Actually the reason this MMO doesn't see a lot of new players is because the over-saturated MMO Market, Its over 10 years old, and It doesn't advertise.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterJoint
It has nothing to do with Relic weapons. .
Honestly, I can't see why people can't be happy/okay with the other 11 out of 12 Equipable item slots being upgradeable at any given expansion, and having just 1 item, out of all of your equipment, be the best it can be, and have that sense of permanency.
The only legitimate and reasonable excuse for wanting RME weapons "Closed in on" is the fact endgame content has become pretty much "RME Only" and thats making them more required than an upgrade for the dedicated. Which I think only 1-2 of you have mentioned.
Rest of the rationale from a few of you just... You make it sound like RME Picked on you in highschool and now you're going to the reunion and find out they're a methhead. IDK how better to explain it other than "once i was butthurt and now im happy cause the thing that made me butthurt is no longer as powerful as i remember it!"
Some, not all of you. Most of you have some pretty logical arguments i can actually understand to the end.
New weapons with higher base damage then relics
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04-12-2013, 04:03 AMKarbuncle
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04-12-2013, 04:05 AMHoradrimTruth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
I don't like giving out A's for trying, though... Makes the nerds uppity.
The fact that you seem to specialize in personal attacks over logic is exactly why I make a point of not giving a shit about anything you have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asymptotic
I give my opinion and my view point of the game's purported directional change (which isn't really validly supported until we see what the RME changes will be). I don't make a show of dogging anyone who has their RME nor do I call them idiots for wanting to keep their weapons powerful for sake of previous effort.
I merely say what I think and stand behind it. I have repeatedly referenced my respect for, and appreciation of the value people place in, the work they invested in their weapons (with particular focus on people who have had their RME for longer than a few months, because anyone who just finished their weapon only months before the release of the expansion can't really be surprised by the revelation of new gear) while simultaneously citing my disagreement that it should instantaneously allow them to be the best even as far as 8+ years after the original work was done.
If you feel that my ability to understand and agree with a sentiment, but still have a generally opposed personal opinion with regards to how that sentiment should be addressed is "spouting nonsense," that's your problem, not mine. If you feel you have to "dumb down" your posts in order to get someone who will not haphazardly sway their opinion to match yours, that is your problem, not mine. And if you honestly feel that yours is the only logical, respectable, and understandable view point in existence then that is your intellectual failing.
Not mine.
So for future reference, spare yourself the trouble of trying to appeal to your misinterpretation of other people's intellectual capacity just because they don't acquiesce to your opinion (which, taken without consideration of the source is a perfectly acceptable one). I'm not here to deal with people who don't know how to have a conversation without acting like they're in grade school, I'm here to talk with people like Karbuncle who can actually put forward their viewpoints without constantly sounding like an asshole. Next time you feel the need to address me personally in one of your asinine posts, take a moment to look around you. Absorb for the moment that everything around is composed of millions of molecules. Now consider that every single one of those millions upon billions of molecules represents a fuck I don't give about you or anything you have going on in that trite, belittling head of yours.
Speaking of things actually worth responding to...
I don't think you're wrong. I mean, I've definitely come around to a better understand of the reasons why the whole issue is more upsetting to most people than it is to me. Question just becomes how do you fix the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
I think it might be more of a developmental road block for SE than we might realize -- after all, how do you create new and exciting content with competitive rewards if you can't make gear notably better than old content? Again, mind you that Skirmish is not end game and there will be a set of hard-to-build weapons coming, undoubtly, even if you only use the fact that RUN and GEO don't have their own unique weapons yet as a basis for the assumption.
My interpretation, as I stated earlier, is that SE's primary goal was to hit the reset button and create a baseline above the old world gear to use as the starting point for a new gear arms race. We really just have to wait and see what's around the corner. -
04-12-2013, 04:12 AMhikothis is not skirmish H2HQuote:
Originally Posted by Crusader81
the guy above got the loot mixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Asymptotic
the weapons that "shit over 99RME" the most are their least worries?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asymptotic
I dont think the extra dmg on WS-SA-TA out do mandau +40atk, AM, relic proc and even less if the crit rate isn't weapon onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Asymptotic
the fun part are the people that cry the louder are the BANDWAGONRAGNADARK because their new bandwagon weapon is no longer the bandwagon weapon to go.
+ if weapon where < to RME nobody would care about them and do the event, then complain because their is nothing to do
and don't say it would have been weapons for more casuals because of the "RME or GTFO of my PUG" mentality of this game
I think doing weapon that beat RME then upgrade RME so they get back on top is a good way to go -
04-12-2013, 04:53 AMCrusader81the numbers have already been put into spreadsheets and it's over 10% difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
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04-12-2013, 05:14 AMKarbuncleI think it also comes down to the fact that they are kinda at a roadblock on power. I think what they need to do is make these weapons great and comparable to 95RME's, which is what most people can obtain with little difficulty. If they kill off the RME Market, They're essetentially killing Abyssea, 80% of ToAU, and Dynamis in exchange for Skirmish, which is 1,000x Harder to enter, and a lot shorter in duration. Which i think is a bad move.Quote:
I don't think you're wrong. I mean, I've definitely come around to a better understand of the reasons why the whole issue is more upsetting to most people than it is to me. Question just becomes how do you fix the problem?
I think it might be more of a developmental road block for SE than we might realize -- after all, how do you create new and exciting content with competitive rewards if you can't make gear notably better than old content? Again, mind you that Skirmish is not end game and there will be a set of hard-to-build weapons coming, undoubtly, even if you only use the fact that RUN and GEO don't have their own unique weapons yet as a basis for the assumption.
