Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Gear is already available from NPCs. They are just at prices made in such a way that they would not interfere with crafters who would be unable to sell their wares at all the NPCs sold it cheaply. This is why the NPCs are priced in such a way, and it is still valid today.

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Its not valid when no one makes the armour, so the "crafting" side is cancelled out but the price continues to be high.

People in this thread are still unaware of how difficult things are for new players, what you're all forgetting is you start with NOTHING, how you supposed to do successful farming on mobs or get anywhere if you're naked with a level 1 weapon and have no skillups so you cant hit anything, this is the issue which drives the difficulty up.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Make it profitable for crafters to craft.

If you don't want to pay more money than what is obviously not attracting sales on AH, don't complain!

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This or Craft your self, Or leech to 90.

The problem I see for low level gear is anything below 30 is makeable and will probably be made. But once people hit level 30 they just go stand in abyssea so why should anyone put anything on the ah if people are just going to waste your time and not buy it because you dont need gear to stand in abyssea. This makes it very hard for new players to get any gear from 30. Raise the cap for abyssea. Make it profitable and worth while for people to put the stuff back on the ah. Its the only way you will get new stuff appearing.

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Originally Posted by viion

Its not valid when no one makes the armour, so the "crafting" side is cancelled out but the price continues to be high.

People in this thread are still unaware of how difficult things are for new players, what you're all forgetting is you start with NOTHING, how you supposed to do successful farming on mobs or get anywhere if you're naked with a level 1 weapon and have no skillups so you cant hit anything, this is the issue which drives the difficulty up.

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Most armor is bought from the shops around below level 30. I agree unless new players know someone in the game or find someone in the game who can sponsor their first few levels its going to be hard but no harder than when we all first started. FOV gil helps the new players more than we ever had. There are lots of beginner quests that can make them gil. All you can ask is the long time serving memeber who finds a new player be a gracious host and give them some gil to help them along and ideas for them to get their own. I cant tell you how many new players Ive given 10k to get them going. They dont need much.

It's really not that hard to find a crafter....

and its incredibly cheap to level up crafts to where you can make midlevel gear... AH is in the dumps atm so materials are cheap.

I've said this before and I'll say it again I won't level a craft to make one piece of gear. There are plenty of crafters that have leveled crafts up already that can supply the low levels of a server.

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Originally Posted by viion

Its not valid when no one makes the armour, so the "crafting" side is cancelled out but the price continues to be high.

People in this thread are still unaware of how difficult things are for new players, what you're all forgetting is you start with NOTHING, how you supposed to do successful farming on mobs or get anywhere if you're naked with a level 1 weapon and have no skillups so you cant hit anything, this is the issue which drives the difficulty up.

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Originally Posted by katz

Most armor is bought from the shops around below level 30. I agree unless new players know someone in the game or find someone in the game who can sponsor their first few levels its going to be hard but no harder than when we all first started. FOV gil helps the new players more than we ever had. There are lots of beginner quests that can make them gil. All you can ask is the long time serving memeber who finds a new player be a gracious host and give them some gil to help them along and ideas for them to get their own. I cant tell you how many new players Ive given 10k to get them going. They dont need much.

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FYI... the first mobs you FOV on (page1) outside a starter city are level 1 mobs. You can fight those until you hit level 6 or 7. You will have earned enough gil from the FOV pages and selling the drops to purchase new gears and guess what... go back to FOV again. Page 2 is... level 3-6 mobs--which you can take to level 12 or 13. Again, you can earn enough gils, possibly even CP to get upgraded gears again and.....go back to FOV. The remaining pages just outside the starter city have mobs that you can xp on until you hit 15-17.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Field_Manual

Some of the mobs will actually drop GIL when you kill them. Some drop items you can use to craft stuff at level 0 craft and sell for a decent profit. Some drops will sell for up to 5k a stack in the AH, or NPC for 100+ gil, or are used in quests for either gil or...guess what GEAR (Outside Bastok, you can get a Shell Shield to drop that can be used at level 7, turned in for Welcome to Bastok and gives you a level 9 sword that you can use and later upgrade to a Bee Spatha, or just sell it for 350+ gil, or ifyou happen to be leveling bonecraft you may be able to desynth the shield for a Giant Femur that can be used to craft something else or AH for 1k gil or NPC for 200--if you use the shield for the quest it opens another fetch quest you can do later to get a level 31 shield).

All this can happen right outside your starting nation, and you earn a decent spot of gil off them. You haven't had to travel anywhere, and you are able to solo all the way to level 12-15, earn gil to cover the cost of upgrading gear AS NEEDED TO HANDLE THE MOBS YOU ARE FIGHTING (don't need level 10 gear for a level 6 mob) and are at a decent level to team up and kill stuff in Dunes now if you like. If not, you can work your way to one or two zones away from your starter nation and rinse/repeat with that FOV book and get to 20 plus solo if you want, or if you've made some friends you can team up and explore and fight tougher targets mixing in FOV for higher xp/gil gains and get all the way to Jueno to get your chocobo and such and start making even more gil/xp per hour. It all flows very nicely.

