Wake up, "Seekers" is failing

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.

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SE already said they will tone down difficulty as time goes on. What requires 18 today will be 6-12 mannable down the road. If you want the cutting edge gear you'll need a well organized 18 man alliance, that won't change.

I'm aware they've said they'll adjust the difficulty. And to be honest, that doesn't sit well with me either - why make events that require 18 well-organized and well-geared people, only to spend time to adjust that down the road - on purpose, no less? With the very limited resources given to FFXI by SE these days, why do this? It makes no sense to me. Oh well.

I would imagine the difficulty acts as a stall for time since they're apparently playing catch up with the content they're putting out.

So the people who are able to clear the content atm get to feel special and I mean that in a cigarette after a good romp between the sheets kinda way not as a snide way. While the Dev Team gets their time needed to put even more difficult things out so that way they can nerf what was already difficult.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.

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First I'm pretty sure all the census results have always showed that most linkshells had less than 9-10 players. FFXI has never worked the way plenty of BG rejects think it works : large linkshells have never existed. Sure here and there you had a few LS that didn't plenty of things like sky hnms dynamis, but in reality thoses were not necessarely the best geared players. I clearly remember when I first did sky in 2005 or 6 seeing goups of 5 or 6 JP farming sky pops and gods. Most of the engame players have been using different LSs for different events because the cockblock is too big when you try to do everything. I know at one point I had dynamis, einherjar and limbus shells going twice a week, a salvage shell going 4x a week etc. All with different leaders and rules.

Secondly you say it's going to be hard for people not in delve atm but really it's not the case, and that's precisely one of the reasons I made the thread. I mean we all now delve weapons (upgradable ones, craftables ones, or boss ones) are going to be trashed by relic+empy ws combo or empy+relic ws combo. The only thing you may be missing is a couple of plasm gear but really, they KI is not a cockblock.

@damane : No the reason I'm no part of LS doing bosses is not because "none wants" me. I've done einherjar boss a good 30 times back when it was the thing to do. If SE did not already annouce that RME would trash delve weapons I'm sure I would have been into it. But like many hardcore I gave up because there is no point to it, especially I've seen what they did to skirmish (I invested litterally hunderd of millions in pop items lol). Back when NA could not get a single salvage drop on BG me and mdk were joining JP pugs/lses doing all NMs+ boss in salvage or odin runs so it would be fairly easy to get a drop. I just don't see the point to invest so much time in it when :
- getting 70k plasm per run is useless when you are 3 months after the adoulin-VU and all your gear should be upgraded already (if not you may ask yourself if you are really efficient at delve)
- RME going back on top which is especiallly interesting for me due to my sig.
- Holidays and FFXIV both are coming so noone will play the game at least for the next 6 months

While I wish it to be true that R/E/Ms will be equal/superior to Delve weapons, and stay that way, I don't think that will be the case. Maybe you missed this post Pchan:


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post448309

in particular this part:

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Why not increase the level cap?
To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option.

So then what were our options?

Below are the two plans:

1. Expand equipment variation laterally
   This would be preserving the original style of the game up until now.
   Keeping relics, mythics, and empyreans at the top, add gear that can be used depending on the situation without creating higher tiers of equipment. No changes to the level 99 cap.
   
   
2. Boost equipment variation vertically
   This is the current plan.
   Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean. Player level cap of 99 remains unchanged, but growth takes place via equipment.

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Edit: that post is from yesterday by the way, and going by that they are planning to add equipment that surpasses R/E/Ms even after they get their update. :/

Just to be perfectly clear for the poor employees who have to read this dreck, this topic is an ironic troll thread. Seekers is great and way better than the recycled mediocrity that was rolled out in the past 2 years or so stretching from Crystalline Prophecy through Voidwatch.

Death to the "Balance" years and onward to "Comensurate" rewards.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I think one thing SE's failing to realize here, is how the game changed after they raised the level cap. Back at 75 cap, very few things could be lowmanned. Then abyssea was released along with the level cap being lifted, and once we learned the ins and outs of abyssea, we also learned that lowmanning was the way to go for efficiency. Along with abyssea, there were also being made changes to older events, which allowed us to lowman or even solo those aswell. All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.

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Contrary to what Pchan thinks, many large endgame linkshells exist even in this state of the game. Some adapted through Abyssea and still survive today. A quick review of the linkshell lists on AH.com and all the linkshells posting testimonials on the Fracture Bosses on BG illustrate that there are still a great number of multiple-event shells left.

