NEO Nyzul 2.0

Its fairly simple, as I said, there are smart, logical rules, and stupid, illogical rules. "No botting, no flee hacking, no creating gear out of thin air." these are logical, in real life "No killing, no fighting, no stealing" again, logical. "No improving our game in places we refuse to make changes due to the fact we do not wish to change old and out dated systems." This, is illogical, improvement is good, never bad, thats why it is called improvement. In real life, you have "You can not marry someone you love because to bad for you, they have a penis just like you do" again, illogical, some rules are smart, some are not. Yes, I have every reason and right to my opinion on these rules. And I will openly break any rule of which has no true reason to exist.

To say I cannot improve means I am supposed to leave it in a worse state, however this is foolish, that is to say rather than put in extra support on a building that is slowly falling apart, I should just let it fall and break into lil tiny pieces. Using mugging someone as an example is stupid, mugging someone I am taking something they earned away from them, and giving it to myself. I am not asking take macros away from Xbox & PS2 players, and then give all the PC players all 18 slots to ourselves >:D no, I am saying I want everyone, yes, everyone, to have more spots. Now, this is something SE does not want to do, like Enmity, (which you failed to see my point on) they see it as an old system they want to leave alone. That is bad, you should fix problems, not let them go and get worse. Should I leave myself without extra spots for macros because PS2 and Xbox players cant have it? No, just like if me & a friend go buy 2 icecream cones and they drop theirs, I'm not just gonna throw mine on the ground and say "whoops" and move on, I already licked mine so I doubt you want to do anything like share it or take my cone, so Imma eat mine. I cant give you more spots, if I could, rest assured I would, but I cant, I can give myself more though, and Ill be damned if Imma play by some rules that make no sense so if anything SE will try to shut us up with a lame excuse like...

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We are unable to give you more macro spaces due to limitations brought on by the Playstation 2s unable to run that many lines of code in a short time.

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You can play by your flawed rules in the reality that your doing the right thing. I will be enjoying my game how it should be, improved, in the real world where sometimes rules, are bad, and those rules, can, and should be broken, and broken things, are improved upon.

Edit:Sorry, I feel obligated to reply to people when I feel they don't understand something I say and when they seem ignorant to the truth of things, I was hoping you would understand my words and leave it alone rather than reply in a manner that I find stupid and or insulting.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

Please find were i said i never used 3rd party. i do know ive done every run without a flee bot though.

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I know all the idiots from BG (like you) that comes HERE and the DEVs think "flee hacks" when I say "you cannot win without cheating". But no, I explicitely explained that I was targetting "seing through walls" and "changing lamp names to win 100% as well as to know how many lamps there are". So you are admitting you cheated you nyzul gear, but yet you come to the thread throwing random "you suck, I'm back for 2 months and I already have it", so what was your point again ? Mr Troll. I see you already reported the thread into the internet police lol. Point is you are agreing with me so stop arguing against. The thread might end up fixing the lack of windower for the game or at the very least fixing nyzul which we all would like.


If the devs don't clearly answer on the 2 cheats I explained above ( there are probably others like seeing mobs from very far), we will all conclude that this event is expected to be cleared with windower and dat mods.

"No improving our game in places we refuse to make changes due to the fact we do not wish to change old and out dated systems."

but I cant, I can give myself more though, and Ill be damned if Imma play by some rules that make no sense so if anything SE will try to shut us up with a lame excuse like...

More lame excuses indeed. This is you demanding something and then throwing a hissy fit when you dont get your way. Then you take it a step further and just take what you feel you are owed. When in fact you take away from the integrity of the game. Untill such time that everyone has access to 16 line macros. anyone not using 6 line macros would infact be cheating. You do not live in some magical grey area where rules you dont like dont apply to you.

When did this thread go from a conversation about nyzul, to Gimpswhowanttonerfeverythingbuttheirjobs v. Sanepeople?

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Originally Posted by user201108211515

This is you demanding something and then throwing a hissy fit when you dont get your way. Then you take it a step further and just take what you feel you are owed.

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I feel everyone is owed content and interface that is equal to the money we are putting into this game, we pay for it each month, and so far we keep getting told they will fix nothing, add small things that hardly matter because of things like this thread. A thread to say "Hey look SE, this shit ain't working!" because content you cannot complete might as well not exist, its like putting in a boss fight you literally cant win, whats the point? You want me to die a bunch just to prove a point? But thats what they did, I don't like it, I complain about it, and I wont cheat to beat it because I don't care, Ill give them time. Macros however, are 10 years old, and need fixed, you don't leave a broken down car that can drive some, but only at 30miles a hour and with 2 flat tires in your drive way, you get that shit fixed, you take a few weeks or months? Thats understandable, but 10 years? Come on, at that point you just say fuck it and you know your not fixing it.

