Would introducing an atma with increased skill gain rates be too dramatic?

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Korpg doesn't seem to understand this...the Prouesse Ring isn't one of the types of items players should have to "work" for because it's really not powerful or game-breaking in any sense.

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I said if you want it enough, you should work for it.

You don't think it is worth the effort, so you don't work for it.

Maybe you are the one who isn't able to understand, so I break it into easier words for you. >.>

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Originally Posted by Vold

Yet what you are saying is completely 100% irrelevant to the topic at hand. The ring has no baring whatsoever on whether or not to give us an atma to do the same thing. If it did, the ring wouldn't exist simply because of kupowers, or GoV itself, or the newbie hat. Just because something is in the game already does not mean something else that does the same thing can't be added.

We're happy for you and your 3 minute ring, but stop being a drama queen. It doesn't mean it's that easy for everyone. Technically speaking a person could live in there for the next ten years and never get the ring because the system never hit that "jackpot" number to drop it. It's extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

I'll also take this time to say that apparently this thread is not pointless in the sense that the mines is constantly overrun with people chasing the ring, but it is pointless in the sense than it is very unlikely for SE to add anything more to Abyssea aside from adjustments. New Dynamis and voidwatch should make that truth very apparent.

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I was responding to the person who accused me of not knowing what Gambler's Fallacy is. I know it was offtopic, but I also brought into light standard deviation and normal distribution, which states that on average, things happen in X amount of tries, and most everything falls into X number of tries (for a full lesson in this, look up Normal Distribution and Statistics). Stating that something takes 30 hours to do is stating one extreme, while my stating it only took me 3 minutes was the opposite extreme.

Also, I don't have the ring. I gave it to my noob friend I was helping.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I said if you want it enough, you should work for it.

You don't think it is worth the effort, so you don't work for it.

Maybe you are the one who isn't able to understand, so I break it into easier words for you. >.>

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Way to miss the point. The entire complaint about the Prouesse Ring centers around its use being negated by the effort used to obtain it, thus making "work" part of the equation to obtain it completely asinine.

With a lot of other stuff in the game, there is a use for it even if the cost/reward is out of whack (example: Relics/Mythics are not really worth the effort involved to get them, but have an aesthetic appeal as well as usually being pretty good weapons anyway). Hell, the Prouesse Ring doesn't even have a fluff value to it that some stuff like furniture or mannequins give. Its only function, to make skilling up more efficient, is negated by the pains needed to get it.

Quit changing around your argument every time someone disagrees with you, it just makes you look petty.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Way to miss the point. The entire complaint about the Prouesse Ring centers around its use being negated by the effort used to obtain it.

With a lot of other stuff in the game, there is a use for it even if the cost/reward is out of whack (example: Relics/Mythics are not really worth the effort involved to get them, but have an aesthetic appeal as well as usually being pretty good weapons anyway). Hell, the Prouesse Ring doesn't even have a fluff value to it that some stuff like furniture or mannequins give. Its only function, to make skilling up more efficient, is negated by the pains needed to get it.

Quit changing around your argument every time someone disagrees with you, it just makes you look petty.

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Looks like we both missed our points.

Lets just admit that we both are obtuse and get on with our lives, ok?

*admits*

Works for me.

Though, now that I'm thinking of how effective the Prouesse Ring is, I'd think a skillup atma would actually be less effective than putting on another DA or TA atma, funny enough.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Works for me.

Though, now that I'm thinking of how effective the Prouesse Ring is, I'd think a skillup atma would actually be less effective than putting on another DA or TA atma, funny enough.

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You know, I agree with you.

I guess I never did state why I don't think this would be a good idea. Guess what you said makes the most sense.

Not really.

If a skill up atma:
1) Gave skill ups on 0 dmg hits and misses (and x10 skill up for guard and parry)
2) prevented exp gain
3) prevented time extensions/aquireing lights

I think it would be wroth it. Then stack it with DA/TA/ACC etc.

Just my 2 gil

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Not really.

If a skill up atma:
1) Gave skill ups on 0 dmg hits and misses (and x10 skill up for guard and parry)
2) prevented exp gain
3) prevented time extensions/aquireing lights

I think it would be wroth it. Then stack it with DA/TA/ACC etc.

Just my 2 gil

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You know nobody would ever sign on that.

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.

Automaton Skill up rate definitely needs a small improvement :\, I dont think mine will ever cap his skills with how disheartening it is to go out on a 6-hour+ skill up session and walk away with maybe 1.7~3.0 Skill ups. on EM~T+ Mobs.

no fun at all =.=a

you could automatically cap skill soon as you level up and it woudl have no impact on the game besides allowing you not to have to waste your time doing something useless for hours upon hours.

