Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

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Originally Posted by chubrocka

Lmfao... now i really laughed out loud on that... Olor, he means things from kazham are sold outside of area lol. Not being in the zone. Great funny though 8).

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Oh, der. I fail.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Pray, how do you run to Kazham without the Kazham airship pass?

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And, you don't have to have an airship pass to get an item from kazham. I run there all the time to get mats and pick up stuff for people while I am there. The chat and delivery systems are wonderful things

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. . .

I've heard of selective hearing... but selective reading?

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Originally Posted by RAIST

. . .

I've heard of selective hearing... but selective reading?

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Yeah, I deserve to be mocked now. Free pass.

:)

lets get back on topic huh....

What was the topic.. ways acquire gear without crafting or gil ... hmmmm.. very interesting OP >_>

seems almost like they want some hand out system

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

seems almost like they want some hand out system

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Thread tl;dr for you.

People just want to have a decent range of gear available to buy at low levels. It's nothing to do with wanting handouts. It's nothing to do with people being lazy. There's obviously a problem or we wouldn't be having the AH merges. It's that simple.

"Suck it up and level a craft, or be happy with shite from the NPC's" are both incredibly short sighted suggestions which ignore the fact that this problem has been developing for a couple of years now. While I'm sure low level players don't want all +1 gear, they certainly deserve something better than being naked unless they spend hours and hours gathering gear, until they get to level 20/Jeuno.

Level 1~20 Gear, The Normal kind, Non-HQ, Can all be purchased from Starter-Cities for incredibly cheap.

You have places like the Tenshodo Shops in Starter cities selling low level (Up to soil i think) Gi-armor sets, Normal shops selling Up to (realistically) level ~14/15 armor sets, and so on. Conquest Points buy some of the better armors for low levels too. Its all Available pretty easily.

Post Jeuno (20+) theres almost always at least 1 of the item in stock you want. maybe not always. But a lot of the time theres at least some NQ instock.

Some of the more Obscure items, like say, Shade armor, usually isn't in stock. But I never seem to have problems finding gear on Asura, But if its bad other places i feel for new players. However some of them also need to understand for gear 1~20, The best place to look is generally Starter-City Shops, not the AH. I know Bastoks shops sell up to the Doublet-Class Armor (level 11) rather cheap, I know also Leather armor (Some good stuff early on) is purchasable very cheap. Most low level armor is pure DEF anyway.

After the Auction House Mergers, I think a lot of the problems will be eased, But rather its liked or not, the only real way to increase the supply to Auction house is to do something to make crafting low level armor more appealing.

Idk.. i soloed 17 of my subjobs to 37 way back when using the fov system... and gear at that level doesn't make a huge difference

I used the bronze / linen / w/e other trash was from the vendor or conquest tally merchant..

I can only imagine it being easier now with the exp boost and repeatable fov's...

bottom line is anybody who feels the need to blow a ton of gil on armor at that level has serious epeen issues.

system is fine.. if there was an actual demand for low level gear it would be on the AH.

and if it is a new player.. they really don't care too much about being in bronze / linen / conquest armor... its only old players with epeen issues that hate that >_>

I'm pretty sure armor/weapons also drops from the brown caskets as well.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

system is fine..

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If the system is fine I don't think we would have a developer in this very thread saying they are aware of the issue and are looking at ways to correct it.

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Originally Posted by Olor

If the system is fine I don't think we would have a developer in this very thread saying they are aware of the issue and are looking at ways to correct it.

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No offense, but there's certainly been times when the development team has been wrong in the past. Not saying they are now, just saying that when they say something like that, don't necessarily take it as 100% fact or a word from God or some such.

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Originally Posted by Olor

If the system is fine I don't think we would have a developer in this very thread saying they are aware of the issue and are looking at ways to correct it.

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That is a horrible logical fallacy >_>

I'm going to assume you don't use your brain to make a living.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

No offense, but there's certainly been times when the development team has been wrong in the past. Not saying they are now, just saying that when they say something like that, don't necessarily take it as 100% fact or a word from God or some such.