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When in fact you take away from the integrity of the game. Untill such time that everyone has access to 16 line macros. anyone not using 6 line macros would infact be cheating. You do not live in some magical grey area where rules you dont like dont apply to you.

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No, I don't, rules apply to me just as much as you, and I admit yes, I am doing something you can't, so yes, by your meaning I guess I'm cheating. You want to call fixing a 10 year old problem with the game cheating, do it, its still fixing it. You don't seem to get it, these rules are here to stop botting, .dat cheating, and yes, some of the shit found in windower plug-ins. But I am sure it was never meant to block players from fixing up something in this game. Thats just the player base helping to fix some of the problems the game has, working together with SE in a way to help them, and help ourselves. I don't do anything I think of as cheating in this game, I play it the same as everyone else, as I said, I removed everything from Windower. It looks like yours and everyone else's FFXI normally does, my only difference is, instead of having my macros limited to 6 lines, its got 1 line that says to look in a folder on my PC, and do that, which has 16 lines of text saying what my macro should, but cant.

When you convince SE to stop ignoring the player base for 10 years about a simple problem that would probably take little effort to fix other than it would make people playing have to redo some macros (Oh noes I have to redo some macros because they made them better D:) Ill stop "cheating", till then, get off everyones back. Cheating is breaking a rule to a game, in most cases a bad thing when it is detrimental to the other players, this isn't, its advantageous to some, and meaningless to others, which means it isn't hurting you, it is only helping me. If you have 6, and I have 6, then someone walks over and gives me 10, I have 16, this does not take away from your 6. You still have 6, thus you are not hurt, however I have 16, I am assisted. When this game becomes PvP savvy, yes, I will be cheating because I will have a competitive advantage, (not really because the majority of macros are 100% worthless in PvP due to gear swap restrictions) till then, me having a better macro setup is no different than saying you use macros, some people don't know how to use macros, so until you teach every player on this game to use them, don't use them, its cheating!



And just to say, as I said before, you cannot say I suck at a game or I am unskilled because I choose to improve my performance or my interface of a game. You can call me lazy, that would be the correct term I think for someone who would rather only hit 1 button instead of 3, or you can call them efficient, which ever you choose. The fact I wish to use a better system doesn't mean I'm worse at the game, simply that I do something that makes me do less work to do simple actions, such as weapon skill, you want me to get 100% TP, hit 3 macros, hit 2 buttons to WS, and then hit 3 more to go back to TPing, do you realize how stupid that is and sounds?

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Originally Posted by Zerich

When did this thread go from a conversation about nyzul, to Gimps/who/want/to/nerf/everything/but/their/jobs v. Sane/people?

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(Edited quote so it doesn't make my head hurt trying to read it ;>_>)
I think it was page 7 post 70, seemed to be when the arguing over cheating started if thats what you meant, just job nerfing was about pages 6~7 but didn't last very long.

Banning cheaters in nyzul will never happen except for flee hacks. Lamp name changing is undetectable, and fillmode is undetectable. So the hypothesis of "salvage ban"-like mass bannings can't possibly happen. Also the discussion derailed a bit on windower and windower macro. I think they are a good thing that the game should have had for long BUT this clearly doesn't affect Neo Nyzul 2.0, because as I explained most problems were changing lamp names (doesn't require windower but only a text editor..) and fillmode (does require windower).

To the DEVS reading the thread, that are not convinced people cheat their way to Floor 100 I reiterate my suggestion :

Analyze all F100 winning runs, and out of all those run examine the number of runs that had a "lamp order" objective. Out of all those run, calculate the proportion where people went 1/1 on guessing the correct order. I'll promise I'll shut up if you don't find out 100%. That means two things

* Either guessing all "lamp order" floors on the first time is required to win a NEO-Nyzul 2.0, in which case you all should be fired for suggesting such a trash event.
* Either everyone cheats.

Up to you to guess which it is, I think it's the second explanation ^^

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Originally Posted by scaevola

I encourage everyone saying Nyzul's fine, like I did Kaerin several weeks ago when she claimed a WAR could hit Floor 100 solo with full buffs, to post videos of their dat-swapless, fillmode-less, multiple-attempts-to-figure-out-lamp-order Floor 100 clears that they're getting enough to be 15/15 on gear like six weeks ago.

Still waiting, Kaerin! (b^^)b

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I never said I would post a video, and there's no need to, math will tell you all you need to know.

The truth is if you can clear floors with an average time of 2 minutes, this gives you a 15 floor per run average, you only need to average 6.6 floors per jump to reach 100 and win. Any half decent group will easily meet that standard. Considering the average is 5.5, this is actually just a bit above average, but it will really only happen maybe 5-10% of the time. But seriously, even at 5-10% win rate, or you can still get this gear. That's still at least 1 piece of very good gear every other week, that only requires 30~ min of effort every day.

