Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Rocman

Being a FFXI player since the game first came out on the ps2, I agree with Krystal. It has gotten way too easy to level now. The first week or two i loved it, then as i got 5 jobs from 75-90 in a week or two I realized that most of the fun has been taking out of this game. I think SE should balance it a little bit. I like the idea of increasing the aby level to 75+. I think if we can keep it to once your 90 keep things how they are with the easy solo, easy merits, ect. but from levels 1-75 i think should go back to the old way, that way you have to work to get to your 75 job, there will be parties again. And once you hit 75 you get to 90 easy in aby. Thats just me though.. Honestly i love the game and will keep playing no matter what but i do believe this way would make it better for everyone..

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Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could "leech" a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

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Originally Posted by Rocman

Thats not entirely true. Honestly even a 75 job is pretty worthless unless its a backline job, at 75 drg i couldnt hit the one at all missing pretty much every swing and when it does hit its for a 0-3 dmg. So a 75 job can easily be a key whore.

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I dont mean that a 75 is as useful as a 90 in an abyssea pt. I mean that its a whole lot easier to convince a lvl 30 player to be a keyleech than a 75. A lvl 30 player is going to be completely useless in an abyssea pt aside from keying boxes, with how fast exp goes in abyssea a 75 wouldnt take all that long to become a contributing member and at that point they wouldnt want to be a keyleech anymore.

When my RDM dinged 70, after leeching exp in Abyssea (Keyed) from 37+, starting with an Elemental Skill of 86 (at level 37), it was able to outdamage the other 17 members of the alliance combined. On Red Mage. Nuking. Starting with 86 Elemental Skill (though /SCH eliminated that disadvantage). Being useless at 75 and/or 90 is a symptom of being shit tier. And yes, high tier players really would probably just plain stop exp'ing without Abyssea. We all have the jobs we want at 90 already anyways. The only reason any of us would exp now is to level a new job for funsies or for a Maat's Cap, also for funsies. Both of these are usually done because they're easy now. I wouldn't have bothered with a 7th job if I had to dredge through Crawler's Nest one more time.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could "leech" a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

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The only problem i have really is that it is impossible to find a party outside of aby. Soloing or duoing gets boring, i miss having the old time parties. Plus like i said the game is alot easier now then it was before, yes i like being able to solo things that i couldnt before but its gotten way outta hand. I helped a new player get his rank 3 last week and i didnt know the removed the level cap, i killed those dragons in like 2 hits. Wheres the fun in that? Where is the old time allys to do missions/quests. Yes i miss that. This game is way too easy now.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could [SIZE="5"]leech[/SIZE] a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

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Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...

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Again, if your comprehension wasn't the same as a rock you would have noticed that i said both ways are easy. One is just less time consuming.

I have warned you about arguing with Krystal before on this she is not gonna change her mind neither will you just state how you feel and move on

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

I have warned you about arguing with Krystal before on this she is not gonna change her mind neither will you just state how you feel and move on

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You don't know that gotta have some hope.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

You don't know that gotta have some hope.

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163 posts she hasnt bent yet

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.

In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.

In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

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Key people are needed and they blow major cruor to do it so they mat as well get benefits of burning low lvl job while giving away their cruor for the good of the party. i just hate the ones who instantly grab all the dam KI's

My argument is not that a 75 person is less efficient than a 30 for keying boxes. My argument is that a 75 is not going to want to waste cruor opening boxes while a 30 has no choice in the matter.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

My argument is not that a 75 person is less efficient than a 30 for keying boxes. My argument is that a 75 is not going to want to waste cruor opening boxes while a 30 has no choice in the matter.

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What is it with you people and your baseless assumptions

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

What is it with you people and your baseless assumptions

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Find me a 75 who enjoys wasting their cruor by keying boxes instead of skilling up.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.


In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

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Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

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Because there were no 75 noobs before abyssea existed, right?

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

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You've made at least 7 threads and have not listened to a single thing in any of them. We have told you over and over why this is wrong you just seem to have zero comprehension skills.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

Because there were no 75 noobs before abyssea existed, right?

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*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

You've made at least 7 threads and have not listened to a single thing in any of them. We have told you over and over why this is wrong you just seem to have zero comprehension skills.

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no actually..i just don't understand the "lazy player" Language...so maybe if you changed your accent abit.........:P

Krystal used the Konami Code to give her Strawmen infinite lives.

I really like Krystal...

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Originally Posted by Krystal

*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

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Who are you to decide what the proper way to level is?

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

Who are you to decide what the proper way to level is?