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I'm just taken aback by the number of people in this thread who don't seem to think that new players having a good range of gear available is a good thing. Any arguments that have been made are very weak when the auction houses in starter cities are basically empty.

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That is a horrible logical fallacy >_>

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Pot, Kettle? It's no worse than your blinding gem of wisdom about supply and demand on the previous page.

He's entirely correct by the way too.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm just taken aback by the number of people in this thread who don't seem to think that new players having a good range of gear available is a good thing. Any arguments that have been made are very weak when the auction houses in starter cities are basically empty.

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I think everyone believes the Auction house Merge is a wonderful thing.

I just don't think everyone believes we need to spoon feed new players gear. As the Dev Said, If the Auction house Merger isn't enough, They'll find other ways to resolve it. However i think the Auction house merge will solve a good Chunk of Issues.

Though Really, Level 1~15 People should buy armor from NPCs, Its cheaper and easier than AH. Past that I think this Merge will be a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I just don't think everyone believes we need to spoon feed new players gear. .

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Well, I, for one, haven't been advocating for new players to be spoon fed. I've been suggesting making crafting easier to level (by increasing skill ups) because atm it is too expensive for a new player to get into (and would also provide incentive for older players to give it a whirl if they haven't yet). And increasing the number of affordable items available from npcs.

Neither of those things "spoon feeds" gear to new players.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Though Really, Level 1~15 People should buy armor from NPCs, Its cheaper and easier than AH. Past that I think this Merge will be a good idea.

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Well that the issue right there really. The AH should be the first option for people, certainly once you get to the second tier of equipment (leather gear etc.).

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I just don't think everyone believes we need to spoon feed new players gear.

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Ditto, working for it is very rewarding and a good exercise for people. You can get just as much satisfaction saving for and buying low level gear as much of the gear at end game. However, having nothing to work towards because supply is non-existent is a real turn off for new players. At least IMHO.

[QUOTE=blowfin;67080]I'm just taken aback by the number of people in this thread who don't seem to think that new players having a good range of gear available is a good thing. Any arguments that have been made are very weak when the auction houses in starter cities are basically empty.

Supply and demand is a logical fallacy ..

no.. just stop now ;o

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm just taken aback by the number of people in this thread who don't seem to think that new players having a good range of gear available is a good thing. Any arguments that have been made are very weak when the auction houses in starter cities are basically empty.

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Pretty sure this isn't the first time I've had to remind you (and if not you, others arguing on the same side as you): I'm not against doing a little something to help. In fact, I've stated that multiple times. The only thing I've been arguing is the necessity. Why? Because it's not necessary, not at all.

As many have pointed out, there are plenty of ways to acquire gear - many often better than the AH. And for any way that costs gil, there's been many examples of how easy earning gil really is. There've been logical arguments showing all of this stuff, time and again. And most everyone on this side of the fence believes that some sort of help would be nice, despite the lack of necessity. For some people it may stop at the merging of the Auction Houses. For others there may be a few extra steps that would be a good idea (perhaps increasing drop rate of gear from mobs that already drop it and/or increasing the number/type of mobs that drop gear for low level).

Regardless of how much you may or may not want to admit it, the desire to "fix" or "not fix" the "problem" boils down to an opinion. People like OP/blowfin/Olor are of the opinion that helping would be a good thing. People like myself and Karbuncle share this opinion (gasp!), though may be reserved on how much helping would turn into a bad thing (spoon feeding etc).

We're not arguing opinions, we're arguing the facts: the most prominent being that it's simply not necessary, as getting gear for low levels is easy through a variety of avenues and means. Supporting the ways to travel said avenues is also easy. Hence all the examples to support this.

The post made on behalf of the dev team (from the community rep) is also an opinion. Because no matter how much they want to help, it does nothing to change how easy getting gear currently is.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Well, I, for one, haven't been advocating for new players to be spoon fed. I've been suggesting making crafting easier to level (by increasing skill ups) because atm it is too expensive for a new player to get into (and would also provide incentive for older players to give it a whirl if they haven't yet). And increasing the number of affordable items available from npcs.

Neither of those things "spoon feeds" gear to new players.