Problem is the japanese seem to thinking time sinks = content = difficulty. They are so wrong and if they every want their new mmos to ever reach huge audiences they seriously need to get over that concept.

wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fine

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Originally Posted by Lutschfactor

wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fine

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Seriouslly, that. had. to. have. a. few. too. many. periods...

I see nothing wrong with making skill ups 10-20x faster. You cap them once and they are done, and it only takes about 2 hrs to go from 0 to 300 with the bulk of time being in changing zones. Not to mention you can do it on about 8 different weapons at a time. There is no 'skill' involved in skilling up, it is purely a time sink to slow down fast levelers.

Which, incase you cant tell from abyssea, FFXI has shifted from the old slow grind to the new faster paced leveling system to more closely match the more popular games in the mmo market.

So it would only fit that skilling up matched the new leveling pace. Personally I have been a pup and mnk as long as I have played and still havent capped guard or parry, and it took about 2-3 days of straight skilling up to go from 300 to 365 automaton ranged attack.

Did I learn anything about my pet, become a better player, become elite? No... I watched tv and hit deploy every 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.

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Skilling up =/= difficulty. Mindless grind =/= difficulty. Have you ever actually played a video game that requires skill? Your mind will be blown when you see genuine difficulty (as opposed to artificial difficulty) in a video game some day.

Talk to rog, he was able to go from level 0 to cap with emp +2 armors in a day on all skills on WAR.

He knows how to skill, maybe he would give pointers out.

"wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fin"

Lol you are so wrong on so many levels. I soloed half my jobs, grinding it out, not in abyessa. I have been playing since launch and have grinding almost everything I got, mostly by myself or in small groups.
I just can't believe how stupid you are, first, spell things out, stop using short form. And are you that god damn stupid that you think the idea to keep people paying is to force them to grind and bore the hell out of them? Really? are you really that stupid?

and fyi, I didn't say I wanted them capped right away, I was responding to the question, which was increasing skill rate would have 0 affect on game balance by using my comment that even if they straight up capped it wouldnt affect game balance.
You get people paying by providing content, real content, not grinds. This game could have had easily 10 times the amount of subs if they stopped with the useless grinding.
You ever level pup? You want to see the new definition of grinding trying to level h2h, pet magic, melee and ranged?

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.

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you have a child's perspective on challenge and accomplishment

I agree with this and can see where luts is coming. Theres way to many fail people nowadays, truly they all need to suck less the reason they probably wan't an atma for skilling up is everything else is handed to them so why not skill ups in their opinion. All the people that post in this asking for the atma need to go jump off a bridge cause their worthless.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

A crutch for the weak perhaps...but not overpowered. So I agree that it is dramatic as skill gain has never been an issue outside of maybe parry/guard.

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Weak nothing, a lot of the time (at least in my own experience) the game is very stingy with skill ups. I for one, am sick of spamming abilities non-stop versus IT+ enemies (usually dolls in Altepa) for hours just to gain a few skill levels as was the case just yesterday on my BLU 90. I gained maybe 6 skill levels of blue magic in around 2 hours of partying - yeah that's real productive.

It'd be nice to have an atma for this, particularly for the more arduous skills to level such as Guard & Parrying.

They dev team needs to admit parrying is broken let alone adding skill ups for it.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Yeah, it sucks, but you know what? You got it easy now. Just go to Abyssea, suck at Rages, have weak Wards, but continue to use them. Nobody should skillup SMN magic JUST by Summon/Release method anymore.

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A) I don't play SMN, so I won't be skilling summoning magic.

B) I was just relaying what I'd heard from a friend of mine who has been soloing/duoing/doing small parties on SMN and has watched his summoning skills fail to keep up and found it hard to get skill ups.

C) I am really tired of hearing "oh you gots it soooo eazy now, why you QQ" all the time. I don't care if it was more annoying and time consuming when you did X, Y or Z. I really don't. Annoying time sinks don't make this game better. They don't make players better. They don't make the game more attractive to new players.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Skilling up =/= difficulty. Mindless grind =/= difficulty.

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Thank you. All skilling up does is make me feel like not playing the game. If it is possible to PARTY as a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER and go from 75-85 in a couple hours it shouldn't take days of boredom to go from 75-85 combat skills. That is asinine.

You know, I don't really notice anything wrong with the skillups system, except Parrying/Guard/Shield portions. I mean, after getting a job from 85 capped skills to 90 capped skills (on WAR offweapons, like Great Sword, Hand-to-Hand, and Dagger) I don't see it taking longer than 4 hours on DC mobs outside of Taz Outpost. Each.

Could be me though. Maybe if you are taking level 30 skills to level 90 on IT++ mobs in Abyssea, it might take a while...