It is a bit facetious to claim that the game changed so much during the time of Abyssea when 18-man content has been continually implemented at essentially the same time. Voidwatch, Legion, ADL, and Odin v2 were all events a linkshell could rotate between. Lowmanning in Abyssea did not even happen as the norm until Minikin/RR was added in the second Abyssea add-on. Soon after, VW was implemented, thereby giving larger groups a new 18-man event to sink their teeth into. Of course, Abyssea was many times more popular and many times more rewarding than Voidwatch, and therefore it takes primacy in peoples' minds with respect to the "trend" of the game. The fact remains though that SE has tried to cater to both types of events.

I don't think it's such a crime for SE to implement ONE single event in its entire new patch that takes a coordinated linkshell (i.e., Fracture Bosses). All other events in Adoulin can theoretically be done in PUGs. The devs should be catering to both casual players and hardcore players; each set is vital to the game's success.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I just don't see the point to invest so much time in it when :
- getting 70k plasm per run is useless when you are 3 months after the adoulin-VU and all your gear should be upgraded already (if not you may ask yourself if you are really efficient at delve)
- RME going back on top which is especiallly interesting for me due to my sig.
- Holidays and FFXIV both are coming so noone will play the game at least for the next 6 months

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Actually, if someone elected to get 70k plasm in one 45 minute run to upgrade their gear (or buy Airlixir +2's to sell at 7M a pop) instead of spending 450 minutes going on 10 runs at ~7k plasm per run, I'd say they were pretty darn efficient at Delve.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Missions, Quests, Mog Gardens, Coalition assignments, new areas to explore, Monstrosity, Skirmish, and lastly yes, Reives. I saw quite a few things in there myself. In the end, still not what matters most, broken things are still broken, Delve is still to many people with no announced low-man version, they said they are working on it, but no release. Which to me means its coming to late to matter to anyone interested probably because FFXIV, or simply people not willing to wait on the game to be worth playing anymore.

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Yeah I misrepresented that. I should have specified that the only low-man addition coming that looked possibly interesting to me was Reive adjustments, but unfortunately those were boring in their old form after a week. Monstrosity and Mog Gardens never appealed to me, so I just skipped them in the update notes. But objectively yes there's more than Reives for low-man.

I just read your request to stop new content and honestly that's what's behind much of my disappointment. I was excited by a new expansion, especially new jobs, but once I saw what that actually contained my mind just went back to all of the things that sounded cool from the roadmap - SPs, avatars, merits. Those things, along with UI and inventory space improvements, are a lot more exciting to me than new cross-job equipment.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Contrary to what Pchan thinks, many large endgame linkshells exist even in this state of the game. Some adapted through Abyssea and still survive today. A quick review of the linkshell lists on AH.com and all the linkshells posting testimonials on the Fracture Bosses on BG illustrate that there are still a great number of multiple-event shells left.

It is a bit facetious to claim that the game changed so much during the time of Abyssea when 18-man content has been continually implemented at essentially the same time. Voidwatch, Legion, ADL, and Odin v2 were all events a linkshell could rotate between..

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Out of curiosity, how many linkshells would you say are doing Delve Bosses?

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Originally Posted by Gwynplaine

Seekers is great and way better than the recycled mediocrity that was rolled out in the past 2 years or so stretching from Crystalline Prophecy through Voidwatch.

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Saying that fighting in glorified meripos and killing rocks and trees is superior to a bunch of fetch quests attached to a pathetic excuse for a story is like saying Chinese Water Torture isn't as bad as having your eyeballs gouged out.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

While I wish it to be true that R/E/Ms will be equal/superior to Delve weapons, and stay that way, I don't think that will be the case. Maybe you missed this post Pchan:


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post448309

in particular this part:



Edit: that post is from yesterday by the way, and going by that they are planning to add equipment that surpasses R/E/Ms even after they get their update. :/

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Well I think it's over then. If people realize the devs have been lying about expanding RME it'll give everyone that has been playing over the last years a reason to quit. There is no way anyone sane could accept that a single NM kill allows you to have 100% access (as there is no drop rate, it's a Key item) to a weapon that beats by 40% others requiring several hundred of hours to obtain which many already obtained. Now if they allow to build better weapons that are obtained in a similar way as rme (with effort) it's a different story.

Anyway we must take caution when reading the devs. They think their delve gear is super awesome but in reality all the mage gear sucks, and as for DDs you can allow at best one or two pieces in a ultimate build. In reality I've yet to see them release something that beats nyzul2 or salvage2 gear (all low man events..). For instance on monk only the delve legs stand out, the rest is ubber crap especially on delve bosses where you can abuse some jobs unique ability (atm : soulvoiced madrigal minuet etc).