If you can push your average floors from 15 to 16-17, which is just under 2 min per floor average, which is amazingly easy to do, you will get that one piece of gear every week. By FFXI standards, that's absolutely amazing, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for not trying to get it.

And seriously, people are still complaining about windower? Didn't SE just come out and say they were redesigning and completely overhauling the entire PC user interface for the game and letting people basically make windower plug ins that will function inside the actual game without windower?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Banning cheaters in nyzul will never happen except for flee hacks. Lamp name changing is undetectable, and fillmode is undetectable. So the hypothesis of "salvage ban"-like mass bannings can't possibly happen. Also the discussion derailed a bit on windower and windower macro. I think they are a good thing that the game should have had for long BUT this clearly doesn't affect Neo Nyzul 2.0, because as I explained most problems were changing lamp names (doesn't require windower but only a text editor..) and fillmode (does require windower).

To the DEVS reading the thread, that are not convinced people cheat their way to Floor 100 I reiterate my suggestion :

Analyze all F100 winning runs, and out of all those run examine the number of runs that had a "lamp order" objective. Out of all those run, calculate the proportion where people went 1/1 on guessing the correct order. I'll promise I'll shut up if you don't find out 100%. That means two things

* Either guessing all "lamp order" floors on the first time is required to win a NEO-Nyzul 2.0, in which case you all should be fired for suggesting such a trash event.
* Either everyone cheats.

Up to you to guess which it is, I think it's the second explanation ^^

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Actually I wouldn't say 100%, there are actually lucky times, or if everyone is cheating, people can be stupid and fuck it up, not that it would or wouldn't break the run just that I would say you might want to make that an 80~100% or so, seeing as that is still incredibly unlikely.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

I never said I would post a video, and there's no need to, math will tell you all you need to know.

The truth is if you can clear floors with an average time of 2 minutes, this gives you a 15 floor per run average, you only need to average 6.6 floors per jump to reach 100 and win. Any half decent group will easily meet that standard. Considering the average is 5.5, this is actually just a bit above average, but it will really only happen maybe 5-10% of the time. But seriously, even at 5-10% win rate, or you can still get this gear. That's still at least 1 piece of very good gear every other week, that only requires 30~ min of effort every day.

If you can push your average floors from 15 to 16-17, which is just under 2 min per floor average, which is amazingly easy to do, you will get that one piece of gear every week. By FFXI standards, that's absolutely amazing, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for not trying to get it.

And seriously, people are still complaining about windower? Didn't SE just come out and say they were redesigning and completely overhauling the entire PC user interface for the game and letting people basically make windower plug ins that will function inside the actual game without windower?

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I wouldn't know, I never saw it, but if so thats cool, so long as they don't screw it up it might be the 1st thing SE has done smart since making Abyssea have Effort=Reward ^_^

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I know all the idiots from BG (like you) that comes HERE

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Give it up. You have as much admitted on two separate occasions that you read BG for information, so you gain no cool points for comments like these.

They are idiots because they come here explaining us that they got their gear cheatless. At least Gokku admitted otherwise but he still trolled a good 2 pages arguing against anyone pointing out the cheaters. If you cheat I don't care, you cannot remove cheats from the game. In Nyzul it's different than cheating for say, macroing faster, because this time you have no other alternative than doing it. I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.

again.. the game is not broken just cauz you say it is. Keep lien to your self about the situation I dont really care. It wont change the fact that you cheat to win. No ammount of essays full of excuses you write will change the fact that you cheat at an easy game. You have no real reasons to cheat other then you lack the skill to play the game by the rules. Pushing buttons is hard. Pushing 1 button is easy mode.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

They are idiots because they come here explaining us that they got their gear cheatless. At least Gokku admitted otherwise but he still trolled a good 2 pages arguing against anyone pointing out the cheaters. If you cheat I don't care, you cannot remove cheats from the game. In Nyzul it's different than cheating for say, macroing faster, because this time you have no other alternative than doing it. I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.

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I admit the event is badly designed, although I see the original intent. Instead of 1-5% gear drop rates, they designed an event where you only have a 1-5% of actually reaching the end floor, but in which the gear "drops" 100% of the time. Unfortunately, the execution is horrible because there are holdovers from Nyzul 1.0 that are archaically designed, such as lamp floors. Then you have mobs that have Terror/Stun moves with long duration, which are incredibly frustrating in a 30-minute event.

Not to mention lobby time counts against you, while it doesn't in legion.