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Good ideas yes. Though I don't think making it easier will make it less costly to level. In fact it might make some items become more expensive due to increased demand, kinda defeating the purpose. But we wouldn't know till we tried.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Well that the issue right there really. The AH should be the first option for people, certainly once you get to the second tier of equipment (leather gear etc.).



Ditto, working for it is very rewarding and a good exercise for people. You can get just as much satisfaction saving for and buying low level gear as much of the gear at end game. However, having nothing to work towards because supply is non-existent is a real turn off for new players. At least IMHO.

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Mmm, While i believe AH should be the first place to go. The Low-Level Armor shops in the cities are there for a reason. Just because you should be able to get them at the AH, doesn't make those Shops any more useful, or any less Available. They're there and should be used. That solves basic NQ Gear to ~15. Past that i agree theres a shortage of armor, I noticed it in a few things, I had to camp the AH for a few days for a pair of Battle gloves for instance.

um... ok... some people are getting it, but some aren't. Some of you keep going back to gear not being in the AH of the starter citeis, and keep ignoring the prospect of acceptable gear being available from the NPC's--even when a specific example is given.

Again....please... provide some specific examples of not being able to find gear you need in a starter city. Several have stated that you can find reasonably priced, adequate gear from NPC's that will take you all the way to Jueno, where you are more likely to find higher teir gear in that AH (which WILL be a mute point once the AH's merge).

Short and simple: if you think the auction house merge is a good thing we're on the same page. New players have already been spoon fed enough with the exp increase IMHO.

For me it boils down to this: We had a wide range of gear available to us on the Auction house back in the "olde days". Why shouldn't new players these days have the same? For me saving for and buying stuff of the Bastok AH was something I got a massive kick out of, you simply can't do that these days. The depth offered by that part of the game is long gone.

Again: The "craft it yourself" or "buy it from an NPC" arguments are short term, player driven solutions that ignore the actual problem and lack perspective.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Again: The "craft it yourself" or "buy it from an NPC" arguments are short term, player driven solutions that ignore the actual problem and lack perspective.

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Glass is half full vs. glass is half empty. This is only a matter of perspective, as I see it as there already being plenty of legitimate, acceptable methods already in place within the game itself.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Short and simple: if you think the auction house merge is a good thing we're on the same page. New players have already been spoon fed enough with the exp increase IMHO.

For me it boils down to this: We had a wide range of gear available to us on the Auction house back in the "olde days". Why shouldn't new players these days have the same? For me saving for and buying stuff of the Bastok AH was something I got a massive kick out of, you simply can't do that these days. The depth offered by that part of the game is long gone.

Again: The "craft it yourself" or "buy it from an NPC" arguments are short term, player driven solutions that ignore the actual problem and lack perspective.

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Thinking you will be low level forever and spending a ton of time on that gear is short sighted ;o

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Originally Posted by RAIST

um... ok... some people are getting it, but some aren't. Some of you keep going back to gear not being in the AH of the starter citeis, and keep ignoring the prospect of acceptable gear being available from the NPC's--even when a specific example is given.

Again....please... provide some specific examples of not being able to find gear you need in a starter city. Several have stated that you can find reasonably priced, adequate gear from NPC's that will take you all the way to Jueno, where you are more likely to find higher teir gear in that AH (which WILL be a mute point once the AH's merge).

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This isn't just about the starter cities and level 1-15 gear. There's an economic issue going on in the game where the vast majority of content outside of (and especially before) Abyssea has become completely neglected.

I've had to go 10+ levels with underequipped jobs while soloing in Qufim, for example. I happen to have a link to FFXIclopedia handy on my laptop so that I can find out if an NPC has what I need...and even then I've still been stuck without the appropriate gear.

It should be not be a novel thing to join an EXP party at level 40 with level 40 gear, and then put some of that gear on the AH when you get back and buy that shiny new BCNM weapon that you can finally equip. The game just does not roll that way anymore and it's more of a get to(wearing whatever you can scavenge) level 30 so you can throw it into the Abyssea machine and out pops a new job. This has had a drastic impact on the game (no one cares about levels 1-75/89 because you're not playing with anyone else anyway) that happens to show up very obviously on the AH. This is a bad thing, and I think it is the main argument going on whether or not everyone recognizes it.