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Out of curiosity, how many linkshells would you say are doing Delve Bosses?

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I haven't counted all the shells posting strategies, but the information is accessible.

All I know is that 90% of my LS (possibly including myself) is gone after July if Square doesn't fix the problems with SoA that have been repeated ad nauseam here, and in most other topics.

You guys should check out my Guide here in General Discussion. Invitation to Plasm Farming. It may change your point of view.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

You guys should check out my Guide here in General Discussion. Invitation to Plasm Farming. It may change your point of view.

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I know how to farm plasm. I have a few delve weapons etc.too, but me having my gear isn't gonna keep all these other people playing the game.

That guide was well written, thoughtful and probably quite helpful to quite a few people. Thank you for writing that.

The problem is that it's a lot of hurdles to jump through. If you want to start on delve now, you have to do a whole bunch of crap that people who started a few weeks ago didn't have to do because the standard for DDS / mages changed that fast. Why would someone want to spend weeks / months getting geared up just to gain entry into something that other people got to walk right into the day it came out?

It's like people who missed the first day of high school having to start over at kindergarten.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

It's like people who missed the first day of high school having to start over at kindergarten.

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Well, it is and its not, its not exactly like people who were there at release for Adoulin or Delve got some stuff for free or something. We did all of the same stuff they basically have to do at some point in our time on this game, its just that when we did it, more people were doing it overall, now not as many people are, so its harder. Its more like if we went through all of the grades and were in 9th grade while others are just entering 1st or 2nd, its not really that they were screwed for not being to the 9th grade classes on time, they just weren't here before and have to work their way up. If they are smart enough, or in this case, skilled and lucky enough, they can skip through some of the stuff, and get things done faster than others, if they are not, they have to take their time, and in some cases, even fall behind and take longer. We did not get a free ride through this content, we were just already prepared, they were not, as such, they need to build for it, that is part of the problem, and that guide helps people do just that, prepare for what is ahead, rather than simply throwing themselves at it hoping they do well.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Well, it is and its not, its not exactly like people who were there at release for Adoulin or Delve got some stuff for free or something. We did all of the same stuff they basically have to do at some point in our time on this game, its just that when we did it, more people were doing it overall, now not as many people are, so its harder. Its more like if we went through all of the grades and were in 9th grade while others are just entering 1st or 2nd, its not really that they were screwed for not being to the 9th grade classes on time, they just weren't here before and have to work their way up. If they are smart enough, or in this case, skilled and lucky enough, they can skip through some of the stuff, and get things done faster than others, if they are not, they have to take their time, and in some cases, even fall behind and take longer. We did not get a free ride through this content, we were just already prepared, they were not, as such, they need to build for it, that is part of the problem, and that guide helps people do just that, prepare for what is ahead, rather than simply throwing themselves at it hoping they do well.

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Nah, a few weeks ago, I could get in outside NM groups and Plasm farm runs on sam with just +2 abbysea gear and a tp bonus GK. Now people want you to go farm all the reive / skirmish gear and weapons and then they still probably won't let you in on a DD job. Honestly, I see about one DD slot open a day in shouts right now and it takes one shout to fill it. At this point, if you can't lead a run, you better have some damn good gear. I actually see more people shouting (No DD JOBS please) a lot. Things are rough.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Nah, a few weeks ago, I could get in outside NM groups and Plasm farm runs on sam with just +2 abbysea gear and a tp bonus GK. Now people want you to go farm all the reive / skirmish gear and weapons and then they still probably won't let you in on a DD job. Honestly, I see about one DD slot open a day in shouts right now and it takes one shout to fill it. At this point, if you can't lead a run, you better have some damn good gear. I actually see more people shouting (No DD JOBS please) a lot. Things are rough.

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Not to offend you, but Delve isn't instanced - it can cater for few alliances inside at the same time. Toss out a shout (anyone is free to do so!) and see how many people are willing to join you. If you're not willing to do that, you'll have to wait in line for invite, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Milva

Not to offend you, but Delve isn't instanced - it can cater for few alliances inside at the same time. Toss out a shout (anyone is free to do so!) and see how many people are willing to join you. If you're not willing to do that, you'll have to wait in line for invite, I'm afraid.

