A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

Exactly. This is poor game design, knowing that anything not a MNK RNG PLD won't stand a chance.

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Telling someone to level another job doesn't cut it, because all the favored jobs require top-notch gear that takes time to obtain. People are already blowing through endgame content, and anyone that didn't already have the popular 6 jobs ready are left in the dust.

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and never forget, those jobs are just the flavor of the month until SE's next battle system roll-out. in case you don't remember it wasn't that long ago that the only way someone's Pld for example was getting a party invite was out of pity and even then only if you were sleeping with the player real life-and he still better have an Aegis AND an Ochain already. I'm actually surprised that some of the mages that don't start SCH are getting some occasional party love-unless you needed to hit a proc they've mostly been ignored since pre-ToAU meri-pos.

@Wow, as to other DDs, yes, they can function, but the term you are looking for is "MP sponge". other DD types can wipe your healers out in a big hurry, both of MP and life if they have to cure bomb. that's the survivability argument. and gear isn't the answer. SE could make the sweetest DEF+ gear you ever saw for all those jobs and all the players will completely ignore it, they only care about the DPS parser. and fixing the job's damage won't fix the problem, they'll still take the DPS+ gear over the DEF+ because they can get DPS even higher. Honestly, outside soloing rare is the player that thinks about survival in their build at all, especially with the reduced XP loss and the quick regain these days.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

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Have to agree, otherwise ppl can say that about anything.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

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I have never played WoW or FFXIV. This is my first and only MMO so I don't have anything to compare this to. Therefore, I don't understand your anger with us in what has been 20 odd pages of mostly positive support. I don't understand what is so wrong about having more than 5 or 6 jobs be viable.
I don't mind challenge. I just want to PLAY THE GAME I PAY FOR, and not feel like I wasted 30 bucks on the SoA expansion because of job exclusivity and Valefor being a f***g dead server.
More eloquent posters than myself have pointed out the unlikelyhood of becoming overpowered due to job mechanics/limitations. I believe someone also pointed out there is no challenge in throwing MNKs and RNGs at everything anyway.
Explain the logic of SE giving pet jobs level 117-119 items, with no content to really use them in that sparks gear or Wildskeeper gear wouldn't perform just as well. (not counting Upukirex, since DRG does get invited as a DD from time to time)

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

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Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy. People have been using the outdated dogma of believing that any vast change in FFXI's mmo mechanics will lead to FFXI becoming the equivalent of WoW. I think that mantra is a bit overused and what you would call a "effort to discredit one's opinion" because anytime anyone wants to make the game better, someone yells 'World of Warcraft' and suddenly that opinion is discredited. All you have given us is accusations that the implementation of our suggestions will lead to the downfall of the game, and your only evidence is an analogy to WoW. The reason why your opinion was discredited was not because it was a minority opinion in this thread, but simply because you have given no one any substantial evidence of how our suggestions could even lead FFXI on the road to WoW. When people like you pop up in this thread and simply say things like "No, I believe pet jobs should stay the way they are," you're not contributing anything to this thread other than wasting 30 seconds of someone's life. The point of this thread isn't to pick a side: [Pet buffs and cures] vs. [no pet buffs and cures] or [To fix] vs. [not to fix]. The point is to come up with a solution through compromise. Everybody who actually plays a pet job class as their main class agrees that there is a problem with pet jobs in group content. We're not here to debate whether or not pet classes need to be fixed but rather trying to find a reasonable and balanced solution because it has already been established that pet jobs need some sort of revisions. So if you have nothing more to contribute to this thread other then "Pet jobs are fine the way they are," then you're wasting your time and our time.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Again with the minority argument. I swear that's the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit ones opinion or stated facts. But you know what, I'm not wasting my key strokes. Go ahead SE, listen to these whiners and complainers it's not like you'll create a WoW clone in hopes of appeasing them.

*looks at FFXIV ARR*

Too Late.

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As if FFXI hasnt move allready a large amount into WoW directions with the ilvl system and various other stuff ¬.¬ (which isnt per say bad)

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy. People have been using the outdated dogma of believing that any vast change in FFXI's mmo mechanics will lead to FFXI becoming the equivalent of WoW. I think that mantra is a bit overused and what you would call a "effort to discredit one's opinion" because anytime anyone wants to make the game better, someone yells 'World of Warcraft' and suddenly that opinion is discredited. All you have given us is accusations that the implementation of our suggestions will lead to the downfall of the game, and your only evidence is an analogy to WoW. The reason why your opinion was discredited was not because it was a minority opinion in this thread, but simply because you have given no one any substantial evidence of how our suggestions could even lead FFXI on the road to WoW. When people like you pop up in this thread and simply say things like "No, I believe pet jobs should stay the way they are," you're not contributing anything to this thread other than wasting 30 seconds of someone's life. The point of this thread isn't to pick a side: [Pet buffs and cures] vs. [no pet buffs and cures] or [To fix] vs. [not to fix]. The point is to come up with a solution through compromise. Everybody who actually plays a pet job class as their main class agrees that there is a problem with pet jobs in group content. We're not here to debate whether or not pet classes need to be fixed but rather trying to find a reasonable and balanced solution because it has already been established that pet jobs need some sort of revisions. So if you have nothing more to contribute to this thread other then "Pet jobs are fine the way they are," then you're wasting your time and our time.