For the sake of argument, though, let's pretend that we're all just imagining this problem and that all of these things are obtainable through NPC's. Still, I shouldn't need to travel across Vana'diel every 5 levels hoping that the previous week's conquest tally fell in my favor.

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Glass is half full vs. glass is half empty. This is only a matter of perspective, as I see it as there already being plenty of legitimate, acceptable methods already in place within the game itself.

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I agree. I'm saying other people might not. Can you wrap your mind around the idea that i'm not just out for myself? I know it's a hard concept to understand on these forums.

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Thinking you will be low level forever and spending a ton of time on that gear is short sighted ;o

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Why would you think that? Are all your posts cheap shots at people? Personally I just think it would be nice for people below level 20 to actually be able to purchase rings, neck, and whatever else off the starter city Auction houses, if they want to. I certainly wasn't able to when I last took a job from 0-20.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Several have stated that you can find reasonably priced, adequate gear from NPC's that will take you all the way to Jueno, where you are more likely to find higher teir gear in that AH (which WILL be a mute point once the AH's merge).

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http://www.ffxiah.com/browse/2/daggers

Okay let's say you are a level 40 dancer... on catsith... Which dagger are you going to buy? There isn't a single dagger for sale on the AH between level 31 and level 43. You already have the BEST level 25 daggers... but you are out there trying to solo - and it is getting really hard cause your level 25 daggers don't do so well against level 40 prey...

How can anyone argue this isn't a problem?

There is conquest points gear and race specific gear that can all be gotten for free for low levels. Race specific gear can be worn until af. I put gear on the ah all the time and it doesn't sell so I npc it.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I agree. I'm saying other people might not. Can you wrap your mind around the idea that i'm not just out for myself? I know it's a hard concept to understand on these forums.

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Herp derp, I've got nothing else constructive to say so I'll say nothing and give an insinuated insult, is that what you meant to say? Cause that's how it read.

Really though, where on earth did you get the idea that I said you were out for yourself? And if I didn't agree that some others might not agree, why would I bother mentioning it's a matter of perspective in the first place. If I really thought that my point of view was the only way, I surely wouldn't leave room to include the opinion and/or views of anybody else (in other words, I'd have not said perspective, I've have simply said you were wrong). What I don't understand is that despite us being on the same page about a number of things you feel the need to dole out subtle insults and attempt to white-knight against the "bad guys."

Grow up.

Crafting shouldn't be so easily dismissed as too hard and too expensive. There are countless guides out there that walk you through easy leveling paths that PAY FOR THEMSELVES. You get a lot of the materials needed to start crafting as you start xping. And the level 7-12 gears become craftable at low levels, and you can start upgrading some of the first tier of CP gears shortly after you take your first test in those crafts. While it's not perfect by any means... it IS an option that people are just dismissing too easily.

Here is just one example of how easy and beneficial crafting can be. I have a level 15 leather craft, and the only thing I actively pursued for it was my first test item--it was leveled as a subcraft to other stuff I was making to WEAR as I leveled up. With just that level 15 leather I can already make the entire level 7 leather set (fully craftable at level 9, some of it can be done from level 0), and the full level 17 Lizard set (some of which is done by upgrading the level 7 gear). These sets area also available for a reasonable price from the NPC's as well, btw.

Someone could reasonably take up leather early on largely with mats that drop as they are xping and buying mats from NPC, make pieces for themselves, friends, to sell in the AH--making gil, increasing circulation, skilling up, and making higher level gear that increases more circulation and skillups, and so and so and so forth. It is structured this way for a reason--so that you can craft as you xp, and enhance the player economy.

EACH craft follows a similar pattern, supporting differnt sections of the job base. You can pick the craft track that supports your job path and roll with it. I was making my own shihei before I even unlocked NIN because I leveled RNG to 30, crafting my own crap along the way.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

Thinking you will be low level forever and spending a ton of time on that gear is short sighted ;o

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No one thinks that they will be low level forever. It's simply a matter of enjoying the experience as you go and maximizing your character's ability as you progress.