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The reality is that most people cannot do that so they do stand around waiting for an invite. You can call them lazy or stupid or whatever suits your mood, but if they get tired of standing around and leave then it probably will hurt you more than them.

People who can't play the game (whether in actuality of just in perception) don't stay and there aren't enough new people coming in to compensate for that. And to be clear, I have mage jobs geared sufficiently to get me into groups. I am speaking about people in general. One mans "challenge" is another mans "Pain in the ass".

People always say " Well if you want X you gotta put in the work..." .

No, no you don't. Proving that they have good work ethic has never been a compelling reason to play a video game for the vast majority of people who play them.

SoA was a cash grab, FFXI is pretty much done and they expect you all to move to FFXIV like well behaved little sheep.

If you can't see it for what it is then you have nobody to blame but yourself, even the guy in charge of FFXI now is a XIV part timer..

Right now, if you don't have a group that's capable of tackling delve fracture mega bosses, I don't see how the game is very fun right now.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

The reality is that most people cannot do that so they do stand around waiting for an invite. You can call them lazy or stupid or whatever suits your mood, but if they get tired of standing around and leave then it probably will hurt you more than them.

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What is stopping them?

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

What is stopping them?

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They're shy, their stupid, their morally opposed, they just don't have time? I don't know why people work at Walmart or McDonald's instead of being brain surgeons and movie stars. They just do.

It doesn't matter why. You can't change them. You can only change the game. They need to find a middle ground to keep the movers and shakers happy as well as the hapless layabouts and everyone in between. They are far from that right now.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Everyone always focuses on killing faster, but slow and steady can sometimes win the race more easily. suicidal zergs are fun and usually work but finesse, which is often lost on today's players, can make some fights a less stressful experience.

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Slow and steady doesn't win the race when you have 6 formidable opponents that must be killed within 45 minutes. Ok, 5, Matamata doesn't count. I've seen a video now of a group killing all 6 bosses in 30 minutes (they did it 3x in a row). That 30 minutes does allow for the possibility that something might screw up, a key person dc, etc etc, and they might wipe once. 5 minutes to recover, and take another go.

As an Aegis/Ochain, I gotta acknowledge the fact that slow and steady is stupid. Having me in the alliance means I can laugh at Firaga V, but it doesn't mean *anything* for the rest of the alliance. All my presence means is that the healers are safe from a wipe, if that happens. SE doesn't give us the tools right now to do slow and steady.

Truthfully, it doesn't even mean that, it's probably easier to just wipe it up, since there's no group trying to claim off you in Delve, and everyone reraise than for the healers try to simultaneously raise the DD *and* keep me alive.

They made the great enmity update and broke it the very next update with the delve weapons.

With that patch, they effectively sent the playerbase the message: zerging is what you're supposed to be doing. We know hate is broken, and that's alright by us.

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GEO has one thing going for it which makes it useful, the fact that it can debuff some enemies that can't easily be debuffed any other way. I think the technical issues and the things that are being addressed by the next patch kind of overshadow the fact that GEO can actually be put to some reasonable use.

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Easily? Try "can't", period. It also provides unique debuffs, and in the case of mobs that an rdm can debuff, the effects stack. RDM merely enhances the value of GEO.

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Of all things, why did [GEO/RDM AF being released at 99] turn you off? Do you really want to walk all over a bunch of easy quests to get oyur job's trademark gear? Do you really want to spend all the time grinding to upgrade them before they beocme useful? Do you really want to do level 40-50 stuff in a level 99+ area?

Honestly, this move makes sense. if it wasn't unfair to everyone who hasn't already completed all the other job's AF quests and done the upgrades, i'd say they should all be changed to be like this. It's a little weird that the AF will be the higher tier of job armor for these jobs, but I'll take it if it means relevant gear with good stats.

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^ I agree here. Who wants a piece that's merely a macro piece? Some of RUN's AF may well be good tp pieces, or for tanking. I'd much rather that than the 10-15 most jobs either A) have no use for or B) merely use for split-second swaps.

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that some of you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Our LS only does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in our first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Or LS oh does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in outlet first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

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Good for you. For every one of you, there are 50 who just can't get in the groove. It may be Real life issues like a job or a family, it may be laziness, it may be that they have mechanical bees swarming around their heads. It doesn't matter. They just don't get it and the game needs them to get it.

If it makes you feel better, call them stupid or misguided or lazy or noobs or whatever makes your epeen rise, but just know that You are screwing yourself and everyone else by doing so.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Good for you. For every one of you, there are 50 who just can't get in the groove. It may be Real life issues like a job or a family, it may be laziness, it may be that they have mechanical bees swarming around their heads. It doesn't matter. They just don't get it and the game needs them to get it.