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That is the point; you stated that bst are the minority; hence their opinions do not matter. I believe Krystal was referring to shutting down/brushing off individual's opinions by stating that they are the minority. For instance; i do not agree that buffing pets with attack and acc would overpower them; however, cures would = no pet food. I did not tune out Krystal's argument because ppl feel she is the minority.

The minority argument is sort of a cop-out; I believe you stated that bst were the minority. I will hear out anyone whom opinions differ from my own; I was even convinced that these buffs will not overpower pets based on the comments posted in this thread.

Yet, she has yet to state why pet jobs are fine as they are and thus don't need a big hand up just to be more productive in a party or alliance situation except that it will be the one thing that will kill the game. Along with the game becoming more WoW like. Except that both of the DD that regularly get asked to parties and alliance stuff are going to have massive butthurt because omg someone might think about bringing a pet job for something more than angon or to use AF on something.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Yet, she has yet to state why pet jobs are fine as they are and thus don't need a big hand up just to be more productive in a party or alliance situation except that it will be the one thing that will kill the game. Along with the game becoming more WoW like. Except that both of the DD that regularly get asked to parties and alliance stuff are going to have massive butthurt because omg someone might think about bringing a pet job for something more than angon or to use AF on something.

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zomg blasphemy people actually haveing to put effort into MNK to compete with other DDs!!! Mindblowing!!!! (/sarcasmoff)

Thats how it should be, you have to earn your place in a pt, not get it for granted just because your Job has 3923029 better abilitys/ws etc then others.

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Originally Posted by WoW

I referenced 14; the two tank jobs can tank, all the dps can dps. for instance, my free company would say, "Any dd needs ampapor keep?" XIV simplified the job system, it can be done. However, the way XI's job systems is currently constructed, they may need to make certain tanks shine on various hard level content, because that is how they designed the game; cannot get past that. They can make each job specialize at a specific fight, but not every fight. For instance, NIN shines on a very hard boss, while pld shines on another, ditto for run. Spread these battles across relevant content to enforce equal job playability. As it pertains to dd, allow them to possess equal dd capabilities; akin to 14. They may have to tools to scale and balance this. For instance, give bst a pet with berserk to make up for the lack of offensive JAs.

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Excluding RUN, PLD & NIN kinda have this setup right now, where PLD can tank Delve bosses and NIN can tank AAs, the thing is there's nothing in this game PLD can't tank right now and NIN can that I'm aware of. Creating that balance would be fine, but you'd have to make it a mob that is completely outside of what we see from SE today and so strong that 1 hit would be either so deadly it nearly kills you, or it flat out 1 shots you, because anything less and a PLD will be able to tank it all the same. The AoE spell spam would have to completely stop, the AoE normal moves would have to be done away with, the TP moves that ignore or rip through shadows effortlessly would need to be stopped or at least massively slowed down. It's hard to come up with something not insanely stupidly overpowered that PLD can't tank, but NIN can, simply because PLD is a godly tank of their own undoing that has everything besides hate tools at it's disposal, and that brings me to the next reply...

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Edit: The job play mechanics enforce specialization; for instance, not every tank job can be invited to take on a particular boss; that has been the case since XI was born. Now; if they got rid of these specializations and allowed nin and rune to mitigate physical damage akin to a pld; ochain plds would cry foul, now we opened up another can of worms especially if the damage reduction does not require the run or nin to possess a Relic or emp.

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PLDs would have no right to complain, I admit if it were to easy to complain maybe there's a leg to stand on, but right now RUN has no use really because you're looking at a job that is unable to prevent physical damage enough to survive between spells. If you compare that to the fact PLDs have easy access to Aegis, the shield which made RUN sound like a joke of an idea and to a good extent still does, giving RUN the ability to mitigate 50% of their damage taken from physical attacks seems like a non-issue to me, I mean they're still getting hit fairly hard, they just don't royally suck anymore.

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DDs are quite simple to balance compared to tanks. A dds primary job is to deal damage (And survive while doing it for the nitpickers, lol); ok, simple enough, allow each job access to a massive damage boost akin to the top tier dd jobs. Tanks are a bit tricky, because their specializations are rather unique compared to dds. Nins are evasion masters, plds are physical damage reduction, while run are supposedly magic damage reduction. DDs..well...they dd; it does not matter how they do it, so long as they put out a massive amount of damage. Now, giving a run the blocking capabilities of a pld could open up a new problem/complaining.....allowing bst to put out similar damage to a war would not matter much; because a war will still get the job done; only difference is, a bst can as well; hence invite either or.

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This I agree with.

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Back on topic to pet jobs, bst in particular; just make the jug pets close the gap between us and other top dds; that is all. I mean, if they have to add better pets, boost ready moves again, give pets JAs, or what ever they choose to do.

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I think another issue that needs to be looked at for all pet jobs, or all jobs in general, is still the large issue of JA delay. Fix BST pets, Automatons, and so on however you wish but when the master is standing there a full 2 seconds doing nothing because he had to throw a treat to his pet, call a new one, or tell it to stop being stupid and use it's TP, it's starting to slow the master's DMG down too and that's a bother as well. One of the main things keeping PUP down last I knew was the JA delay, all those Maneuvers being spammed constantly, same with DNC & it's steps, getting rid of that delay in the middle of every action would go a long way in helping the jobs that not only need use their JAs for themselves but keep an eye and use abilities for their pets who need so much attention. Basically, in my opinion we should add JA delay to that list as well.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Also, you guys are kind of nitpicking with the post, lol. We all know rng type jobs have s safer distance compared to other jobs; even when there were not the number one choice. However, i ask you, what should they do about rng distance advantage? I am fine with it personally; i see other jobs get into delve parties etc; i was strictly talking about dd capabilities. If it is as bad as this, idk what to tell non-rangers, lol. From what ive seen, just heal them, unless they get one-shotted by something. I have seen dds handle endgame crap fine.