Thinking FFXI will be around forever and spending a ton of time on any gear is short sighted ;o


I know it hurts to lose all of that free EXP, but raising the cap on Abyssea to 76 would go a long way in fixing this problem.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

Herp derp, I've got nothing else constructive to say so I'll say nothing and give an insinuated insult, is that what you meant to say? Cause that's how it read.

Really though, where on earth did you get the idea that I said you were out for yourself? And if I didn't agree that some others might not agree, why would I bother mentioning it's a matter of perspective in the first place. If I really thought that my point of view was the only way, I surely wouldn't leave room to include the opinion and/or views of anybody else (in other words, I'd have not said perspective, I've have simply said you were wrong). What I don't understand is that despite us being on the same page about a number of things you feel the need to dole out subtle insults and attempt to white-knight against the "bad guys."

Grow up.

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Really? You've wasted several thousand words covering points that, if you actually read my posts in this thread, you didn't need to mention to me. But hey, just blanket everyone who even mildy disagrees with you in the same bucket. I assume it`s much easier to rationalise.

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I know it hurts to lose all of that free EXP, but raising the cap on Abyssea to 76 would go a long way in fixing this problem.

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One of the reasons the cap is set at 30 is the issue that`s being discussed in this thread. We`d all be leveling half naked to 75 if we couldn`t enter at 30.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

No one thinks that they will be low level forever. It's simply a matter of enjoying the experience as you go and maximizing your character's ability as you progress.

Thinking FFXI will be around forever and spending a ton of time on any gear is short sighted ;o


I know it hurts to lose all of that free EXP, but raising the cap on Abyssea to 76 would go a long way in fixing this problem.

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Forward ever, backward never.

The cat is out of the bag, the horses have bolted, the rubicon has been crossed and there is no going back. If SE pulls an "Abyssea is for 70+ only", people will quit because frankly setting up a grind as a roadblock for content already beaten to death is silly.

SE took a gamble on Abyssea and this is one of the unintended (?) consequences. Either SE can create low/midlevel content of challenge, completely leave pre75 content to rot or somehow through a high level content involve the AH more readily.

Either way, the solution is never to take away something that wasn't an exploit to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Forward ever, backward never.

The cat is out of the bag, the horses have bolted, the rubicon has been crossed and there is no going back. If SE pulls an "Abyssea is for 70+ only", people will quit because frankly setting up a grind as a roadblock for content already beaten to death is silly.

SE took a gamble on Abyssea and this is one of the unintended (?) consequences. Either SE can create low/midlevel content of challenge, completely leave pre75 content to rot or somehow through a high level content involve the AH more readily.

Either way, the solution is never to take away something that wasn't an exploit to begin with.

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I guess you haven't been around long enough to see half of the jobs on the game be nerfed at some point?

While I agree that there would be some backlash (I've taken advantage of Abyssea leeching myself, especially for subs), I think that the overall balance of the game has been damaged far too much to just count our losses. This is different because it effects everyone and not a single job, but the game's history does include comparable situations that at least provide some insight into how big the impact would be.

Taking Abyssea away completely, yeah that would cause a lot of harm. Taking away the ability to readily leech a job from 30-90 would only upset people who already take this game so seriously that they probably wouldn't quit anyway. At the end of the day, the game would be much better off if it was structured so that people actually play in parties for the bulk of a job's progression again.

You do bring up a good point when you talk about content that has already been beaten to death, and this is why more needs to be done (ontop of raising the cap on Abyssea) to revamp but not eliminate the traditional experience. Whether that is incentive based, new content, or all of the above...people need reasons to do it. The EXP boost was great, but not quite enough.

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Originally Posted by Olor

http://www.ffxiah.com/browse/2/daggers

Okay let's say you are a level 40 dancer... on catsith... Which dagger are you going to buy? There isn't a single dagger for sale on the AH between level 31 and level 43. You already have the BEST level 25 daggers... but you are out there trying to solo - and it is getting really hard cause your level 25 daggers don't do so well against level 40 prey...

