Well, you have to understand that prior to the release of other jobs, WAR is the ideal weapons specialist. Rather than have access to it as main, why not adjust it so that you have access to Weaponskills based on the Support Job used as WAR; that said, it would also cut damage ratio by half due to being from a Support Job as opposed to Main Job. Naturally Square Enix would be responsible for balancing and fine tuning, as it was meant to be.
KB1
WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"
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06-10-2011, 12:34 AMKuwabaraone
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06-10-2011, 01:17 AMkingfury-----------Quote:
Originally Posted by SNK
^^ It's not greed, it's natural progression. By level 99, a WAR will have combat skill ratings for 13 weapons in the 300-400 range, and will be able to use them all effectively with proper gear and experience. 13 weapons are at a WARs disposal already. Is that "greed"? I didn't design WARs versatility folks, SE did. As it stands, WARs can already out damage other jobs using the skimply list of ws's we have amongst those 13 weapons as long as they know how to play the job. An experienced WAR can use a dagger with just as much efficiency as a THF or DNC in terms of damage. Our JAs, combat skill levels, JTs, and gear options make it all possible. It's already there... I'm not asking for anything that isn't already there. You can't break something that's already functioning by bolstering it.
If I was asking for Trick Attack or Barrage to be made available to WARs for a time, that would equate to trying to steal the uniqueness of other jobs. THF's still use evisceration to this day, and a WAR that's planned the gear around it can use that same ws just as effectively. This fact doesn't make that THF any less of a THF. A WAR can't DO what a THF does in terms of job performance and thus a ws is just a ws. They're used to cause damage to a monster. I've said it a few times already, even if SE gave WAR every ws in the game, no job would be in danger of losing their qualities that make them unique. Not a single one.
The Devs would have to alter WS's game-wide for this "robbing of uniqueness" to truly happen. If WS's when used by a specific job had "job specific aftermaths" (kind've like Mythics), and WAR was able to benefit from those job specific aftermath effects, THEN it would be unfair and imbalanced.Example: Evisceration (THF, DNC)"Aftermath" reduces targets accuracy. Enhances evasion.
If WARs could benefit from those same effects, that would warrant the "greediness" you speak of. Until such a change is made to WS's game wide, plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's.
I'll leave this Thread suggestion with this, if you don't understand what WARs can do currently with the weapon skills we already have, I fully understand this suggestion being something that's way to hard to swallow. Hell, MOST people that play WAR don't even know the potential they hold due to the box people try to put them in in terms of what they "should" be using to DD. I don't expect you to agree with something like this if you haven't been exposed to the potential that's already there within WARs design with these weapons. My suggestion is aimed at the Dev team since they are the ones that gave WAR their versatility to begin with. I simply ask that WAR continues to have a reasonable and fair outlet with these weapons as we move forward towards level 99. That is all.
Thanks for listening Devs /salute
Thanks to everyone's feedback, good or bad / -
06-10-2011, 02:07 AMLeonlionheart
This idea is HORRIBLE, stop pushing it.
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06-10-2011, 02:11 AMkingfury
LOL Then you must agree what WAR can do already is "horrifying" as well >< My ending line of my last post is the "idea" Leon. I don't care how the Devs accomplish it. ^^
"I simply ask that WAR continues to have a reasonable and fair outlet with these weapons as we move forward towards level 99. That is all." -
06-10-2011, 02:13 AMLeonlionheart
I do agree that war is better than everyone else.
Why make it more so?
We don't use those weapons in the first place other than for procs; here's to hoping we don't have any more of those. -
06-10-2011, 02:31 AMkingfury----------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
You do realize we're bound for level 99 right? ^^ The efficiency in each weapon will only continue to grow even if nothing was given to WAR for the rest of the ride I'm afraid. This fact can't be helped is my point, even without my suggestion for more access to WS's.