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An elite, hardcore player who can do missions without a walkthrough and shit. It's Starcade syndrome at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

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Actually a great majority (not minority which you are so fond of) won't.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Icestein, I think that's an important point being overlooked by a lot of the complaints about leeching.

Many of the leechers are LS mates/friends of the leader of either the alliance or individual parties, and thus usually have certain rules that apply to the leechers. Maybe they are more offended that they can't get into a party to leech because the leaders have restrictions?

When we started doing it, you could only leech if you were opening boxes--thus, once we hit 3 leeches, no more were allowed. Everyone had to ask beforehand, and we kept a list of people and had a priority--you had to wait your turn.

Now, we have several people who can cleave for us, and a few RDM's to buff them. So, we'll set a day to tag team the WAR and RDM roles, make a list of attendees, and make a day out of it. The new rule is if you want to leech, you HAVE to bring and USE 100 keys BEFORE you can go AFK. We hold a spot for the first 18 people who sign up for it, and only take new members when they leave (or get dropped). If you go AFK without opening keys, or otherwise making plans to do so when someone finishes their spot...then you get bumped. It's crazy when a new group comes in sometimes. 3 or 4 people racing to see who can burn their 100 keys first...heheh.

Raist

HOLY CRAP. 17 flames in the time it took me to write this post. You people need to chill before this thread gets locked too.

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racing to open chest can turn to be stupid if they blindly open em (ex leech opening 2h chest => the war kill next wave slower)

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

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I learned more on BLU while PTing with good BLU than i did when i had acces to an alt with blu and farm the missings spells

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Originally Posted by Krystal

and what do you do when your close friends have left the game due to the fact they don't like FFXI in it's current state? HHMMM? mr.i have a solution to everything.

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Do yourself a favor (and most of us too) since you seem to don't like how FFXI become: follow em out of the game

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...

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i never found the old system great, it's so great that i had a SINGLE 75 job for years,(before aht urgan release) did missions, events with that job (that wasn't even a top job) got my second 75 job AFTER wing of goddes release (and did near half >60 in campaign) and rather playing a "not top job" or left if i couldnt do "event" with my jobs than leveling the old boring way

When was Level Sync released again? Maybe the solution is to simply link to the BG Gimp/Confused/WTF threads that existed *Prior* to all of these things. I assure you there were plenty of bad players in there. Heck, I think I make a cameo in one of them from like '06-'07 \o/. Man, that was bad.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

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Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

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I would say that I've personally seen far more players joining or coming back to the game than leaving, but someone somewhere would probably call them all bad people for wanting to come back when exp is less annoying or something.

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

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Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

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No, these are friends along with others that are leaving the game. You can dig into your list and build parties and I do. It just gets harder and harder to do. I left a dying server and started a new LS and we do party together. I just don't want to see this server die out like my last one for the same reasons

Also, on the key issue. Why can't an Abyssea party share the cost of the keys? By the way, I am not trying to do away with Abyss, I have 90 jobs and do go in myself sometimes. I would just like to see both types of play survive.

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

Also, on the key issue. Why can't an Abyssea party share the cost of the keys? By the way, I am not trying to do away with Abyss, I have 90 jobs and do go in myself sometimes. I would just like to see both types of play survive.

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I don't know about you, but if I feel the need to bless a party with my presence I dare say I won't be paying to do it. They should consider themselves lucky I'm not charging them.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

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and what of the new players with no friendlist or the ones who friends have left? no one ever looks at anything beyond their own clouded vision...i swear...i have looked at all aspects and have determined many causes and possible fixes to make FFXI a more enjoyable place for us all. and yet lazy players seem to think my ideas"are not fun" or they go"i'll ragequit if that happens" when what it boils down to is this...they won't...if cap gets raised they will bitch...they will fume...but they won't ragequit. also i have already noticed a possibly quote counter insult in my reply so i have this to say in response to it. My vision is not clouded. it's your views who seem to only be seeing one end"the easy way to get to level 90 and go woot to brag about my e-peen!" i'm going to laugh my ass off when all these lazy players lose their level 90s and start raging in the forums when FFXI does get shut either due to abyssea not getting fixed or just simple age of the game. to me..this is just a game. but a game i enjoy and will ride out till the end...providing SE don't murder it first with any farther updates that make the whiners and complainers about"this game is too hard!" happy. with each Update to make this game"easier" the more players they lose...when the exp increase was introduced 15 people on my friendlist left with their messages saying"game is too easy....no challenge anymore." or a likewise message.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