How can anyone argue this isn't a problem?

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Thank you, an example we can discuss.

You have the Best 25 daggers... would that be the upgraded CP item?

Federation Knife - 13 dmg, 180 delay, 2 ACC, 5 Attack (4.33 DPS)
Crafted as HQ synth, Smithing (26): Fire Crystal, Merc. Knife (2000 CP, Rank2 Windy), Iron Ingot


Simpler options:

lvl 30 Merc. Capt. Kukri (4000CP , Windy Rank2): 13 dmg, 194 delay, 3 ACC (4.02 DPS)

lvl 31 Mythril Knife: 12 damage, 195 delay (HQ is 13 dmg, 190 delay) (3.69/4.11 DPS)
Smithing(34): Fire crystal, Mythril Ingot, Chestnut Lumber
Estimated cost to synth: @10k if mats from AH, less if some farmed/crafted
NPC sells for @ 14,500 in Upper Jueno (Coumuna)

lvl 34 Mythril Kukri: 14 dmg, 200 delay (HQ is 15 dmg, 194 delay) (4.20/4.64 DPS)
Smithing (42): fire crystal, Mythril Ingot, Oak Lumber, Raptor skin
Estimated cost to synth: @ 11k if mats from AH, less if some are farmed/crafted.

lvl 34 Wind. or Fed. Kukri: 14 dmg, 188 delay, 3 ACC, 5ATT outside nation control
(HQ is 15 dmg, 182 delay, 3 ACC, 7ATT ouside nation control)(4.47/4.95DPS)
Smithing (38): Merc. Capt. Kukri, Steel Ingot
Estimate cost to synth: @4100 if kukri bought with CP(20k gil from AH), rest from AH

There are more advanced synths also with harder to obtain mats, or requiring additional synths to complete. Here is one example:

lvl 30 Thug's Jambiya: 13 delay, 210 delay, 1 dex (hq: 14 dmg, 194 delay, 2 dex)(3.88/4.33 DPS)
requires 3 crafts to make, mats run about 22k on Caitsyth, but can be farmed/crafted for less

There are also things like Archers Knife and Chiroptera dagger that can be farmed.

Most of these knifes are close in ther DPS ratings. Only 3 exceed your current weapon, one of which sacrifices your ACC/ATT bonus and requires an HQ synth to make. The only guaranteed improvemnt is to get the level 30 CP item and have it crafted to the level 34 Wind/Fed Kukri. This is an easy synth to get someone to do if you can get the mats to send, but you are looking at spending upwards of 4k per knife for less than a 10% increase in DPS.

Which begs the question, is it worth it to you to upgrade now, or wait to hit 46 and invest in the bone knives (which btw you might actually get for free while leveling):

lvl 46 bone Knife: 17 dmg, 195 delay, (light -5), 3 ACC, 3 ATT (523 DPS)
(HQ is 18 dmg, 190 delay, (light 05), 5 ACC, 5 ATT (568 DPS)
Bonecraft (41): wind crystal, Walnut Lumber, Giant Femur
Estimated cost on caitsyth: @1800 if mats from AH
***can also appear in chest in Xarcabard and W. Altepa Desert***

tldr: there is a CP knife that can easily be upgraded for as low as 4k on your server if you can get the mats and the knife. Otherwise, almost every other dagger available to you until 46 is on par or lower DPS rthan your current weapon. The dagger at 46 can be obtained while you are leveling in W. Altepa for free, or you can easily get it crafted for around 2k worth of mats on your server.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Thank you, an example we can discuss.

You have the Best 25 daggers... would that be the upgraded CP item?