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I don't mean to be nitpicking it, but really if you do any of the new Delves from what I've seen melees are getting destroyed, the same thing goes with the Merit Point fights, melees get absolutely crushed by their DMG. The only way melees really can take on AAs right now is through shadows and that's not a perfect solution for many reasons and the most important of which is that some TP moves either wipe all shadows or completely ignore them. If anything I would say make it easier to survive as a front line job, increase HP, increase DEF, decrease DMG, something, I mean right now the reason I see RNG as prefered over other jobs isn't because it's a better DD in all of these different instances necessarily but it's because that's the 1 job that doesn't have to be up close to do it's job and can now days get around it's hate issue fairly easily.

Unless melees can start to survive on the front lines though it won't matter how much damage they're popping out, and I'll be honest, for now there's not a whole lot that can be done, doing AAs on Very Hard with melees easily results in a number of 1 shots from WSs, especially MR who spams Cloudsplitter which ignores shadows outright. I've yet to do Tenzen on VD but I know his SC ignores shadows and he can spam it over, and over, and over again, which means it's either Scherzo or death.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I think another issue that needs to be looked at for all pet jobs, or all jobs in general, is still the large issue of JA delay. Fix BST pets, Automatons, and so on however you wish but when the master is standing there a full 2 seconds doing nothing because he had to throw a treat to his pet, call a new one, or tell it to stop being stupid and use it's TP, it's starting to slow the master's DMG down too and that's a bother as well. One of the main things keeping PUP down last I knew was the JA delay, all those Maneuvers being spammed constantly, same with DNC & it's steps, getting rid of that delay in the middle of every action would go a long way in helping the jobs that not only need use their JAs for themselves but keep an eye and use abilities for their pets who need so much attention. Basically, in my opinion we should add JA delay to that list as well.

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Or perhaps a simple fix would be to extend the duration of said JAs - maneuvers, steps, Angon, etc. then we don't have to constantly spam the JA during dps time. I was disappointed that so far the reforge sets don't offer duration boosts, maybe reforged Empyrean could have that? Or with the new job points system? (there better be more ways to get JPs on unwanted jobs though ...)
I think I did include the issue of JA delay in my list in an earlier post but no harm reiterating that point.

I agree also that anything not a PLD or a job that can attack from a distance is shit out of luck right now. In cases like that, I wish my Sharpshot buddy could also be one of those slots! :p But really, aren't pets meant to throw at things while the master stands back? It's a shame NONE of them are useful for the new content.

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Originally Posted by WoW

That is the point; you stated that bst are the minority; hence their opinions do not matter. I believe Krystal was referring to shutting down/brushing off individual's opinions by stating that they are the minority. For instance; i do not agree that buffing pets with attack and acc would overpower them; however, cures would = no pet food. I did not tune out Krystal's argument because ppl feel she is the minority.

The minority argument is sort of a cop-out; I believe you stated that bst were the minority. I will hear out anyone whom opinions differ from my own; I was even convinced that these buffs will not overpower pets based on the comments posted in this thread.

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This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

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I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Actually I find it a bit funny that you would say that the ultimate fallback in an effort to discredit one's opinion or stated fact is by calling it the minority's opinion. Pet jobs have been the minority class in Final Fantasy XI since their existence, and every time the pet job community attempts to voice their opinion, we're always shut down by the game developers because they fear upsetting the majority by disrupting the job class hierarchy.

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I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Have to agree, otherwise ppl can say that about anything.

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Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.




I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.



I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.



Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

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This is what you are saying now, lol, however, your original post stated, "Cool opinion" akin to me telling someone "Cool story bro". If this was not your intentions, then why bring up the fact that she is the minority? Or use sarcasm pertaining to her comments (Cool opinion, you clearly disagreed with her opinion). You could have just articulated your sentiments like the second paragraph. You have to admit, the cool opinion,was a bit sarcastic; it was also followed by you stating that she is in the minority. I am not twisting your words; you are just back tracking your comments; i mean, this is not personal, no harm, no foul; I even changed my stance upon hearing the comments in this thread, I can admit to something I did.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

This is definitely a classic example of someone's words being twisted. If you haven't been paying attention, I have been advocating all pet classes getting boosts in all of my arguments. Honestly, I was not even using my reference of Krystal as a minority opinion as a reason for discrediting her opinion. What discredited her opinion was the fact that she gave no substantial evidence as to how our suggestion of allowing pets to be buffed and cured would lead to the games demise.




I was only pointing out the fact that she's one of the few crazy people who are fine with how pet jobs are today, and that she most likely believes that because she doesn't play a pet job as her main class. On the other hand, the closest thing I had said to Beastmaster being a minority was that pet jobs are a minority as a whole in comparison to popular classes like Monk, Bard, Corsair, etc. which makes it difficult for pet jobs to get anything implemented in their favor.