If it makes you feel better, call them stupid or misguided or lazy or noobs or whatever makes your epeen rise, but just know that You are screwing yourself and everyone else by doing so.

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I never called anyone misguided or lazy because they might have issues with irl stuff or can't play whatever. I said that to those who are talking about delve as if they know it like the back of their hand yet complain they can't even get an invite.

Huge difference compared to how you make me sound.

1 of me... Yeah real nice. I don't even like delve. And I'm sitting here trying to tell everyone that there's more to the game than this one topic everyone is just so caught up to death in.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

I never called anyone misguided or lazy because they might have issues with irl stuff or can't play whatever. I said that to those who are talking about delve as if they know it like the back of their hand yet complain they can't even get an invite.

Huge difference compared to how you make me sound.

1 of me... Yeah real nice. I don't even like delve. And I'm sitting here trying to tell everyone that there's more to the game than this one topic everyone is just so caught up to death in.

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Yeah, your attitude was real friendly like. I just made you sound like a bad guy...

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Yeah, your attitude was real friendly like. I just made you sound like a bad guy...

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You did indeed because I'm only talking to those who are being negative thinking Delve is the only thing that matters when it's not.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

You did indeed because I'm only talking to those who are being negative thinking Delve is the only thing that matters when it's not.

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Actually, it literally is. Seen the colonization rates lately? Seen the Campaign map lately?
How long has it been since your server lost the candy in besieged?

I know I'm going to get banned again for saying this, but a few people will see it.

The disconnect isn't between the good and bad players, it's between douchebags and the not good enough to play with douchebags, then there's the good enough but unwilling to play with douchebags.

There's 2 groups and only two that are doing delve on my server, they're populated with really good players and like 3-4 complete scum.

I might be the only one with integrity left, but people used to dislike people, and they didn't talk about it, then grit their teeth and go with them anyway just because.

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.

There are more gimps/noobs/clueless people with Oatixur in 1 month, than there ever was with verethragna over the 3 years it has been available.

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Originally Posted by Karah

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.

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They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them. I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Actually, it literally is. Seen the colonization rates lately? Seen the Campaign map lately?
How long has it been since your server lost the candy in besieged?

I know I'm going to get banned again for saying this, but a few people will see it.

The disconnect isn't between the good and bad players, it's between douchebags and the not good enough to play with douchebags, then there's the good enough but unwilling to play with douchebags.

There's 2 groups and only two that are doing delve on my server, they're populated with really good players and like 3-4 complete scum.

I might be the only one with integrity left, but people used to dislike people, and they didn't talk about it, then grit their teeth and go with them anyway just because.

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.

There are more gimps/noobs/clueless people with Oatixur in 1 month, than there ever was with verethragna over the 3 years it has been available.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...086#post449086

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them. I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

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I used to be able to pick from several different shells for dynamis, sky, sea, einherjar, znm, the list goes on in my time zone and go with the ones that had the rules / people that I liked based on just having red mage. No especially good gear. Just a willingness to show up and do my best until I got that gear. How many shells do you suppose are doing delve bosses on cerberus right now at all? I'll take a stab based on the shouts and say maybe 4 or 5 and all they want are R/E bards.

Let's just go crazy and say there are 40 of them though. What are the odds that
A) they want anything that most people have
B) they are in the correct time zone
C) they speak the right language
D) aren't going to be complete a-holes
?

Think about that and then ask yourself how that is good for a dying community.

There is an really well geared player on my server who has been shouting for an invite to tojil for 2 days now. For hours at a time. It's really friggin lame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them.

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Social linkshell =/= event linkshell, 99% of all event linkshells died, good riddance, social linkshells who cares.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

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In case you didn't notice, this content is being BLAZED through faster than abyssea ever was. It's only taken a couple weeks and Tojil is beaten 100 times per day. it took about a year to make most people soloing with pocket whms everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...086#post449086

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I literally had not seen this, thank you for pointing it out, I had no interest in reading that thread, and it had gone unnoticed. However, it being a great post, it's a few months too late. It's all irrelevant now that Delve wins are being bought and sold daily. It will inevitably fail even harder to make any dent.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

They're shy, their stupid, their morally opposed, they just don't have time? I don't know why people work at Walmart or McDonald's instead of being brain surgeons and movie stars. They just do.