-------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
Unfortunately, as I mentioned above for lots of WARs, this is a true fact statistically speaking. It's not because a WAR cannot use other weapons effectively for DD'ing that many WARs don't use these other weapons, it's because they don't even try to use them to find out their potentials. I've out damaged a good handful of WARs that are using GA that don't even gear swap with a dagger. This isn't my opinion, it's happened on multiple occasions. It's just lack of testing and knowledge is all that's to blame. -
06-10-2011, 02:47 AMLeonlionheart
K let me tell you their potentials in comparison to GA:
none
EDIT: Point is GA is the best in the game for damage output and there's no way around it. Even unlocking other WS for other weapons (Most of which WAR already has the best of (non empyrean) I.E. Vorpal Blade, Rampage, Penta Thrust, Ground Strike, Evisceration, Guillotine, Full Swing. WAR only really loses out on Hexa Strike and Asuran Fists for damage output WS's) -
06-10-2011, 02:58 AMkingfury-------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
>< /stagger Hold on now, the argument on which weapon is the best to DD with has never been the point of this suggestion. I've never said that dagger or any other weapon is "better" than GA for WAR. The discussion at hand is bolstering the variety of options we have while using these other weapons.
Each weapon that a WAR can wield has great DD'ing potential due to WARs job design. ^^ All of the WS's you listed(except Guillotine) can be boosted while being used by WAR like no other job can. That's the potential I speak of. -
06-10-2011, 03:32 AMLeonlionheart
well then why use anything other than GA?
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06-10-2011, 03:50 AMkingfury----------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
>< /stagger again lol
The Freedom of Choice my friend! ^^• Because we can, and because we have the potential to do it well.
It's personal preference you're looking at with that question. If the only weapon you want to use is a GA when DD'ing, you have the choice to do. If you wanted to take out another weapon to DD with just because you caught the feeling(and know how to get the most out of it), well you have the choice of doing so as well.^^
• Because our JA's make other weapons do things no other job can do with them.
• It was designed to be so by Altana(aka the Devs).
• It's fun using multiple things to hit enemies with.
• Last point, but include different looking weapons in with it.^^ -
06-10-2011, 03:54 AMLeonlionheartIf it's not as good, why do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
I personally don't like choosing to be worse than I could be. -
06-10-2011, 04:13 AMkingfury
I gave the example in a recent post:
"Why would I ride a bike when I have a Car?"
It's not that you're choosing to be "worse" as much as you're choosing another method. If you don't have the right gear, combat skill, weapons, etc , then and only then are you handicapping your output. If you can equip a nice dagger and build a TP/Haste build that rockets you to 100 TP in half the time it takes you to get there with a GA, and then swap in some great WS gear that clears 2-3k+ each time with your dagger WS, you should doing similar if not more damage.
I'm gonna have to post a youtube video man >< lol There are folks that just don't try this stuff. -
06-10-2011, 04:26 AMLeonlionheartYou trolling?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
nothing will be faster than GA getting to 100% TP...
I get 100% in 6 hits... the difference in actual delay in cap haste GA and 1 handed dagger is:
Without haste:
8.43 (506 delay Widowmaker)
3.35 (201 delay Yataghan NQ)
Without STP it takes the same time to get 100%.
With gear haste:
6.33
2.51
With gear and spell haste(including base marches):
3.24
1.29
now we have hasso:
2.4
1.29
still subbing sam TP per hit (No stp gear):
Widowmaker: 15.7
Yataghan NQ: 6.3
With STP gear:
Widowmaker basic 6hit: 18.0 (6 hits)
Yataghan same gear: 7.2 (14 hits)
Time it takes with capped haste to get 100% TP w/o WSing (no retaliation no DA no TA):
Widowmaker: 14.4 seconds
Yagaghan NQ: 18.06
Highest Evisceration I've ever seen: 5.6k
Highest Ukko's Fury I've ever seen: 13.6k
You're not riding a bike, you're crawling. -
06-10-2011, 04:39 AMkingfury
^^ No, no, I don't troll. I know the math. I know how it looks on paper/screen. But you have to see it to believe it, trust me. If I hadn't tried this myself a dozen times up against other WARs just for kicks, I wouldn't dare post it. By the time the WS animation is finished, I'm rounding 60TP or more depending on Double Attack/ Triple Attack / Retaliation procs and so forth. I won't argue with the math and such, so let me instead get together a video of me doing this. Sometimes you just have to see the proof. ^^
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06-10-2011, 04:44 AMLeonlionheartWhile you do that I'll go make a video of me having 100% Tp before Ukko's Fury animation ends...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-10-2011, 05:18 AMkingfury
>< I use GA too! I know about that TP gain lol. I'm saying it's possible to do the same with other weapons and still dish out great damage.