Federation Knife - 13 dmg, 180 delay, 2 ACC, 5 Attack (4.33 DPS)
Crafted as HQ synth, Smithing (26): Fire Crystal, Merc. Knife (2000 CP, Rank2 Windy), Iron Ingot


Simpler options:

lvl 30 Merc. Capt. Kukri (4000CP , Windy Rank2): 13 dmg, 194 delay, 3 ACC (4.02 DPS)

lvl 31 Mythril Knife: 12 damage, 195 delay (HQ is 13 dmg, 190 delay) (3.69/4.11 DPS)
Smithing(34): Fire crystal, Mythril Ingot, Chestnut Lumber
Estimated cost to synth: @10k if mats from AH, less if some farmed/crafted
NPC sells for @ 14,500 in Upper Jueno (Coumuna)

lvl 34 Mythril Kukri: 14 dmg, 200 delay (HQ is 15 dmg, 194 delay) (4.20/4.64 DPS)
Smithing (42): fire crystal, Mythril Ingot, Oak Lumber, Raptor skin
Estimated cost to synth: @ 11k if mats from AH, less if some are farmed/crafted.

lvl 34 Wind. or Fed. Kukri: 14 dmg, 188 delay, 3 ACC, 5ATT outside nation control (4.47/4.95DPS)
(HQ is 15 dmg, 182 delay, 3 ACC, 7ATT ouside nation control)
Smithing (38): Merc. Capt. Kukri, Steel Ingot
Estimate cost to synth: @4100 if kukri bought with CP(20k gil from AH), rest from AH

There are more advanced synths also with harder to obtain mats, or requiring additional synths to complete. Here is one example:

lvl 30 Thug's Jambiya: 13 delay, 210 delay, 1 dex (hq: 14 dmg, 194 delay, 2 dex)(3.88/4.33 DPS)
requires 3 crafts to make, mats run about 22k on Caitsyth, but can be farmed/crafted for less

There are also things like Archers Knife and Chiroptera dagger that can be farmed.

Most of these knifes are close in ther DPS ratings. Only 3 exceed your current weapon, one of which sacrifices your ACC/ATT bonus and requires an HQ synth to make. The only guaranteed improvemnt is to get the level 30 CP item and have it crafted to the level 34 Wind/Fed Kukri. This is an easy synth to get someone to do if you can get the mats to send, but you are looking at spending upwards of 4k per knife for less than a 10% increase in DPS.

Which begs the question, is it worth it to you to upgrade now, or wait to hit 46 and invest in the bone knives (which btw you might actually get for free while leveling):
lvl 46 bone Knife: 17 dmg, 195 delay, (light -5), 3 ACC, 3 ATT (523 DPS)
(HQ is 18 dmg, 190 delay, (light 05), 5 ACC, 5 ATT (568 DPS)
Bonecraft (41): wind crystal, Walnut Lumber, Giant Femur
Estimated cost on caitsyth: @1800 if mats from AH
***can also appear in chest in Xarcabard and W. Altepa Desert***

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...Are you saying that because something is obtainable in the game, that the AH is irrelevant? You could make that argument about absolutely every item in the game that can be sold, and all you'd really be saying is that it's no biggie if the game's economy is dead- just go farm, make, camp, CP everything yourself!

Are players (especially new players) expected to have a 40+ craft before their first job is level 40, or switch nations just to get a new weapon for the next few levels?

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Originally Posted by Selzak

Are players (especially new players) expected to have a 40+ craft before their first job is level 40, or switch nations just to get a new weapon for the next few levels?

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Thank you... so much.

I mean seriously. Yes, these things are technically obtainable - but gimme a break. Most players don't want to spend their first month on an MMO farming/crafting.

I hope SE doesn't listen to people who claim new players that don't want to level every craft to 60 before leveling up their character are just lazy - or this game is gonna die fast.

All the examples in the world of how to acquire items arent going to change the fact the the Auction Houses are empty.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

All the examples in the world of how to acquire items arent going to change the fact the the Auction Houses are empty.

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No, no no... According to RAIST people should just level Smithing to 30+ in order to get a knife... nevermind that the materials to level the smithing are probably not very affordable/available. If someone doesn't want to spend 100K leveling a craft so they can have a knife over lvl 25 to solo with... they are lazy!

And then when someone wants some level 30-40 gears to go with that knife they should go level clothcraft and leatherworking to do so... as well.