It doesn't matter why. You can't change them. You can only change the game. They need to find a middle ground to keep the movers and shakers happy as well as the hapless layabouts and everyone in between. They are far from that right now.

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Because everyone can be a brain surgeon or movie star.... rolls eyes.... isn't it obvious? because everyone is not the same, we all have our reasons for not wanting to do any event or thing. Maybe they don't find it fun? Maybe they can't lead an alliance to do it? Maybe it's because they don't have the right jobs to do delve bosses? Maybe it's because they don't want to be locked into a job they don't enjoy just to get equipment for the job they do enjoy?

It's like I like PUP, but I can't do any of the fun stuff I want on PUP, I am constantly gearing PUP by using other jobs. Why can't I use PUP to gear PUP? There could be any number of reasons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that some of you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Our LS only does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in our first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

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You do know that you only need to be in zone to enter a Delve fracture right? and that only the leader needs to be at the enter point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by svengalis

You do know that you only need to be in zone to enter a Delve fracture right? and that only the leader needs to be at the enter point?

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Yeah did you read carefully? Morier basalt field, since no one barely does reives, there is no waypoint therefore we had fight our way through to get there. 1 leader can't kill entire relieve solo.

Ulti, you either took a route that was very poorly planed out, or something was wrong there. There is a path from Adoulin to the entrance to Morimar's Fracture zone, so you can get there from Adoulin without a single Reive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Because everyone can be a brain surgeon or movie star.... rolls eyes.... isn't it obvious? because everyone is not the same, we all have our reasons for not wanting to do any event or thing. Maybe they don't find it fun? Maybe they can't lead an alliance to do it? Maybe it's because they don't have the right jobs to do delve bosses? Maybe it's because they don't want to be locked into a job they don't enjoy just to get equipment for the job they do enjoy?

It's like I like PUP, but I can't do any of the fun stuff I want on PUP, I am constantly gearing PUP by using other jobs. Why can't I use PUP to gear PUP? There could be any number of reasons.

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You misunderstood the context.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I used to be able to pick from several different shells for dynamis, sky, sea, einherjar, znm, the list goes on in my time zone and go with the ones that had the rules / people that I liked based on just having red mage. No especially good gear. Just a willingness to show up and do my best until I got that gear. How many shells do you suppose are doing delve bosses on cerberus right now at all? I'll take a stab based on the shouts and say maybe 4 or 5 and all they want are R/E bards.

Let's just go crazy and say there are 40 of them though. What are the odds that
A) they want anything that most people have
B) they are in the correct time zone
C) they speak the right language
D) aren't going to be complete a-holes
?

Think about that and then ask yourself how that is good for a dying community.

There is an really well geared player on my server who has been shouting for an invite to tojil for 2 days now. For hours at a time. It's really friggin lame.

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I agree that it may not be the best approach for a dwindling playerbase, but we ARE just talking about three fights in an entire expansion. The fault doesn't lie with creating these particular fights, which are refreshingly challenging. The fault lies with SE for not introducing enough content at varying levels and playstyle, which they are apparently going to rectify in the next two patches according to their dev notes.

On Lakshmi right now there are at least 4 or 5 NA LS's working on Fracture Bosses and likely 5+ JP LS's as well (probably more on the JP end). Collectively, that's probably around 200-300+ players, which is not an insignificant percentage of the server population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karah

Social linkshell =/= event linkshell, 99% of all event linkshells died, good riddance, social linkshells who cares.

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I didn't mean social linkshells, I meant event linkshells. Your 99% number is supremely exaggerated. Even in Abyssea's heyday, there were many LS's who went in as an ally, broke up in groups, and farmed zones efficiently. I will agree that some shells likely disintegrated, and the overall number probably dipped shortly after RR/Minikin was released. But many survived and many sprang up anew from 2011-2013 as events such as Voidwatch, Legion, Odin v.2, and ADL popped up. From the way you recount history, people insta-dropped their pearls as soon as one or two single add-ons came out. But a lot of shells adapted and focused on the mobs that were actually somewhat challenging up until the third and final add-on + Shinryu. Voidwatch began shortly thereafter, and that began a stream of 18+ player events.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karah

In case you didn't notice, this content is being BLAZED through faster than abyssea ever was. It's only taken a couple weeks and Tojil is beaten 100 times per day. it took about a year to make most people soloing with pocket whms everywhere.

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We are talking about two different things. Three 45-minute fights versus nine zones full of NM's and quests. Obviously the new fights can be blazed through, but I just meant can't be dual-boxed.