They designed it approximately when it was out on the test server, but since the test server is useless for testing battle content, noone guessed so. They were aware of it so they released it and waited to see how many people were succesful before an ajustement. Now the last dev post seems to imply that they are satisfied with the amount of people getting gear. I bet they are even considering too many people are getting the gear. That's what I'll reproach them ; not considering an event from the content point of view but the balance point of view . If you only consider the amount of people actually reaching F100, then it means you are satified with it, in other world you are ok with cheating. I don't think you constumer are going to forgive you this one.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

lol... seriously?

For my comments we'll be using some math about nyzul and your probability to reach floor 100 based on how many floors your group can clear on average that can be found right here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109...=1#post5097920

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

Also: If you can clear 18 floors, you'll be on 100 52% of the time, 19 floors pushes it to 72%. Based on how good your group is at Nyzul directly impacts your ability to reach 100. Based on this you can see that very good groups will be able to finish much faster than average groups. Saying anyone with the gear is obviously a cheater just shows how misinformed about the event you are, and maybe even how bad at FFXI you are. Have you even gotten your friends together and done a few runs and seen what your average floor clears will amount to?

EDIT: Is there any particular reason you make 4 posts instead of multi quoting or editing your post to include replies to different things? Are you trying to up your post count a lot or what?

EDIT #2: @peechan
Just came across this video of some gimp JPs beating neo nyzul in 20 minutes without cheating!
http://nicoviewer.net/sm17623114

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I like your math but it doesnt support the facts, and the facts are NIUR is much more random. On floors were its lamp code, or kill every monster, or its a boss with healing magic restricted, etc, bad luck puts a serious negative impact into the equation. Your math doesnt account for this. The math you describe is that of a vacuum, now I did say not evberyone 15/15 cheated, I just said alot of people 5/5+ cheated. And the truth is in the pudding, I'm sure you've read the ffxi forums and seen many a player that has admitted to having cleared 100 by cheating in some form or another, and these players are top tier players, so you do the math and tell me then what I'm supposed to think. Like I said, and I'm not trying to be persoanal, but alot of people cheated to get their 100 gear, and your math is way off because it only accounts for a perfect environment, and NIUR is anything but.

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The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

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He's factoring in the TPA / hacks when he says ". If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish". 16 floors is 112 seconds per floor, not accounting for lobby time nor for the floor 100 boss battle. 17 floors is 105 seconds average, 18 floors is 99s. What dramatically cuts down on the floor clear time is knowing the exact order of the lamps, knowing which enemy is the enemy leader or specific enemy, and knowing all this from the floor entry point. Being able to see exactly where that enemy leader / specific enemy is or where the lamps are from the very beginning is what allows you to clear so many floors so fast. It removes the random floor layout and the wasted time spent searching in far away corners. Its exactly how those people got so many Nyzule Isle 100 items. Double embrava, double body boosts and movement *gear* *cough* are all well and good, but none of them provide the advantage that removing the unknown does.

A group of 6 well geared skilled players, all on XBOX's might make it to 100 occasionally, given their lucky enough with floor jumps to only need to clear 13~14 floors, a little over 2min average per floor, which is entirety possible.

This event was designed for players to farm floor 60 and 80 for gear, and to use floor 100 as the carrot to keep you playing. As someone above mentioned, all SE did was move the RNG from the treasure box so the floor advancement. The overall gear acquisition rate is designed to be the same. Only difference is no amount of text modifications will effect what appears in your treasure coffer.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I mean, windower macro are barely a cheat because you can do 2 macro about as efficiently, it's just slightly more annoying, but this time it's hit or miss. It proves that the event is very badly designed.

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The built-in macros are slow to execute and you can't just mash your gear-swaps since you'd cancel one macro half-way through its swaps as you press the next. So I'd argue even windower macros are a level above what you can do in the game in addition to the lack of 6-line limit.

Becomes extremely noticable when I play my SCH since you have 8 JA macros per Arts to worry about, and hitting all the gear-swap macros to accomodate each one pre and mid-cast without cancelling each other out in the process.

Actually that is not true, at least for the xbox, been ages since i played on ps2, you can execute gearswap macros in rapid succession, the only time you have to worry about canceling is if you tie a JA into the gear swap macro if that is what you are referring to then never mind.

In that case yeah windower allows you to quickly change gear and still execute ja's without interruption however for the really complex if then type stuff only spell cast really covers that aspect and is the real advantage windower has over in game macros.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I don't think you constumer are going to forgive you this one.

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The best part about this thread is that pchan is arguing against cheating and third party tools with a holier than thou attitude. But then if you follow the link in his sig about pDIF, you can see he gathered a lot of data for the things he said there, using a third party tool called a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

I like your math but it doesnt support the facts, and the facts are NIUR is much more random.

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That's right, its really random, but the average will be what the math says. Stop argueing against the idea of averages, you're just making yourself look foolish.

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Originally Posted by saevel

He's factoring in the TPA / hacks when he says ". If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish".