I think you used some sort of transitive property after only reading the bolded part of my comment towards Krystal. You thought that if I used Krystal being a minority to void her opinion then I was basically doing the same to Beastmaster's opinions because they are also considered a minority. However when I said pet jobs have been considered the minority class, it was to point out that people have been using the minority argument to discredit pet jobs receiving any substantial revisions. It was also meant to point out the fact that Krystal is ironically siding with the majority that have been dismantling pet jobs' opinions using the argument that pet classes are only a minority of FFXI players.



Your argument towards me is clearly foul play because no where had I stated, verbatim, that "Beastmasters are a minority" and that I agree that this also made their opinions invalid. I called Krystal the minority opinion because she is among the few people who actually believe that pet jobs are "Fine just the way they are" and it had nothing to do with Beastmaster. It's actually a little sad that you guys picked out the least monumental thing I had said in my argument against Krystal as a way to ironically discredit my opinion. I'm also surprised that you're siding with someone who is saying that they want to see Beastmaster stay the same, but you're entitled to your own opinions. Next time actually read my argument because what you just said I said was obviously not what I said.

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I am an objective individual (This does not fly in the pets threads though, lol); for instance, allowing pets to be cured would deem pet food useless; I can agree with her sentiments, to an extent. What is wrong with displaying tolerance, understanding, and reason? I am not going to throw out objectivity because I am a 99 bst, lol.

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Originally Posted by WoW

allowing pets to be cured would deem pet food useless

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Well, this is dependent on how they'd do it. Can pets be AoE cured as well? If not that severely helps pet food have a use since WHMs will often be too focused on healing to single target cure pets. Solo food would have a massive use too, such as Dyna, Salvage, and the like. I'm not saying you're wrong but admittedly it depends on a few things and food wouldn't be useless, just not as necessary as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

Or perhaps a simple fix would be to extend the duration of said JAs - maneuvers, steps, Angon, etc. then we don't have to constantly spam the JA during dps time. I was disappointed that so far the reforge sets don't offer duration boosts, maybe reforged Empyrean could have that? Or with the new job points system? (there better be more ways to get JPs on unwanted jobs though ...)
I think I did include the issue of JA delay in my list in an earlier post but no harm reiterating that point.

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Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WoW

This is what you are saying now, lol, however, your original post stated, "Cool opinion" akin to me telling someone "Cool story bro". If this was not your intentions, then why bring up the fact that she is the minority? Or use sarcasm pertaining to her comments (Cool opinion, you clearly disagreed with her opinion). You could have just articulated your sentiments like the second paragraph. You have to admit, the cool opinion,was a bit sarcastic; it was also followed by you stating that she is in the minority. I am not twisting your words; you are just back tracking your comments; i mean, this is not personal, no harm, no foul; I even changed my stance upon hearing the comments in this thread, I can admit to something I did.

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Oh I do admit that my entire comment towards her had a sarcastic overtone. I mean did you miss the fact that I called her a dumbass? I don't think that I was being subtle about my intentions towards her. When I said cool opinion, I meant it to be a red flag that I didn't agree with her at all. If the only thing you can pull out of my comment towards Krystal is the fact that I called her a minority in this thread, then you're clearly missing the point of my argument because that was only the epidermis. I'm not really interested in bickering about technicalities but if you'd like to, we can do this all day. However, Krystal represents a faction of people who like to poke holes in comments using the common 'World of Warcraft' rhetoric, and personally I'm not ok with that. I think if she wants to make a valid point, then she needs to use real examples and real numbers. This thread is a serious issue that needs serious attention, and people like Krystal find pleasure in dressing up the people who are actually concerned about this topic as complainers and whiners in hopes to demoralize the subject. This thread wouldn't have more that 20 pages of comments if people didn't find a serious need to revamp pet classes as a whole, and the hell if I'm going to watch our opinions get cock blocked because one little princess is afraid of us becoming just another MMO. So if I have to be the bad guy and say it how it is, then so be it. Most of the pet community players want to be able to play whatever job they want in any content and want to be on par with all the other classes, and honestly I don't think that's too much to ask for.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Well, this is dependent on how they'd do it. Can pets be AoE cured as well? If not that severely helps pet food have a use since WHMs will often be too focused on healing to single target cure pets. Solo food would have a massive use too, such as Dyna, Salvage, and the like. I'm not saying you're wrong but admittedly it depends on a few things and food wouldn't be useless, just not as necessary as it is now.

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Pet food already has uses; also, a cure is a cure, AOE or single. It makes no sense to exclude aoe; if you are going to cure the pets then allow them to be cured by single or aoe.

I will say this though, you do have a point, pet may food may not become obsolete, i mean, why cure a pet when they have food that can heal for large amounts? Good point. curing pets may be unnecessary imo; why waste mp on a pet whom can be cured with food and dawns? Personally, I bring dawns and a plethora of pet food to battle and my pet is near indestructible on things that do not one-shot him. Also, not sure if whms would welcome the added strain of healing a pet that already has healing capabilities. Good point.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Oh I do admit that my entire comment towards her had a sarcastic overtone. I mean did you miss the fact that I called her a dumbass? I don't think that I was being subtle about my intentions towards her. When I said cool opinion, I meant it to be a red flag that I didn't agree with her at all. If the only thing you can pull out of my comment towards Krystal is the fact that I called her a minority in this thread, then you're clearly missing the point of my argument because that was only the epidermis. I'm not really interested in bickering about technicalities but if you'd like to, we can do this all day. However, Krystal represents a faction of people who like to poke holes in comments using the common 'World of Warcraft' rhetoric, and personally I'm not ok with that. I think if she wants to make a valid point, then she needs to use real examples and real numbers. This thread is a serious issue that needs serious attention, and people like Krystal find pleasure in dressing up the people who are actually concerned about this topic as complainers and whiners in hopes to demoralize the subject. This thread wouldn't have more that 20 pages of comments if people didn't find a serious need to revamp pet classes as a whole, and the hell if I'm going to watch our opinions get cock blocked because one little princess is afraid of us becoming just another MMO. So if I have to be the bad guy and say it how it is, then so be it. Most of the pet community players want to be able to play whatever job they want in any content and want to be on par with all the other classes, and honestly I don't think that's too much to ask for.