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06-10-2011, 05:26 AMLeonlionheartBut it will never be as good, so unless they have some great debuffs or stun, or are simply for procs, what's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-10-2011, 05:51 AMkingfury------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
Variety, Choice, and the fun of mastering multiple weapons. ^^
Can't say "they'll never be as good" since that's a factor that's based on the expertise of the player wielding the weapon and the weapons/gear/JA's/JT's/and such that are being planned for us for future updates.
I understand your stance Leon, and you don't have to worry that I'm trying to say GA isn't the #1 choice for DD'ing on WAR because it really is. There's no argument there. My point, even from the OP is that WAR does truly excel at using these other weapons enough so to be considered worthy contenders as DD'ing choices along side GA. -
06-10-2011, 06:50 AMLeonlionheartThat's interesting, but unless they bring something to the table, or as long as WAR is a DD, there will never be any reason to use something that deals less damage. You're just not getting it...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-10-2011, 03:37 PMArcon
Mastering other weapons: play other jobs.
People argue with you because of three reasons:
1. It would only be used to make WAR proc everything
2. Apart from that, it's not needed. None of those WS are even useful for WAR, even if they did use those weapons for whatever reason
3. Your relentless reasoning: "We already have so much, so it only makes sense to let us have more!"
Those are things that won't change, people who dislike these things now will always dislike them, so please stop trying to convince everyone. -
06-11-2011, 01:44 AMkingfury----------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
I had use for all of my weapons far before Abyssea ever came along Arcon >< It's the players that never found use for these weapons before Abyssea that believe this post is geared towards Abyssea. Yes triggering would be possible in Abyssea, but that's a side benefit at best from what my suggestion is aiming for.
Again, if a WAR doesn't know how to push the weapon skills they have already on those weapons, I don't expect them to even understand the point of getting more. My definition for effective ws damage (outside of Abyssea) is 1.5k+ damage. I can achieve this kinda damage on all the melee weapons a WAR can wield, so their "effective" for me. Again, I find enjoyment out of playing with different weapons, and pushing the limits of what can be done through the versatility of WAR.
Let me tailor your interpretation of what I'm trying to reason with you about:"Your relentless reasoning: "We already have so much,(And as the level cap rises towards 99, we're only going to become more adept at what we do through higher combat skills, new JA's, new JT's, and newer/more powerful gear and weapon choices) so it only makes sense to let us have more!"
I'm not reasoning anything that isn't already going to take place in terms of WAR's imminent evolution as we approach 99. I'm simply suggesting what I believe would be a nice addition to WAR's future abilities.
No one can say what's going to change for this game at this point. No one even knew we would be where we are today, doing the great things we can do now. FC and Ukko's, ‹Thank you!› Devs ^^ I'm not too much concerned with folks that have WAR envy as they'll continue to be mad if we get ANYTHING in future updates lol. -
06-12-2011, 01:57 PMRyozen
You forgot to /stagger in your last post.
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06-12-2011, 02:49 PMLeonlionheart
You can suggest it all you want, but it's a horrid idea.
Not trying to discourage you from making new ideas, but get over this one.