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Originally Posted by Olor

A) I don't play SMN, so I won't be skilling summoning magic.

B) I was just relaying what I'd heard from a friend of mine who has been soloing/duoing/doing small parties on SMN and has watched his summoning skills fail to keep up and found it hard to get skill ups.

C) I am really tired of hearing "oh you gots it soooo eazy now, why you QQ" all the time. I don't care if it was more annoying and time consuming when you did X, Y or Z. I really don't. Annoying time sinks don't make this game better. They don't make players better. They don't make the game more attractive to new players.

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A) Tell your friend that.

B) Again, tell your friend that.

C) Think it was easy for us, who had to do it without Martial Arts Kupopowers or any other help, like this new ring? Maybe some new players won't like it, but should they really be expected to be handed a gold metal just for breathing?

"Here Johnny, you survived today, here is a gold star!"

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Originally Posted by Korpg

You know, I don't really notice anything wrong with the skillups system, except Parrying/Guard/Shield portions. I mean, after getting a job from 85 capped skills to 90 capped skills (on WAR offweapons, like Great Sword, Hand-to-Hand, and Dagger) I don't see it taking longer than 4 hours on DC mobs outside of Taz Outpost. Each.

Could be me though. Maybe if you are taking level 30 skills to level 90 on IT++ mobs in Abyssea, it might take a while...

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Well War has that nifty skill or whatnot, doesn't it - that makes skilling up easy? I hear people all the time talking about pulling a bunch of mandies and retaliating to skill ups with double/triple attack atma and multihit weapon skills...

That's well and dandy, but I am not a war, and I don't have all the good atma yet... and don't feel like collecting all of them as a useless gimp (this is my first job past 75) so I skilled up my roughly level 70ish skills to 80ish skills soloing GoV pages over the course of two days of my playtime, and it was boring as hell.

Skill ups add nothing of value to the game. You can try to peg me as a leech or w/e but I don't really care. It seems like your only reason for being against this is the banal "I had it harder so why shouldn't it still remain a pointless time sink that drives away subscribers and punishes people for using the leveling systems inside the game?"

Once you start leveling in Abyssea - not leeching - leveling - your weapon/magic skills rapidly fall behind, leaving the playerbase to either be gimp or spend their (in my case anyway) limited playtime doing incredibly boring things that don't teach anyone about how to play their job or anything else.

Long, pointless time sinks will not hold subscribers. They won't - especially now that the game is old and dusty, not new and shiny. One way or another, skill ups need to be re-tuned.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Well War has that nifty skill or whatnot, doesn't it - that makes skilling up easy? I hear people all the time talking about pulling a bunch of mandies and retaliating to skill ups with double/triple attack atma and multihit weapon skills...

That's well and dandy, but I am not a war, and I don't have all the good atma yet... and don't feel like collecting all of them as a useless gimp (this is my first job past 75) so I skilled up my roughly level 70ish skills to 80ish skills soloing GoV pages over the course of two days of my playtime, and it was boring as hell.

Skill ups add nothing of value to the game. You can try to peg me as a leech or w/e but I don't really care. It seems like your only reason for being against this is the banal "I had it harder so why shouldn't it still remain a pointless time sink that drives away subscribers and punishes people for using the leveling systems inside the game?"

Once you start leveling in Abyssea - not leeching - leveling - your weapon/magic skills rapidly fall behind, leaving the playerbase to either be gimp or spend their (in my case anyway) limited playtime doing incredibly boring things that don't teach anyone about how to play their job or anything else.

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I didn't skillup in Abyssea. I skilled up outside, by myself, and I didn't think it was that bad tbh.

Besides, nothing wrong with exp with level 75 skills. As long as you don't exp with level 60 or below skills, there isn't really all that much bad about it, thats why you eat food (sushi mainly) to take up the slack of lower skills. Just join an exp party!

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Long, pointless time sinks will not hold subscribers. They won't - especially now that the game is old and dusty, not new and shiny. One way or another, skill ups need to be re-tuned.

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Sorry, had to bring this out by itself:

This game IS a massive timesink. Look at TotM. Look at Emp armors. Look at relics armors. Look at most anything in this game! It is nothing BUT massive timesinks.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Thank you. All skilling up does is make me feel like not playing the game. If it is possible to PARTY as a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER and go from 75-85 in a couple hours it shouldn't take days of boredom to go from 75-85 combat skills. That is asinine.

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It's one of the few redeeming aspects of FFXIV (along with learning spells automatically as you rank up) - No skill levels, just straight up increases per rank. It's really too late to change that in XI, but that doesn't mean they can't make meaningful adjustments to ease the process.

Skilling up is a mind-numbing chore.