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You already admitted to your intentions in the post; that is all I was saying, no need to discuss this any further

Edit: Vote up for being honest.

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

I never said that Terri didn't have the right to post in this forum, I simply asked for her to take her biased opinions elsewhere. He or she has the right to say no if he or she pleases.



My opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. Anyone who reads what I have to say can decide for themselves if they agree with them or not, but I'm not holding a knife to anyone's throat and saying that my opinions are absolute. I respect everyone's opinion here, and I'm willing to reconsider my own if the person is convincing enough, but if people have the right to make half thought remarks that are clearly bias and made out to irritate everyone rather than give constructive input, then I also have the right to give my opinion, although in may be a bit blunt. Here is a clear example of why I do what I do:



I mean come on. Krystal is clearly insulting everyone by saying that we're the reason why the game is the way it is. People like this start the cat fight first, so I should have the right to return fire by calling him or her a dumb-ass.



Again. Seriously? Like really seriously? Cool opinion, but I'm pretty sure she's a minority in this argument. Anyone who is content with pet jobs the way they are are simply content because they don't play pet jobs as a main class. For us who actually take the pet job class seriously, it's easy to realize that pet jobs are not quote on quote "fine the way they are".

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

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Imo, the job point system is the perfect opportunity for them to boost pet jobs. For instance, a merit that increases ready move dmg or pet critical hit rate. I mean, there are a plethora of possibilities; even give pets a JA or something. I cannot speak on other jobs, I am only a bst, lol.

Customisable automaton clothing - the time is now!

:P

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Customisable automaton clothing - the time is now! :P

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Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also. Unfortunately though, I don't think there should be any additional Automatons added until they revamp the current ones. Spiritreaver (BLM) is complete outdated and Harlequin died a long time ago and could be easily made into a useful Automaton. I think until they make manual magic execution, which they already mentioned they would do like 2-3 years ago, our BLM automaton will always be terrible. [Read the Bold]

*This is a post that was in the Puppetmaster forums some time ago

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,
Sorry for the delay, but here is some information from the development team in regards to your feedback!

The maneuver duration, recast time, and overload are all balanced very subtly; through maneuvers, the automaton’s operability, as well as the frame and attachments, are largely affected. Due to this, we plan to create balance by adding and adjusting attachments and abilities without changing the operations of the base maneuvers.

In regards to abilities, we are making adjustments based on the original execution timing, however, for weapon skills we are looking into making it possible to select the execution timing manually. For magic, we believe the top priority is the revamping of recast times, so once we finalize those adjustments we plan on looking into being able to select the timing for that, as well.

We understand that there are times this is inconvenient for ranged/mage frames. We will look into increasing the distance for using Deploy.

With the current system, Scanner will detect resist rates, so by using a Scanner it should make it so your automaton does not cast this.
However, if there is even a small chance that the monster uses magic, the automaton will start to cast silence. The chance of there being a bug related to this isn’t impossible, so we will be checking on this.

Also, if you have any feedback such as “I don’t want silence to be cast on enemies that are highly resistant to silence” (ex: Make it so it doesn’t cast silence when the resist rate is over 60%) please make sure to let us know.

We are looking into changing the automaton behavior. Since this is something that we have received a lot of feedback about we will be looking into it, but since the workings of the automaton logic are so complex it will take some time.

We understand how you feel and are looking into separating the recast timers.

While we would like to do something for this, we would first need to perform a lot of work to revamp the user interface, so this will be difficult to accomplish right away. Sorry

We plan on revamping attachment stats, so there is a possibility that we make it so that there is no consumption of maneuvers. This doesn’t mean that we will be adjusting every attachment for this, but we will be looking at each one separately. If you have any feedback please let us know!

We will be performing adjustments on attachments that need adjusting as necessary.

Planning to implement this in the form of an attachment.

We are thinking about making adjustments in the form of attachments, not on the automaton or puppetmaster side. For example, how does implementing Strobe II sound?

Currently, we are thinking more in the direction of implementing superior lubricant, such as Lubricant +3, instead of directly increasing the physical resistance.

It doesn’t crit because it is recognized as a special ability. We are looking into it.

First we will be revamping attachments that need adjustments. After that we will take a look at the balance and look into this.

We definitely understand. Since automatons are different than player characters, and it is difficult to adjust the positioning of the automaton, we are looking into easing up or even eliminating the distance factor.

We would like to look into new automaton WS ideas, however, since you can recover MP through Deactivate/Activate and by using the Mana Converter, we think it would be better to look at different effects.