This will be about as useful as footwork. -
06-12-2011, 04:00 PMArconIt's a side effect from your point of you, but the raison d'etre from everyone else's point of view. There were WS I used other than GA. But most of the good non-axe WS are already available to WAR as it is now, especially considering the new WS: Vorpal Blade, Penta Thrust, Herculean Slash, Spiral Hell, Black Halo, Retribution. The only weapon type missing from that list is Hand-to-Hand (and obviously Katana and Great Katana, which aren't covered by your idea anyway). But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
And again, the WS you're suggesting we get access to don't fall within any margin of "effective". The only exceptions would be Dragon Kick, Asuran Fists, Black Halo, Guillotine and maybe Spinning Slash. For all of those weapons (except Hand-to-Hand) WAR already has access to good WS. And notice that 4/5 of those are also stagger WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
To me that just sounded like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"
And I can assure you that's what it sounds like to most people (because that's what you said). You really don't see why people object to that? You say you want diversity, but the game already has diversity. The same argument you bring about "wanting to experience other things than a Great Axe" other people say to you about experiencing other jobs. Other weapon skills are simply available to other jobs. That's like a WHM wanting to be able to cast every white magic spell in the game, because it's just their thing, or a PLD wanting to be able to have every defensive measure in the game, because they're the iconic tanks. Some things are just not meant for certain jobs, despite how it may look like. If you want to experience other weapons, you already have the means to do it. It sounds like you just want it without having to do the work for it (i.e. level the required job).
Their envy is well-placed imo. WAR was already a very strong DD, arguably the strongest (bar relic SAM), yet SE pushed it a lot further. Balance was one of the aspects of the game that I always appreciated. The fact that a good WAR could out-damage any other average job. And the fact that a DNC could do the same. This is not really possible anymore, even great DNC have a very hard time just keeping up with an average WAR. Sure, they can do other things instead, but same goes for other jobs. That's not how it should be imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-12-2011, 04:06 PMRyozen
How do you figure that Relic SAM out-DDs Empyrean WAR?
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06-12-2011, 04:15 PMArconI was talking about how WAR was already an outstanding DD pre-Abyssea (from my experience the best, bar relic SAM), and instead of balancing things out, SE pushed WAR even further ahead (with or without Ukonvasara).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryozen
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06-12-2011, 07:18 PMLeonlionheart
Arcon, there's no logical way to tell kingfury off but for him to stop trolling. He's been regurgitating the same reasoning up for the last few pages now.
Someone states that WAR uses GA because it's the best, and using something else would just be less efficient.
Then he says that WAR should try other things.
Then someone says that WAR uses GA because it's the best, not because it's all they have.
But WAR should try other things.
But GA is the best, no way around it.
But WAR should try other things.
...
At this point he's just trolling. -
06-12-2011, 11:40 PMkingfury
@ Leonlionheart:
Uh, no, responding to folks that ask the same questions over and over again isn't trolling. Again, I've already stated that this has never been a question of which weapon is best to DD with (a Great Axe) so there's no need to try and make it sound like my logic is off. Pay attention to my post before you try calling others trolls. Actually READ what I post perhaps, so you don't make a troll out of yourself.
"Variety, Choice, and the fun of mastering multiple weapons. ^^
Can't say "they'll never be as good" since that's a factor that's based on the expertise of the player wielding the weapon and the weapons/gear/JA's/JT's/and such that are being planned for us for future updates.
I understand your stance Leon, and you don't have to worry that I'm trying to say GA isn't the #1 choice for DD'ing on WAR because it really is. There's no argument there. My point, even from the OP is that WAR does truly excel at using these other weapons enough so to be considered worthy contenders as DD'ing choices along side GA." -
06-13-2011, 12:46 AMkingfury
@ Arcon:
This line,
• "But you're not asking for any "useful" WS, you're asking for WS that have no merit in using other than to stagger mobs."