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Actually I'm not, hackers can do 25+ floors easy, and basically have a 100% win rate. 16-17 is where decent not hacking groups fall. Learn to read the things I say before you comment on them.

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Originally Posted by saevel

16 floors is 112 seconds per floor, not accounting for lobby time nor for the floor 100 boss battle. 17 floors is 105 seconds average, 18 floors is 99s.

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A minute and a half is a LONG TIME. It's very easy to have an average floor clear time in this range.

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Originally Posted by saevel

What dramatically cuts down on the floor clear time is knowing the exact order of the lamps,

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Order floors don't actually happen all that often, for me it was 1 order floor every other run. Stop complaining about them like they happen 3-4 times every run and instantly make you lose. Use skype/vent/whatever and you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by saevel

knowing which enemy is the enemy leader or specific enemy, and knowing all this from the floor entry point. Being able to see exactly where that enemy leader / specific enemy is or where the lamps are from the very beginning is what allows you to clear so many floors so fast. It removes the random floor layout and the wasted time spent searching in far away corners.

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Ap radar is cheating and I agree with you, but its not required to reach the 16-17 floor average.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Its exactly how those people got so many Nyzule Isle 100 items. Double embrava, double body boosts and movement *gear* *cough* are all well and good, but none of them provide the advantage that removing the unknown does.

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You're retarded if you think everyone with nyzul f100 gear cheats. Did you not see the video I posted of the JP who doesnt cheat and is terrible and has a bunch of it and wins nyzul in under 20 min?

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Originally Posted by saevel

A group of 6 well geared skilled players, all on XBOX's might make it to 100 occasionally,

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Which is the way SE designed it to be, occasionally, time sinks, stuff to keep doing, etc. Cheats give you a 100% win rate, they're not required to win.

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Originally Posted by saevel

given their lucky enough with floor jumps to only need to clear 13~14 floors, a little over 2min average per floor, which is entirety possible.

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Do you even know what an average is? 13-14 floors per run is where full perle DDs get. You should work on your other gear, your groups gear, and your ability to work together if you can only get 13 floors.

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Originally Posted by saevel

This event was designed for players to farm floor 60 and 80 for gear, and to use floor 100 as the carrot to keep you playing.

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It was designed so competent players who are good at FFXI could get 100 gear, and scrubs would be locked out of it. Unfortunatly SE is bad at implementing this sort of content as cheaters always have a huge advantage. It's no different than kings before Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

The best part about this thread is that pchan is arguing against cheating and third party tools with a holier than thou attitude. But then if you follow the link in his sig about pDIF, you can see he gathered a lot of data for the things he said there, using a third party tool called a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?
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the best part about your posts is that you cant read?

wish just gonna state 25 floors is pretty damn hard to pull even with cheats, most close wins we have are either in the 20-22 range or 19-20 with shit floors. but even then there are some run killer floors like, mamool boss with 4 2handed DDs and WS's locked on the floor as he spams status fuckga = run killer , or more 1 mindpurge soulfucker floor , or just shitty shitty gangbang floors.

shit happens even the best groups are at about 70ish% clear rate total.

the 2nd biggest issue with NI2.0 is it has almost 0 replay value, if they added linen pouches as a turn in for plat's my static would be kicking down doors to get people to log in for runs, but as it stands now we got our gear got our ls members some gear and havent gone back.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Which is the way SE designed it to be, occasionally, time sinks, stuff to keep doing, etc.

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Working as intended doesn't make it right. I don't know about anyone else, but it's not only the implementation I have issues with. It's the intentions.

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It was designed so competent players who are good at FFXI could get 100 gear, and scrubs would be locked out of it.

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It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats? I know you say "clear floors in X seconds and jump up Y floors at a time." Where's the gear threshold? What do I NEED to be ready? Where does Neo-Nyzul 100 stand in the FFXI progression? Does it come after Abyssea? VW? Legion? What level R/M/E do I need if any? Hopefully you'll offer more than "just don't suck." Sadly too many people respond that way and it makes it harder for the rest of us to step up to where we want to be.

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Unfortunately SE is bad at implementing this sort of content as cheaters always have a huge advantage. It's no different than kings before Abyssea.

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Truer words were never spoken.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats? I know you say "clear floors in X seconds and jump up Y floors at a time." Where's the gear threshold? What do I NEED to be ready? Where does Neo-Nyzul 100 stand in the FFXI progression? Does it come after Abyssea? VW? Legion? What level R/M/E do I need if any? Hopefully you'll offer more than "just don't suck." Sadly too many people respond that way and it makes it harder for the rest of us to step up to where we want to be.

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I don't think it was ever meant to be cleared on a consistent basis, unless by consistant you mean 1-3x a week IE they want you to NOT get to floor 100 every time or even 1/2 the time for that matter. Why do you think they added the KI you get to exchange for a piece of gear EVERY time you actually clear f100?