and what of the new players with no friendlist or the ones who friends have left? no one ever looks at anything beyond their own clouded vision...i swear...i have looked at all aspects and have determined many causes and possible fixes to make FFXI a more enjoyable place for us all. and yet lazy players seem to think my ideas"are not fun" or they go"i'll ragequit if that happens" when what it boils down to is this...they won't...if cap gets raised they will bitch...they will fume...but they won't ragequit. also i have already noticed a possibly quote counter insult in my reply so i have this to say in responce to it. My vision is not clouded. it's your views who seem to only be seeing one end"the easy way to get to level 90 and go woot to brag about my e-peen!" i'm going to laugh my ass off when all these lazy players lose their level 90s and start raging in the forums when FFXI does get shut either due to abyssea not getting fixed or juts simple age of the game. to me..this is just a game. but a game i enjoy and will ride out till the end...providing SE don't murder it first with any farther updates that make the whiners and complainers about"this game is too hard!" happy. with each Update to make this game"easier" the more players they lose...when the exp increase was introduced 15 people on my friendlist left with their messages saying"game is too easy....no challenge anymore." or a likewise message.

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You just have lots of strawmen. There's a huge difference. All of the people you say are being slighted, and doing the slighting, are hypothetical plebes whose numbers you inflate because you "feel" they should be at a certain level. You're not noticing any trend because it's there. You're noticing what you want to notice.

I say let the main leader in alliance have the option to set rules for exp level limit. Then another rule if your not engage on cause any damage on a mob in like 2minute time frame you dont gain exp.

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Originally Posted by Odintius

I say let the main leader in alliance have the option to set rules for exp level limit.

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I have no problem with this. But if they're at all competent they should know what the levels of their party members are in the first place. I suppose it does help prevent people from staying /anon and trying to trick them, though. And it doesn't really harm anyone.

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Originally Posted by Odintius

Then another rule if your not engage on cause any damage on a mob in like 2minute time frame you dont gain exp.

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This, however, is just bad for a lot of reasons. WHM and BRD don't exist any more or something?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You just have lots of strawmen. There's a huge difference. All of the people you say are being slighted, and doing the slighting, are hypothetical plebes whose numbers you inflate because you "feel" they should be at a certain level. You're not noticing any trend because it's there. You're noticing what you want to notice.

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once again attacking my creditability....good lord....people never stop when they get scared...do they?

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Originally Posted by Krystal

wall of text.

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This is incredibly selfish of you to deprive people of being able to leech abyssea. I paid my dues. I had 8 75 jobs before even level sync existed, let alone abyssea. If I feel like leveling a new job, why should I have to struggle with the old way of leveling. It is not hard to learn how to play a job. The wiki works for when you first learn how to play a job, and BG exists for if you actually want to play a job properly.

In essence, why should SE change a system that works so that a small minority can re-live their "glory days" of when leveling was "a challenge". Yeah, I said minority. Come get me.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

once again attacking my creditability....good lord....people never stop when they get scared...do they?

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I can provide examples of people who sucked before level sync existed. What examples do you have of people who meet the following criteria:

1) Leveled 30-90 in Abyssea for every job they have
2) Have no skills capped, and otherwise totally suck at the game
3) Sane people actually find them credible
4) Sane people actually allow them to influence their gaming experience negatively

Providing examples of players who quit because no one will party with them would be nice, but counterproductive since it only shows that you and other likeminded fellows don't practice what you preach.

Edit: inb4 "Lots of people, everyone knows it, you're just scared"

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

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Is it bragging when my LS or friends say they need a BLM for yellow !! and I say I have 90 BLM because I burned it in Abyssea over 3 days? How about my MNK that I burned from 42-90 so that my LS and friends would have another tanking option and a solo option for myself? How about my WAR I burned from 35-90 and then skilled all weapons needed for Red !!s so that was another option available? I play those jobs better than a large amount of people I've partied with that were on them and I'm even better geared on them usually. Was that luck on my part since I didn't learn how to play them by leveling outside Abyssea?

I burn jobs because its helpful to myself and/or others. I'm ok with Abyssea burning because I don't see a difference between a level 30+ "key master" and a level 75+ "key master" as I know in a good group it is a full time job and you don't need to be 75+ to know how to do it. I also don't see the difference between a level 30+ newb and a 75+ newb, I take the time to read up/ask questions on a given job so I know how to play it decently, neither of these are done through partying outside of Abyssea.

Also LOL at thinking getting a job to cap gives you bragging rights. Unless you mean offering a job to help a group is bragging about it. Beating Maat on RDM would give you some bragging rights assuming its your first job.

I for one didnt count in buffer support and whm im sure if your doing your job in healing and buffs ect there be another add rule for them.