And this statement,
• "They do know how, but they see no point in it, because they simple aren't as useful as they WS they have. Name one WS a WAR needs to be more efficient, in any conceivable way (not just damage), apart from staggering."
are battling each other. If you can't clear 1.5-2k+ damage with Spiral Hell, Evisceration, Ground Strike, Full Swing, Black Halo, and more consistently on WAR right now, then I can understand these statements. Trust me, a VERY high percentage of WARs DO NOT even equip other weapons enough to know how to get the most out of them. Most only just recently skilled them up to be able to hit mobs in Abyssea to trigger effectively! Not knowing that most of these ws's can reach 5k+ dmg once buffed in Abyssea. Half of the folks that are spitting flame at my suggestion don't even know their potential, so it's easier to put something down that you don't understand/don't want to understand. They REALLY DON'T know how Arcon, because if they did they would see the validity in my suggestion which opens the door for more options.
This isn't about "needing" another WS to be more efficient either Arcon. A GA and Axe satisfies our "needs" just fine, since those are our main weapons. The suggestion is trying to make sense of the logic that WAR will continue to be on par combat skill wise as those that use these weapons as their Main job weapon choice. It just makes no sense to me that we have such high combat ratings with these weapons and not the WS's to match.
If Abyssea had never been released, I would still have suggested this to the Devs, so for the last time ABYSSEA TRIGGERING IS NOT WHY I'M PROPOSING THIS >< lol. Hell if you like I'll include that these WS's under Weapon Mastery WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TRIGGER monsters in Abyssea just to prove it for ya (I'll put this on OP shortly). Hopefully that'll kill this portion of the topic for good. ^^
This line and following statements,
• "To me that just sounded like this:
"We already have so much, and we'll get even more in the next updates, so it only makes sense to let us have more still!"
Uhh... correct. Sounds a bit Mojo Jojo'ish when you put it like that (redundant), but yeah, that's pretty much the logic. The good thing about WAR is that I don't have to level another job to be efficient at another weapon since that's apart of our core job design. That's what we do, we're "Masters of all things Melee". Now, you and others are saying my suggestion of trying to bolster that job design is off base? Why? No other job can do what we can do with weapons is my point, so why not reward that? Again, it's just something I believe would make sense with all the high combat skills we have and will have in future updates.
Rather than envy a WAR, I say find ways to be the best at what it is your job is designed for. A lot of folks don't get that there's diversity even amongst job function classes. All melee oriented jobs can technically be called a DD since they cause damage, but that doesn't mean they were meant to do the most damage during battle. A THF is a DD, and pretty good one at that, but does that mean they should envy a WAR because of their design to hit hard? Nah. They have a great roll and they do it well. What about a SAM or a DRG or a DRK? Yes, they're DD's, but that doesn't mean they were designed to be the hardest hitting DD's in the game. By design, I'm talking about JA's, JT's, weapon/gear options and such. On my taru WHM, I have a TotMs Affinity staff with damn near the same amount of MAB gear as a BLM(mixed in with MND), yet I can't even get close to 3-5k nuke damage using Divine magic. It's frustrating, yeah, but that's the design of their job to do those numbers. Does it stop me from trying to bolster my Divine magic damage numbers? Hell no. I'm happy that I can clear 2K+ at times with Holy, and can't wait to see what new things are on the horizon for damage boosting options.
This really doesn't have to be an on going back and forth guys. I've already said my peace with this thread suggestion, in that I just hope that there will continue to be an outlet for having such high combat skill ratings on WAR as we approach lvl 99. If you disagree, that's fine, and I'm not bashing your opinion. It's just a wish from my WAR, that's all. -
06-13-2011, 01:13 AMkingfury
**Edit to the OP**
**EDIT** Certain weapon skills, under certain conditions that are unlocked via this JA that are used for Red and Blue triggering on monsters inside Abyssea will cause them to not trigger for the WAR using this JA only.Example:
A WAR/SAM uses Weapon Mastery to unlock the dagger weapon skill Cyclone in the attempt to try trigger Red on a NM, yet no Red trigger will be possible for the WAR since this JA is active. If another party member natively has Cyclone available based on their Main or Sub job, they will be able to trigger Red using Cyclone on the NM. The WAR will still be able to receive the hint message from using Cyclone however. -
06-13-2011, 01:26 AMkingfury-----------Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryozen
lol /cues joke drumroll ^^ -
06-13-2011, 02:24 AMMinsc
Just do us all a favor and admit you want this for procs and procs only. You go on and on about it being because you want to have the choice, but any WAR with a brain would never choose scythe over GA or polearm over GA unless they're trying to proc something. You said something to the effect of, "Why ride a bike if you can drive a car?" By your logic, if there is a BLM and WHM in your PT, you ask for a Tele-Mea, get a chocobo and OP home (even though a Warp II would clearly be faster), just because you have that choice. Better yet, you must walk to Tele-Mea because you have that choice. However, I doubt you do all of that just like I doubt that you want this ability for anything other than procing.