The damage is calculated as a special WS, however, we will be looking into making this easier to use while making use of its special properties since we hear a lot of people saying it keeps doing zero damage…

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On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Increased duration helps some, but not all jobs. Sure, DNC & PUP benefit, but what of DRG & BST for instance? We have to spam reward and completely avoid using breaths when possible because it's such a DPS loss to do so, things like this just can't be done with duration.

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For DRG, I was thinking along the lines of Angon. It seems to have a long animation during which I am not doing any damage. And the effect lasts what, a little over a minute? While the recast is 3 minutes. With so much chat spam in endgame, I can't keep track of it. If I manage to remember to re-apply it, I'm fumbling around in my menu checking the recast while being battered around by the monster. (people bitching about lack of challenge should play on a console ...)
And of course there's also re-applying Spirit Link and Steady Wing, not that the wyvern stays alive long enough. lol
On the other hand, Smiting Breath is useless so I never waste time on that JA.

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Originally Posted by Shinron-PUP

Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also.

On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

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Lol, a geo or brd automaton would be pretty sweet/useful.

However, I cannot stress the bolded part enough; as it pertains to bst. I mean, the possibilities are out there, why not implement them? For instance; bst are dd, correct? Implementing the best dd pets would be the logical thing to do. Just look at the last batch of pets, there is not a solid dd out of the whole group (The bird looks cool though, lol). Why do they keep adding these mandies and frogs? Are scorpions really difficult to implement? They have been in the game since day one. Also, why do they keep removing useful/beneficial special abilities? I even created a thread about this in the bst job discussion. Why would you release some side-content with buffed monsters and all of their beneficial special abilities intact, but neglect a main job that has been in the game since day one? I doubt it would get a reply, I mean, if they wanted a scorpion jug in-game, it would have happened by now; somewhere between the plethora of mandies/vanity frogs and the addition of uncharmable mobs as jugs.

I am surprised more bst have not been questioning this. I mean, if they add a stripped jug with crappy ready moves, would the food buff even matter? How? Even REM dds need their ws to be effective. Ruinator with no JA buffs is strong, but not strong enough to compensate for our jug's crappy moves and the lack of offensive JAs. Our jugs should be used to put us on even ground with other dds; that is not possible if they are stripped down. This may come off as anger towards SE, but I am not angry, lol (it is only a game). I just want to know why, that is all; why not add a scorpion with all of their moves intact? Why are abilities stripped from pets? Bst needs better pets or a significant ready move dmg boost through job points.

The way I see it is, if mobs can unleash an AoE that hits everyone in the party including pets, why can't white mages hit a Wyvern or Automaton with a Curaga which hits all players? Just set the flag for AoE heals to include pets.

It would be balanced.

If AoE damage can hit pets why can't(shouldn't) AoE heals hit pets too?

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Originally Posted by Shinron-PUP

Like can we really lol? Beyond that, new pets would be nice. Bard Automaton is feasible now that they have been creating the Bard AI for trust NPCs. Even a Geomancer Automaton would be pretty interesting also. All attachment effects on the Automaton could be made into a Aura when that specific maneuver is up. BST could really use some better pets also. Unfortunately though, I don't think there should be any additional Automatons added until they revamp the current ones. Spiritreaver (BLM) is complete outdated and Harlequin died a long time ago and could be easily made into a useful Automaton. I think until they make manual magic execution, which they already mentioned they would do like 2-3 years ago, our BLM automaton will always be terrible. [Read the Bold]

*This is a post that was in the Puppetmaster forums some time ago



On a more realistic note, however, I think it's time that Automaton Attachments started being Macroable now. It takes way too much time to switch between pets which could easily be solved with either a auto-save set that we could choose from, or a way to macro in the attachments like equipment. The idea has already been shot down before, but I don't believe that such things are out of reach. Extrapolating even more, all pet jobs need similar touch ups. People have been making Quality of Life threads, and I think its time that we get a Quality of life thread for pet jobs. JA delays, long recast timers, expensive items such as pet foods, jugs, and Mulsims, are only a few examples of unnecessary suffrage that pet jobs face that could easily be fixed.

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lets fix first what the real problem is before adding anything new to the table: All pet jobs, pets takeing dmg, pets recieving proper buffs form brd/cor/geo etc.

in other words BARANCU!!!

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Originally Posted by Damane

lets fix first what the real problem is before adding anything new to the table: All pet jobs, pets takeing dmg, pets recieving proper buffs form brd/cor/geo etc.

in other words BARANCU!!!

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Yeah I definitely agree that survivability, pet jobs receiving proper buffs, better pet healing mechanics, and pet accuracy take precedence over any further additions, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to talk about other topics that also impact pet classes in this thread. Maybe it'll give the developers an idea of other considerations that need to be made when revamping pets and pet classes.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

The way I see it is, if mobs can unleash an AoE that hits everyone in the party including pets, why can't white mages hit a Wyvern or Automaton with a Curaga which hits all players? Just set the flag for AoE heals to include pets.

It would be balanced.

If AoE damage can hit pets why can't(shouldn't) AoE heals hit pets too?