As for weapons, friends who do it have (relic99/empy90-99)DDx4, 2sch's. they had a good win rate though and have gotten all f100 items now.
progression: after abyssea & VW, no one has done enough Legion to get any killer augment hexed gear so definately not after that.

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It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats?

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The "measuring stick" is you read BG web forums and follow their guides on how to modify your client. The content is designed to not be cleared except in exceeding rate circumstances (lucky jumps and floors). BGers have discovered a way around SE's RNG based difficulty, they maximize their floor count by minimizing the time per floor. They do that by removing the unknown element so that you can immediately clear the floor the moment you enter it rather then running around looking for lamps / that single ITG monster in the pack with the same name as the rest.

This content is not gear biased, you can have the absolute best gear and be amazingly *skilled* *cough* yet be on 360's and not have a snowballs chance in hell of seeing floor 100. Not to say it's impossible, but you'll fail 8~10 times for every time you succeed. Yet a group of weenies who've modified their client can get a 25~30% clear rate. If their experienced in nyzule runs then they can get a 50% clear rate. If their experienced and use TPAs they can get a 80%+ clear rate.

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Originally Posted by Gokku

wish just gonna state 25 floors is pretty damn hard to pull.

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My record is 28 before winning. w

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Originally Posted by Camiie

It seems like one has to be a bit more than simply competent to clear this content. Really what is the measuring stick to get to floor 100 on as consistent a basis as possible without cheats?

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My group was 2x SCH 2x WAR and whoever in my LS/friends list wanted to come fill in the last 2 slots. We had COR, SAM, BLU, MNK, THF, DNC lots of random different stuff in the last spots.
SCHs had 480~ enhancing skill (this is actually gimp, 500 is what you should have, lol)
WARs had this: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217122 first 2 runs.
WS sets starting run 2, Avant legs+1 though: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217120 and slightly different stuff for fell cleave.
my TP set starting run 3: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/254511
other WAR starting run 3: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/255456 cause Valk body is hard to get, but she has it now, so its all good.
Other people didn't matter cause we didn't really need them honestly.

EDIT: Oh, my Ukon was 99, other WARs was 90.

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Originally Posted by saevel

This content is not gear biased, you can have the absolute best gear and be amazingly *skilled* *cough* yet be on 360's and not have a snowballs chance in hell of seeing floor 100. Not to say it's impossible, but you'll fail 8~10 times for every time you succeed.

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Failing 8-10 times for every time you succeed is still fine, thats a better 'gearing up' rate than if you did old kings+salvage+einherjar every chance you could with an LS at 75. At this point, admitting you could win 10% of time, and continuing to complain is counter productive for you. You could be 15/15 by the time it gets changed, even if SE announced they were going to change it today.

And yes, it's gear based. Better gear = better kill speed = higher average floor jump per run. Even voice chat increases floor jumps by at least 1. Everything you can do to increase the average amount of floors you can clear per run with this event will help tremendously. Skipping any 1 thing will hurt you as a group. For instance, you should make sure everyone has run speed shoes, and knows how to put them on/take them off to remove engaging/disengaging animation, as that is also a huge time saver, and this is just 1 example outside the norm of 'hitting harder' where having good gear really helps.

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Originally Posted by saevel

maximize floor count by minimizing the time per floor.

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This is how you win.
Whatever means you deem acceptable to accomplish this goal is on you, I dont really care either way. I'm just pointing out its entirely possible to do it without any cheats, I even did it with bad jobs a few times. Cheating just makes you finish faster at the risk of your account. Without cheating the best groups will still have a 30-50% win rate, and decent groups will have a 10-30% win rate. If your group can't hack it, read the BG thread, and ask for advise, it's really not hard once you have decent gear and learn a lot of the tricks for reducing time on floors, like leaving a SCH at the rune, using fell cleave, double body boost+regen+phalanx so no one needs healing, run fast shoes and the ability to macro them on/off to remove engage/disengage animation, setting specific lamp orders before entering, using voice chat programs, using good attack food, etc. Everything you can do to decrease your time spent on floors is useful, even if its only 1 second.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

a parser, which requires using windower to use. Hypocrite much?

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No you can even run a parser on the Test server, lol...

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

No you can even run a parser on the Test server, lol...

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So you're admitting to using a third party program now? Thats not much of a denial on your part.

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?

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You also admitted to using a parser, which is a third party program and against the TOS as much as everything you're advocating so strongly against, take your double standard and get lost moron.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Yeah I admit watching youtube while playing FFXI, is that a problem ? Go back to clearing 28 floor without cheat moron. Are the devs that naive ?

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I wouldn't be so hasty as to call someone who's cleared this content a moron.