Yeah. I mean come on. That's just not reasonable. The learning curve in XI is steep enough - having no gear on the auction house drives away new players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selzak

...Are you saying that because something is obtainable in the game, that the AH is irrelevant? You could make that argument about absolutely every item in the game that can be sold, and all you'd really be saying is that it's no biggie if the game's economy is dead- just go farm, make, camp, CP everything yourself!

Are players (especially new players) expected to have a 40+ craft before their first job is level 40, or switch nations just to get a new weapon for the next few levels?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olor

No, no no... According to RAIST people should just level Smithing to 30+ in order to get a knife... nevermind that the materials to level the smithing are probably not very affordable/available. If someone doesn't want to spend 100K leveling a craft so they can have a knife over lvl 25 to solo with... they are lazy!

And then when someone wants some level 30-40 gears to go with that knife they should go level clothcraft and leatherworking to do so... as well.

Yeah. I mean come on. That's just not reasonable. The learning curve in XI is steep enough - having no gear on the auction house drives away new players.

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Where did I say that HE had to craft it? I said the he could GET it crafted. Have you never seen shouts for crafting assistance? Has no one in your LS ever asked if someone can craft something for them? Did you not even see that I stated that it is an easy synth to get someone to help you with? Here... let me point it out for you:

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Most of these knifes are close in ther DPS ratings. Only 3 exceed your current weapon, one of which sacrifices your ACC/ATT bonus and requires an HQ synth to make. The only guaranteed improvemnt is to get the level 30 CP item and have it crafted to the level 34 Wind/Fed Kukri. This is an easy synth to get someone to do if you can get the mats to send, but you are looking at spending upwards of 4k per knife for less than a 10% increase in DPS.

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and, btw, I never said the AH was irrelevant. In fact... in that post it is VERY relevant, as for each recipe I quoted estimations for BUYING THE MATS ON CAITSITH'S AH. The point is the AH is not the ONLY WAY TO ACGUIRE GEAR. It dind't even take me 10 minutes to pull up all that information, only needed 2 links:

http://www.ffxiah.com/browse/2/daggers
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/dyn/items/job19.html

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Where did I say that HE had to craft it? I said the he could GET it crafted. Have you never seen shouts for crafting assistance? Has no one in your LS ever asked if someone can craft something for them? Did you not even see that I stated that it is an easy synth to get someone to help you with? Here... let me point it out for you:



and, btw, I never said the AH was irrelevant. In fact... in that post it is VERY relevant, as for each recipe I quoted estimations for BUYING THE MATS ON CAITSITH'S AH. The point is the AH is not the ONLY WAY TO ACGUIRE GEAR. It dind't even take me 10 minutes to pull up all that information, only needed 2 links:

http://www.ffxiah.com/browse/2/daggers
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/dyn/items/job19.html

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Who's arguing that the AH is the only way to acquire gear?

Btw thanks for pointing something out that was contextually pointed to only one of your examples. How about this one that was posted first:

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lvl 34 Mythril Kukri: 14 dmg, 200 delay (HQ is 15 dmg, 194 delay) (4.20/4.64 DPS)
Smithing (42): fire crystal, Mythril Ingot, Oak Lumber, Raptor skin
Estimated cost to synth: @ 11k if mats from AH, less if some are farmed/crafted.

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...or any of the others, really? It's odd that you'd mention it specifically for one random example if you meant to imply it for all of them.

Even if you did mean to imply that we should have all of them synthed, it's still only noting that items are obtainable (in a way that is much less direct than the system that players are meant to exchange items through but is currently bare).

I don't think anyone here was asking how to obtain the items that aren't on the AH. The issue is that in a healthy economy many of those items should be there and that you shouldn't have to jump through hoops (this includes /shouting for someone who's high enough in a particular craft and who might be willing to use the materials that you looked up online to build your level 32 dagger).

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The point is the AH is not the ONLY WAY TO ACGUIRE GEAR.

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The point is that if the AH had decent stock levels, it's a far more efficient and convenient way to get your gear than crafting it yourself or having someone else craft it for you. I'm sure people are well aware that there are other means of getting gear. You're pretty much insulting people's intelligence by repeatedly implying they don't know you can craft weapons and armor.