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I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

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Good point; personally, I never thought "Man, my pet could really use some whm cures," dawns and pet food are plenty for me personally. If the pet gets one-shotted, there is not much you can do about that cure wise, lol. Why waste mp on something that can be cured by more efficient (Broken) means. The only thing that is stopping healing bst pets as they are currently constructed is one-shots and $$$/entitlement. I mean, why would mages heal someone whom should have come prepared in the first place? I can see it now, (DD) "Why did you heal the pet?" (Me) "Because he was gonna die" (DD) "Pet food, do you need it?" Pet food cost money, but farming is free^^ This new pet food better be free or there is going to be a problem in the pet community. Gonna be an interesting few weeks to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I'm not saying that AOE cures including pets would be a bad idea. But from a logic perspective, automatons use special oils to repair damage to their mechanisms, bst pets use special foods to give their pets energy to recover.
As I understand the cure system it is religious, the WHM job storyline in the AF etc. is all tied to the Goddess, her love for the five races, and how priests and front-line priests (WHMs) can draw on the holy power of the Goddess to cure those five races.
But that is just storyline, it may be the reason that pet repairs and pet feeding have been kept separate from the priestly curing of the five races. I don't have any objections to the idea of AOE heals though, only that I can see the RPG-realism reasons they might have avoided it.

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Automatons can already cast cure on themselves (which being robots I've always thought odd lore-wise but I guess they're magical robots), while mobs can already cure themselves and others by either using the cure spells or equivalent job abilities (healing breeze etc), and (some) avatars have magical blood pacts to cure themselves with, so I really don't see a problem lore-wise why they shouldn't be able to get outside cures.

On a more general note saying that pets use oils/pet food/mulsum/etc. to heal themselves so they shouldn't need cures is like saying since players can use potions they shouldn't need cures.

As for other buffs, pets really do need them and I seriously doubt the new acc food we'll be getting will be enough to close the gap so pet jobs will be viable in end game content. Even if the food brings pet accuracy up to snuff, pets will still suffer from lack of attack/m.atk/m.acc/r.acc and most likely r.atk. If its not technically feasible to change the spell targeting code to include pets (I understand from other threads about having spells affect other parties in an alliance that spells have only three target categories self/party/anyone) give all pet jobs an empathy like ability so we can copy the buffs to our pets indirectly.

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Originally Posted by Telford

Automatons can already cast cure on themselves (which being robots I've always thought odd lore-wise but I guess they're magical robots), while mobs can already cure themselves and others by either using the cure spells or equivalent job abilities (healing breeze etc), and (some) avatars have magical blood pacts to cure themselves with, so I really don't see a problem lore-wise why they shouldn't be able to get outside cures.

On a more general note saying that pets use oils/pet food/mulsum/etc. to heal themselves so they shouldn't need cures is like saying since players can use potions they shouldn't need cures.

As for other buffs, pets really do need them and I seriously doubt the new acc food we'll be getting will be enough to close the gap so pet jobs will be viable in end game content. Even if the food brings pet accuracy up to snuff, pets will still suffer from lack of attack/m.atk/m.acc/r.acc and most likely r.atk. If its not technically feasible to change the spell targeting code to include pets (I understand from other threads about having spells affect other parties in an alliance that spells have only three target categories self/party/anyone) give all pet jobs an empathy like ability so we can copy the buffs to our pets indirectly.

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Lol, I knew someone would mention this. I brought abysseas potions every chance I got during that era. If there were potions that could stack, heal to almost full hp and constantly available like pet food, I would use them, lol. Actually, I do carry potions in my mog sack and quickly put them in inventory when I need them; but pet food there are not in terms of efficacy. I mean, you would not use dawns if they heal players? I would (perhaps there is a reason why dawns are not player usable "Wink").

Edit: On a serious note if anyone out there is aware of any stackable healing potions, please tell me (No sarcasm, would seriously use them. I do not know if any exist).

You guys/gals are entitled to your opinions; i will gladly accept cures on the pets^^

It just comes off as entitlement imo. I mean, the majority on in this thread feel pet food and jugs are too expensive to use; now they want curable pets on top of that. Guys; this thread also mentions pet food; what if they cost money?

Cost appears to concern the majority; what if the new food is craftable? Do you guys really believe it will be cheap? We all now by now that the new fad is always overpriced. For instance, several old/hardly ever used weapons are now over 100k due to the new fad; job specific weapons. When the new food is released and if it is crafable; it is going to be a whirlwind all over again; despite its' efficacy. I truly believe the new food could cost 50k, give a +25% boost in pet ws, 50% attack, magic attack, and acc, but ppl will still complain because it cost a little money. However, I can only speak for myself; if you guys do not like buying jugs, who am I to tell you "Screw you guys; everyone should farm or craft." Not gonna do that, until I start paying your subs. This is strictly my personal opinion, nothing more. As a 99bst, I do agree with pet survivability and damage buffs; however, pet items costing money? I just can't relate...I do not get it.....

The efficacy of the pets and its' price does not equate, I will say that. So I can agree, to an extent.

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It just comes off as entitlement imo. I mean, the majority on in this thread feel pet food and jugs are too expensive to use; now they want curable pets on top of that. Guys; this thread also mentions pet food; what if they cost money?

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It's not at all about entitlement, it's about good balance. Your pet is an extension of the pet job's being, and yet it can't be supported in any of the same ways as any other job.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's not at all about entitlement, it's about good balance. Your pet is an extension of the pet job's being, and yet it can't be supported in any of the same ways as any other job.

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I agree, to an extent. Pets can be cured; perhaps more efficiently than any dd, pets are pretty weak on harder content atm. If the tools to make our pets stronger were available; I truly believe ppl would still complain because it cost a few gil; that is all I way trying to say. Pets are an extension of our job, i agree. I just feel that individuals are throwing darts with this whole jug/food cost thing hoping SE bites.