Sadly my friend and I don't really have anyone to do Nyzul Uncharted with at the current time. My friend might have to level SCH, then we'll have to hope good people are looking for a BLU + SCH, since I don't have high hopes for a good turnout via Jeuno shouts.

actually jeuno shouts will get you a ton of tells its a matter of shifting though the trash players finding the good ones setting up times and everyone showing , best bet get 3 schs and 8 DD total take them first come first serve for whos on time with the date set post shouting.

Honestly though, those who complained about Neo Nyzul, have you ever even try to do it a few times with proper setup/strat and see how many floor you can clear? By proper setup I mean using jobs like DRKx4 SCH x2, powder boot rotate, double body boost/sprinter, and no death nor d/c in entire run etc. Or you just randomly come here and complained because it seems impossible? With proper setup/gear/skill and aggressive use with powder boots, it is still possible to clear 16 floor with 0 3rd pt tool, just that majority of player would rather use it since 80% of player base already been using windower, so turning on fillmode is just something ppl can do easily without crossing another line.

And those talks about cheats is pretty hilarious, ppl been *cheating* in FFXI all the time, ppl *cheat* in VW, *cheat* in dyna, *cheat* in abby, I'm not even talking about old HNM camping/botting. Parser, extended macro, spell cast, unless you only pt with maybe 3 ppl in this game, it's near impossible to avoid pt with someone who *cheats* in every single event including easiest abby. Those who claim they don't cheat and don't use 3rd pt tool, can you also claim that you never pt with another player that uses windower?

So why suddenly double standard? Fillmode is just same thing as extended macro and parser, nothing more, nothing less. However compare with other events from 75 to nowadays(which ppl still use cheat in), Nyzul uncharted certainly has best reward/effort ratio, look at how many ppl 15/15 already, no other event in this game gives gear this fast except maybe Abby, which ppl still cheat with extended macro regardless.

Even if you're going suggest there's no difference between extended macros/spellcast, which don't actually let you do anything you couldn't already, and fillmode/dat-swapping, which very much do*, merely acknowledging that stuff like fillmode and dat-swapping is straight-up cheating doesn't mean the people saying so in this thread begrudge the people using them; it's just setting up the premise of the main point of all these Nyzul threads: if people can't or won't clear Nyzul without cheating, there is something wrong with Nyzul.


*and there may indeed not be a difference; certainly I'm not interested in arguing about it

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Originally Posted by Afania

Honestly though, those who complained about Neo Nyzul, have you ever even try to do it a few times with proper setup/strat and see how many floor you can clear? By proper setup I mean using jobs like DRKx4 SCH x2, powder boot rotate, double body boost/sprinter, and no death nor d/c in entire run etc. Or you just randomly come here and complained because it seems impossible? With proper setup/gear/skill and aggressive use with powder boots, it is still possible to clear 16 floor with 0 3rd pt tool, just that majority of player would rather use it since 80% of player base already been using windower, so turning on fillmode is just something ppl can do easily without crossing another line.

And those talks about cheats is pretty hilarious, ppl been *cheating* in FFXI all the time, ppl *cheat* in VW, *cheat* in dyna, *cheat* in abby, I'm not even talking about old HNM camping/botting. Parser, extended macro, spell cast, unless you only pt with maybe 3 ppl in this game, it's near impossible to avoid pt with someone who *cheats* in every single event including easiest abby. Those who claim they don't cheat and don't use 3rd pt tool, can you also claim that you never pt with another player that uses windower?

So why suddenly double standard? Fillmode is just same thing as extended macro and parser, nothing more, nothing less. However compare with other events from 75 to nowadays(which ppl still use cheat in), Nyzul uncharted certainly has best reward/effort ratio, look at how many ppl 15/15 already, no other event in this game gives gear this fast except maybe Abby, which ppl still cheat with extended macro regardless.

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As it's been stated, it requires alot of luck, but you also need skill at some point, peopel having bad luck are getting mad. frusration is not uncommon.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

As it's been stated, it requires alot of luck, but you also need skill at some point, peopel having bad luck are getting mad. frusration is not uncommon.

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*Luck* is an understatement. It's all time dependent, you get in order poles and not only must you determine how many poles there are but then sift through multiple attempts to find the correct sequence. You get specified enemy, you must then run around /checking the mobs to find the ~1~ that is ITG. Enemy leader isn't that hard but you still must run around looking for them. All at once poles you must run around look for, and kill all requires you to find every mob on the floor. When your talking 60~90s or less to clear each floor (you waste some time in lobby and you must still kill the boss and cast lots) all that running around adds up quick.