My interpretation, as I stated earlier, is that SE's primary goal was to hit the reset button and create a baseline above the old world gear to use as the starting point for a new gear arms race. We really just have to wait and see what's around the corner.
Honestly, With a lot of the weapons... they set the DMG Too low to begin with, which did back them into a wall in terms of where they could go with new weapons if they wanted to keep RME on top. I can think of two solutions.
1) Allow them to be offhanded to their full Potential. This will fix 1handed issues for me, I have no problem offhanding my Mandau if it gave me 40 attack and Mercy Stroke.
2) Make newer weapons comparable with the ~95 Versions, so a few updates down they can release weapons comparible to the ~99's, But at the same time, Buff the Weaponskills that come with 99 Relics a little more (Say from 40% to 55% or so) so that while the Merit WS's will validate the Non-RME's, the RMEs will still have their special uses with a powerful WS. IDK About Mythic/Empyrean WS's though, some are great, some aren't...
Theres a lot of adjustments that would help balance this issue so that 99 RME Owners aren't going to be p*ssed, cause the ones who are like "Dont worry be happy" are in the minority when it comes to responses on this issues... which is understandable.
I think Allowing RME to be Augmented would be really nice too.. Perhaps allow us to access a quest to permanently unlock their WSs if we have the 99 Version, Which would help with a lot of them (Not all of them)... This coincides with allowing 1-handed Weapons to be offhanded to full benefit...
I can think of quite a few ways to close the gap while not making RME terrible... But SE implementing it is another story... I hope they have plans that make sense, and keep my Mandau relevant, but at the same time, I really hope they close the gap between ~95RME and NOrmal weapons too, cause 90% of my Jobs are unwanted because i don't possess Ukko's Fury, or Victory Smite... or a R/M... So half my jobs are just useless and dead because everyone wants RME only.
While i could easily go get one of those weapons, I don't think that changes the fact RME should not be "Required", and I do like the new direction these weapons are taking, I just hope they compensate the people who spent the time and gil to get theirs to 99. -
04-12-2013, 05:31 AMHoradrimAnd I'd say this was the thought behind the drastic nature of the Skirmish gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
I don't know... I guess the biggest issue in the entire problem is that we're dealing with SE and this isn't a conversation/debate between people who can actually effect changes.
They are probably plans that are decently acceptable clashing with their secretive nature like a parent who has bought a marvelous gift for their child but doesn't want to ruin the surprise of the birthday to make up for accidentally forgetting to pick the kid up from cancelled soccer practice in the middle of a thunderstorm.
I hope so as well. It'll give me a reason to want to finish my RMEs to 99.Quote:
While i could easily go get one of those weapons, I don't think that changes the fact RME should not be "Required", and I do like the new direction these weapons are taking, I just hope they compensate the people who spent the time and gil to get theirs to 99.
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04-12-2013, 06:07 AMJaall
It seems that SE wanted to wait and see what the community did and how easily they got the new weapons before updating the 99 weapons so that they could adjust them accordingly but it has probably proved to be one of their biggest risks to date, which is saying something! Due to the amount of people who have put the time and effort into playing (mainly because the majority of players still playing this 10+ year old game are of the "hardcore" variety, or should I say, less casual) the amount of people being effected by this change is a lot wider than when Abyssea was introduced, and even back then there were a lot of complaints. I just don't think SE have much room to take risks anymore but they seem to think so.
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04-12-2013, 11:30 AMXantaviaI'm glad somebody brought this up. Remember when the abyssea base sets came out and all of sudden gear people had spent a long time obtaining got tossed out. Buy a full set of pearle gear and no need to touch sky. And yet, with synergy, people have found a new use thanks to augments. I personally don't have a close tie to these weapons (though I would love to have a mandau and an almace, but meh, effort), but I think some more time needs to pass before everyone just gives up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
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04-12-2013, 12:33 PMAsymptotic
Like I've said all along:
1.) Releasing weapons that trump RME95 and below and/or situationally trump RME99 is a good thing
2.) But, the relative caliber of RME99 should be preserved because these players have invested a lot and incurred a significant cost and eliminating the motivation to participate in the content is a bad thing for the game's livelihood and economy.
Achuka H2H are a good example. My Kenkonken are still better most of the time, but I still need* the Naakual weapon if I'm teaming up with a BRD. It's just a shame that it stomps all over Spharai 99 for MNK, but SE could just pump up the base Damage of 99 RME and call it a day. There are obviously more thoughtful adjustments they could do but in my experience they take least effort path most of the time.
*want -
04-12-2013, 05:08 PMCrusader81
You know what pisses me off the most, They were heading in the direction of making R/E/M more accessible each year, until the past couple years you could actually make one without dozens of people.
And rather than make it even more accessible they chose to completely dump over them, they could have made them much much easier to obtain and people could still do the content, and enjoy finally finishing the R/E/M they've always wanted, and then Released gear 10% better
Instead they keep the content hard and break them anyway, and JUST like the Twilight Scythe situation where I started to seriously question the thinking of the current XI team, I saw this crap coming, I thought when I saw how close R/E/M already were to the current DMG of 90+ weapons being released (ahem Mandau) I thought "boy that sure doesn't give them much room in the future"
This game is over 10 years old, you don't just walk in, in the games "golden years" and crap over 10 years of content. I mean I saw the end of this game coming, but If you told me it would be like this 5 years ago I would have said "There is absolutely no way in hell they'd ever do that, everyone would quit"
And to the people who say "hey just wait, they'll fix all this" all I have to say is FFXIV forums are literally full of people who left when upset with Abyssea and never will come back, I tried to tell them it was different now, and they said "no way am I ever going back" so the damage is already being/been done.