However, I will say this, imo, SE shot itself in the foot with these pet jobs. Pets are extremely weak, hence SE is getting a barrage of complaints and suggestions thrown their way (Deservingly so) if the pets were stronger, the community would be forced to "get over it" akin to cost of items for other jobs. I do believe ppl would still complain if our jugs were simply amazing; however, they may get over it for an invite to delve; especially if it can survive the whole battle which was a complaint.

Perhaps ppl are not willing to pay for crap atm; in that case, I do not blame them. The current jugs should be free because they are crap. A free frog, stripped down boar, pink bird, and a mandy will not break the game. It would hurt a few of the crafters out there, but ppl should not be paying for this crap to begin with. Personally, I am more concerned with the efficacy of our pets; a cheap jug and a recycle esque JA will not matter if the jug is weak. Hopefully they also use the job point system to boost pets.

I have no complaints about farming/crafting/buying pet items, just as you would any other helpful item in the game. But as you say, I don't want to waste my time on crap. If this food the devs promise is amazing and gets us into content, then hell yeah I'll do whatever it takes to always have some on hand, and you wont hear a peep out of me about the gil cost.
My other wish is for Dawn Mulsums to stack!!

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

I have no complaints about farming/crafting/buying pet items, just as you would any other helpful item in the game. But as you say, I don't want to waste my time on crap. If this food the devs promise is amazing and gets us into content, then hell yeah I'll do whatever it takes to always have some on hand, and you wont hear a peep out of me about the gil cost.
My other wish is for Dawn Mulsums to stack!!

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Word^^

I do not have high hopes for the food though; hopefully SE proves me wrong, but bst has been out since XI's release and this stuff is just being implemented? If this thread were not created would they even bothered? I predict disappointment; hopefully I am wrong. We may be better off waiting for XIV's version of bst XD.

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

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Originally Posted by Shinron-PUP

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

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Of course! I wonder if such a buff would put pet jobs in end game content.

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Originally Posted by Shinron-PUP

I wonder... If the game developers were to allow pets to be targeted through buffs, cures, and enhancing magic, if they would also extend targeting pets to job abilities as well. For example:
-Sambas
-Cover
-Trick Attack
-Decoy Shot
-Warcry
-Mantra
-Accomplice
-Summoner Bloodpacts
These are just a few job abilities that could potentially be used on pets and would also bring about new strategies. Things like Ranger's decoy shot and Thief's trick attack could be used to divert hate to a pet which would be a interesting strategy since pets are more expendable than players. The ValorEdge Automaton is not to far off from being able to tank, the only problem it has is hate control because it has relatively few moves that can actually maintain constant hate. With a proper DD sub THF, I could definitely see a Automaton tanking being pretty efficient. Even cover might have its own applications with Luopans if a Paladin wants to keep it alive for some time longer.

What do you guys think? Would allowing pets to also be targeted through job abilities be something that you would like to see if such implementations were possible?

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Yeah, even if they were not to allow cures and buffs to also effect pets, I think that job abilities like Decoy shot and Trick attack/sneak attack should have always been able to be used on pets. I think something like this would have had a profound effect on solo strategy as well as in group content, however, which might be why the developers have neglected to ever make this possible. PUP, DRG, and BST all share a ability that erases hate to some degree (Ventriloquy, Super Jump, and Snarl). If trick attack was combined with ventriloquy, super jump, or snarl, it would allow pet jobs to easily divert hate to their pets whenever they wanted them to tank. Even in group content, Rangers, Thiefs, and /THF players could easily use pets as tanks and sources to throw excess hate on because, like you said, they are more expendable than players. With a solid party of THFs, /THF, or Rangers with Decoy shot, pets like ValorEdge, Avatars, and some Beastmaster pets could basically be used to tank which could be a pretty interesting substitute instead of bringing a Paladin to every event.

I have said for a long time that they should just straight up make BST into a tank. There are way too many generic DDs out there and BST sucks compared to all of them pretty much - so best way to make BST desired in groups is give it more tools to be a real tank (so more proper damage mitigation equipment/JAs and proper shields they can use and a second snarl or a lower recast on it, and maybe a way to suck hate off other players)

Pet would have to be curable by players though to make it work, unless you want to spend 2 mil gil and and have an entire inventory of dawn mulsims

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Originally Posted by Olor

I have said for a long time that they should just straight up make BST into a tank. There are way too many generic DDs out there and BST sucks compared to all of them pretty much - so best way to make BST desired in groups is give it more tools to be a real tank (so more proper damage mitigation equipment/JAs and proper shields they can use and a second snarl or a lower recast on it, and maybe a way to suck hate off other players)

Pet would have to be curable by players though to make it work, unless you want to spend 2 mil gil and and have an entire inventory of dawn mulsims

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Good point; I was a tank during the abyssea era; holding hate while the blm land procs, etc, It can be done. I am uncertain if SE would do this; the right pets can tank, however, we never get the right pets. in their eyes, a slime with its' defense resistance removed will suffice, oh, btw, epoxy spread is your only move, it cost 3 charges; enjoy^^

Edit: Cannot wait til the next batch of "mystery jugs" are released; it looks like a normal mob, until you get a glimpse of its' ready move list.