"A THF is a DD, and pretty good one at that, but does that mean they should envy a WAR because of their design to hit hard? Nah. They have a great roll and they do it well. What about a SAM or a DRG or a DRK? Yes, they're DD's, but that doesn't mean they were designed to be the hardest hitting DD's in the game."
Let's not forget, WAR was originally designed to tank. SAM, DRG and DRK were originally designed to be DDs.
You also say, "The good thing about WAR is that I don't have to level another job to be efficient at another weapon since that's apart of our core job design." So by that logic, why should anyone level any other DD job if WAR has it all? Hell, why stop there? Why don't we give WAR a Jump and Cover and Magic and make Mighty Strikes a 1 minute recast and give them a new 2hr called "God Mode" where you essentially get the effects of a brew for 119 minutes? I enjoy playing WAR just as much as anyone, but I also see the sense in at least trying to keep things as balanced as possible. Your idea sucks, friend. -
06-13-2011, 03:01 AMArconNo? I don't see how that's even remotely a contradiction, but instead just reinforcing the same point, that you only want weak new WS, because we already have many strong WS (as you pointed out yourself). If you're looking for a contradiction, here's one:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Other weapons will never be as good. They might occasionally be useful, they might even still be able to DD competitively (which is what, I'm guessing, you meant), but they will never be as good. And people don't see a reason to settle for second best. People don't even play with a normal axe anymore, because it can't measure up. So why settle for something less than ideal? Do you have that much fun playing with other weapons for the sake of using other weapons? Not gaining anything useful by it? If you do, I don't blame you. But you're the only one I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
The funny thing is, that you already can play with all other weapons, and you already have great weapon skills for these weapons (which you personally bragged about). So why could you possibly wanna be able to use other weapon skills? Because you just always wanted to use Energy Drain on your WAR?
I'll tell them how: same way as with every other WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
They do, they just don't agree with you. I know other WS can be "good", but not as good as a great axe. And since they don't have any other interesting properties, I don't see why you would use them. The only reason would be, to experience new things, for the role-play value. And that is precisely why the job system exists. Why some jobs can do things other jobs can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Now you argue, that WAR is meant to be a master of all weapons (which is false), and therefore should have access to more weapon skills. WAR, in fact, is "experienced" at many weapons. They are specifically not meant to be master of all. That's the reason why they lack some WS with every weapon except for the axes. Based on the fact that they're experienced at other weapons is precisely the reason why they're so good with them already. But you seem to be hellbent on taking it beyond their outline and making them absolutely proficient with each.
This is also part of your contradiction. Saying we have so many great WS and can break 5k easily, then say we don't have the weapon skills to match those weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
It doesn't matter why you suggested it, we just said that's the only reason why people would be using it. If it's not possible to stagger mobs with those, people won't use them at all and the JA will be useless again.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
And that's why people object. Apart from the fact that it would upset the game balance (in a role-playing way) and that it's not useful (in a gameplay-way), it's the logic with which you defend it. No one agrees with that point of view. Here you say:Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
Why do you wanna reward a job description? WAR can use plenty of great WS already (as you admitted), isn't that the reward? And you think it's not, while other people say it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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06-13-2011, 05:24 AMLeonlionheart
Simply put again: People will use whatever deals the most damage in the least amount of time.
