easier to skip one part of the game is what this idea sounds like. I still join Delve plasm groups. Restricted to 18 players. Team work is how we earn 9k.

As much as I want something made easier and convenient. I'd rather not have more reasons to complete my goals faster only to be left with nothing else to do.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Don’t worry, that’s already happened.

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If so does that mean to go ahead and kill it off? So 10k stacks or less since its already dropped to 700k for 12 Airelixers.

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Originally Posted by detlef

It really is only a minor benefit to endgamers. Maybe just enough to make a Wildskeeper run not a complete and utter waste of time. The major benefit is for casual players.

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Not everyone thinks its a waste of time. But then again I don't have in my mind disappointment for not getting one of the best rare. I just enojoyed it because all of my friends were there. Some people I haven't seen in awhile too. Got to spend time with DJ doing skirmish and to me that was much more valuable.

What I want to know is why suggest Plasm as a reward to Wildskeeper Rieves if WR is not Delve? SE already gives us Bayld. Shards all over the land are Delve boss pops but what does Nakuul have anything to do with Delve?

To me sounds like please add Assault points to NNI on top of token rewards.

Which is why I said I think Delve should be Delve and Wildskeeper Reives should be Rieves.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

What I want to know is why suggest Plasm as a reward to Wildskeeper Rieves if WR is not Delve? SE already gives us Bayld. Shards all over the land are Delve boss pops but what does Nakuul have anything to do with Delve?

To me sounds like please add Assault points to NNI on top of token rewards.

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What I want to know is why bayld and plasm aren't the same thing. Why do we need all these crappy forms of alternate currency? I don't want bit coins, microsoft points, paypal discounts and gift certificates in my game. I have those annoyances in RL already.

The price of airlixers is dropping because the number of people who have them has outweighed the number of people who need them. A clever developer would calculate the correct amount of plasm to inject into the system so that most people still want to use it for gear and a few use it as a secondary market to make gil. Right now, the people who can earn airlixer +2s are doing so far faster than everyone else can earn gear to spend them on.

Right now, there are a few people who have access to a crap load of plasm and nothing to spend it on but airlixers and a crap load of people who have no delve gear to use airlixers on. This causes people who have airlixers to cut prices in an effort to sell them before they totally tank. That needs to be balanced out or airlixers will eventually end up at 5k next to kabobs in bazaars because like kabobs, there will eventually be something better to spend the gil on.

To be honest, I'm not sure why anybody would care if they do. It's not like every airlixer holds a tiny locket with a picture of my dead grandma smiling in a field of poppys or something. Why the sentimental value on such a new disposable item? Just because the people who pride themselves in being able to make mad loot in this game would be inconvenienced by having to find a new way to make mad loot? If you let them tell it, they would look forward to the challenge.

That brings us to shanks et al.

Why is this in the discussion? Are we really comparing an item that you get just for standing in jeuno all day while you're at work to a currency that you have to participate in several annoying events for upwards of 5 hours a piece to get? why? Of course the one that offers you a 1% chance at an item is worth less than airlixer +2s. No one can prove that they have ever won anything because they had a D ring. The damage - from magic evasion on bald gear is probably worth more. Not only that, but the drop rate is so crap that only die hards will even have the patience to care if they have that item. Most people would almost pay you to take the headache of standing in line to pop one.