Notice a repeating pattern, lots of running around looking for stuff. The level layouts tend to be large and maze like, without any form of in-game map to guide you. You waste tons of time just running around the mazes, much less going all the way to that back corner that requires you to go three rooms over just to reach. Those "cheats" people keep mentioning remove large amounts of that wasted time, no need to look for anything, just do a quick 360 and note everything's location. You can tell which specified enemy is it, where the enemy leader is, where all the mobs are, and where all the poles are and if their order / same time or check point. You can also immediately discern the proper order and have someone at each pole without needing to waste time running around.

Even with all that, an experienced skilled group (with no other TPA) will have a 50/50 win / loss rate due to random BS. People without those are looking at a 5~10% clear rate, or about one in 10~12. At that point in time it might be faster to just farm floor 80's, which is how the event was designed anyway.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Even if you're going suggest there's no difference between extended macros/spellcast, which don't actually let you do anything you couldn't already, and fillmode/dat-swapping, which very much do*, merely acknowledging that stuff like fillmode and dat-swapping is straight-up cheating doesn't mean the people saying so in this thread begrudge the people using them; it's just setting up the premise of the main point of all these Nyzul threads: if people can't or won't clear Nyzul without cheating, there is something wrong with Nyzul.

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A lot of reason why there aren't many pt reported to clear with completely legit pt is because majority of player base already been using windower, so fillmode on is really just one key away. It's actually harder to find 6 completely legit player than a few windower user pt nowadays. It's not because it's not possible to clear without windower, but because many ppl would rather go for the easy route with higher success rate when majority of players uses windower. Say if a completely legit pt has 10% win rate on F100, this win rate may be what's intended and nothing wrong with it....1 month for 1 god tier armor, which is just right for a MMORPG. Using cheats just makes it faster.

Also a completely legit pt can still clear F80 easily, after 25 clear times you can get F100 armor too.

Honestly though, completely legit pt still has a chance to get F100 gear, just because 3rd pt tool user get it faster, doesn't mean there is something wrong. The difficulty of Nyzul V2 is just fine, it's already one of the fastest gear capping event in FFXI's history. Or you won't be happy until all gears are handed to you in your dbox in 5 days?

Also I can't do what extended macro/spellcast user do without windower(since I don't use windower). Extended macro user swap gear with 1 button, I can't unless I click 2~3 times. Spellcast user doesn't shoot their QD bullet, I do if I forget to click ammo macro.

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Originally Posted by Afania

A lot of reason why there aren't many pt reported to clear with completely legit pt is because majority of player base already been using windower, so fillmode on is really just one key away. It's actually harder to find 6 completely legit player than a few windower user pt nowadays. It's not because it's not possible to clear without windower, but because many ppl would rather go for the easy route with higher success rate when majority of players uses windower. Say if a completely legit pt has 10% win rate on F100, this win rate may be what's intended and nothing wrong with it....1 month for 1 god tier armor, which is just right for a MMORPG. Using cheats just makes it faster.

Also a completely legit pt can still clear F80 easily, after 25 clear times you can get F100 armor too.

Honestly though, completely legit pt still has a chance to get F100 gear, just because 3rd pt tool user get it faster, doesn't mean there is something wrong. The difficulty of Nyzul V2 is just fine, it's already one of the fastest gear capping event in FFXI's history. Or you won't be happy until all gears are handed to you in your dbox in 5 days?

Also I can't do what extended macro/spellcast user do without windower(since I don't use windower). Extended macro user swap gear with 1 button, I can't unless I click 2~3 times. Spellcast user doesn't shoot their QD bullet, I do if I forget to click ammo macro.

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Umm no, just no.

Of the "windower" users I know of, only about a dozen actually knew what "fillmode" even was, most are clueless. Most of them don't even know how spellcast works nor how to write XML, extended macros seem to be a pretty universal thing, still many screw that up too.

The reason so few wins happen without TPA / hacks is the content was designed to not be won. You are supposed to farm floor 60/80 for gear, all the while whispering about how great it would be to get floor 100 and standing in awe at those players who had the random luck to get floor 100 once out of ten tries. Of course players being players, we'll ALWAYS find the fastest way to maximize loot acquisition. Why run the risk of wasting 10~12 runs, or about 2~3 months to get 1 piece, when with little effort you can guarantee at least one piece per month (1/4 for a weekly static) and with a little more effort you can guarantee one piece per week if not more.

There is no magic strategy, no super secret ninja skills that can only be learned in the hollow halls accessed to only the few who know the secret handshake. It's plain RNG based, mind as well have a goblin outside that you can talk to once per day and rolls a dice. On a 1~19 you get nothing, on a natural 20 you get a piece of Nyzule 100 gear. Of course persistent players can't modify the goblins roll, they can modify the client.

Meh I did Nyzul the other day with MNK MNK WAR WAR SCH SCH, didn't win but got to floor 90-98ish three times(but we were slow on lamp floors) probably could have gotten to 100 if we invested in sprinter drinksx2 and powder boots.