This ability will either make that another weapon, or do absolutely nothing. -
06-13-2011, 06:05 AMkingfury
@ Arcon:
When I said your statements were "battling each other", I meant that If they in fact knew how to get the most out of the current weapon skills WAR has access to, they wouldn't say they were "not useful". The new ws's that would open up to WAR like Guillotine, Spinning Slash, Hexa Strike, and more are not "weak" WS's at all. If a WAR got their hands on them they would most definitely be beastly in terms of damage output.
>< I know you know that some weapon skills require more than just STR to push out the most damage. Some take piling on stats that are foreign to WAR like INT, MAB, and MND. Some you don't spam at 100 TP, others have their potential unlocked with a WARs 2hr. Your response to "everyone else" would have them frustrated real quick and tossing down weapons left and right if you're suggesting using the GA WS mentality only. I'm not bragging about the damage I've done on these weapons, I'm trying to prove a point about their potential. 1.5-2k+ is still pretty darn good damage outside Abyssea as far as I'm concerned, so it wouldn't be a waste if you're pulling in those kinds of numbers.
Yes, you're right about me playing with other weapons for my own enjoyment, but what happens when that enjoyment turns into expertise and I can suddenly hold my own with the other DD's in the party? What happens when I'm matching their numbers in most cases? And no, I'm not talking inside Abyssea, since no damage can out due Emp. wpns in there.
I'll never say that I'm not happy with all the great WS's WAR can use currently, because I am. It's the very reason I'm suggesting this JA in the 1st place. There are more powerful options just staring a WAR in the face that other jobs don't use anymore because they can't get the most out of them like a WAR could. All I'm asking for is as we continue to grow, so should our skills and expertise. That's the bottom line. The entire FF game mechanic is based on such a logic. You start off with few skills and spells, and as you grow in experience, you learn more skills and spells. It's sound logic and no different from what I'm suggesting. at lvl 75, a WAR has limited access to lots of WS's across multiple weapons. Level 95+ should allow access to more of those WS's is all I'm saying. -
06-13-2011, 06:06 AMkingfury------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
Correct. There's nothing to argue about that. / -
06-13-2011, 06:27 AMAtomic_Skull
If they did this wouldn't they have to rename Warrior to "Munchkin" at the same time?
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06-13-2011, 06:47 AMMinscAnd once again, by your logic, why should anyone level any other jobs if WAR has it all? Every DD job has a weapon their best at...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
WAR = GA
DRG = Polearm
DRK = Scythe
SAM = GK
MNK = H2H
THF = Dagger
etc...
You have such a hard on for WAR that you're pretty much asking...
WAR = ALL
...and you don't care how it will affect other DD jobs.
Either you've done all you can on WAR with the weapons/skills/JAs it has available that you've become bored with it or you want WAR to be able to proc everything except yellow. -
06-13-2011, 07:47 AMkingfury---------Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsc
Wait, wait, wait, don't stop there! What about PLD, RDM, and BLU? What happened there? I've posted this example already, but I'll give it to ya again if you missed it."plenty of jobs already share the same WS's like PLDs, BLUs, and RDMs. Do you say then that these jobs are encroaching on each others uniqueness because they share damn near every WS's Sword has to offer save Relic, and Mythic WS's (since even the Emp. WS is shared)? Of course not. Each job plays in their own unique way and has no issues because they share the same WS's."
Again, for the umptenth time ^^ None of these jobs would be in anymore danger of losing what makes them unique than they already are based on what WS's WAR has already. The OP ask for all basic WS's, not ALL WS's. Check the OP again in regards to the crappy Abyssea trigger stuff as I've updated that part. Couldn't care less about Abyssea triggering, but more WS's Yes please.
Jobs distinguish themselves by their JA's. You level a job for what they can do and what their designed to do. SE designed most other Melee jobs to be dependent on 2-3 weapon choices to deal good damage on. WAR was designed outside of that mold. They are the most versatile Melees in the game by design. If you want to benefit from that design, level a WAR, if not level another job.
--------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsc
WAR brings a lot of happiness to lots of folks yes, but No, I've never said all. -
06-13-2011, 08:01 AMkingfury---------Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
Qué? o.^