As stated before--adjustments simply are NOT needed. It is all there. It has ALWAYS been there (at least since I started ages ago). Oh, and btw...I started long before FOV was available. I started as a MNK, ddin't have a linkshell until after I had leveled MNK, WAR, WHM, and RDM to around level 12 and headed to Dunes for my first party. That is when I got my FIRST linkshell. I never had any trouble with gil back then, and I wasn't crafting or gardening. I didn't start any of that until I started BLM, which wasn't until AFTER I unlocked subjobs and made my way to Jueno. When I started BLM, I started cooking craft to make my own juices as I leveled BLM. My first big AH purchase was SEER'S for my BLM, all +1 except for the body.

So yes, I DO know how hard it is for someone to start out. I DID it under MUCH harsher conditions.

Well thank you to the very few who tried to help come up with solid ideas for making an adjustment to the way the game has progressed. Its just too bad that most have to turn it into my way your way crap.

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Originally Posted by Kanjitai

I've said this before and I'll say it again I won't level a craft to make one piece of gear. There are plenty of crafters that have leveled crafts up already that can supply the low levels of a server.

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The crafters would certainly make low-level gear if there was a market for it. But there's not. Why make products that are in such low demand?

I guess people are complaining about lack of gil because they level up so much faster these days. When I started you had to earn the gil to level up. Now its too easy to level, the need for gil is that much faster and because they havent had to earn gil before leveling they are finding they are short. The game now seems geared towards how fast can I get to 90 instead of how can I get to be a good quality player.

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Originally Posted by katz

I guess people are complaining about lack of gil because they level up so much faster these days. When I started you had to earn the gil to level up. Now its too easy to level, the need for gil is that much faster and because they havent had to earn gil before leveling they are finding they are short. The game now seems geared towards how fast can I get to 90 instead of how can I get to be a good quality player.

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Ya to bad the thread was about how to help fill the AH for new players at low levels (gear and so on), or come up with a idea on how to make things of that nature more available. The "how fast i can level" I couldnt agree with you more. I think the reason we die hards played this game and boycott WoW is because we cherrished the long hours and years of team work and companionship created. FFXI was never geared to be a solo game, well not untill ABBY came out anyways...

I know all of you who have played this game many years can remember a BUSTING at the seems AH. Where you could buy gear recycled off by players who sold it there because its how it was done. Youd check your deliv box all the time to see if your items sold so you could purchase better equip to go along with the items you quested for. That is no longer a part of the game, and its what the newer players will never see unless we/SE do something to help it. (look more server merges, lack of newer players, we will lose our passion here if we dont do something)So again to all of you who want to steer off topic... try to be a solution not a problem.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Gardening..

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Can't garden for 3 months after starting a new character.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

Read what we're writing. You can currently acquire gear with gil, be it on the AH if it's up, from an NPC if it's not, or farm/buy the materials and find a crafter. Or one of the various (and I mean lots by that) other methods mentioned.

Nothing at all is broken. Nothing.

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Actually the fact that there is very little gear between 1-50 on the AH at any time IS broken. It isn't even about gil - it is about the fact that you simply can't buy it if it isn't there... and if you truly think paying an npc X3 what a crappy piece of gear is worth is the solution for a newb - you're outta your mind.

If crafters don't think making gear is worth their time - then something is broken - either SE needs to make crafting skill ups come faster (thus encouraging new players to give it a try) - or they need to stock npcs with more gear that costs less.

The game economy was originally made with a playerbase that was -mostly- low level with some high levels in mind. Now that the game is so top heavy, things need to be adjusted. As for people saying stacks of onions sell for so much yadda ya - last time I sold them I got like 8K and that was pretty much the price they were when I sold them 2 years ago on my old char on a different server.

I've also tried farming onions on a lvl 7 or 8 job only to have a level 90 thf come and sweep the area clean of mobs. Great. Now I get no money, and no experience points. That was fun! I guess I can sit down and wait for respawn now. Sure is fun playing this game!

If you want the game to wither away before it's time you will continue to accuse new players of being lazy. If you were smart, however, you would realize new players will extend the life of this game - and support measures which don't hurt you, but help new players.

Seriously- if you don't want to make newbie armor - why would you be against measures to help new players get some?

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Originally Posted by Olor

Actually the fact that there is very little gear between 1-50 on the AH at any time IS broken. It isn't even about gil - it is about the fact that you simply can't buy it if it isn't there... and if you truly think paying an npc X3 what a crappy piece of gear is worth is the solution for a newb - you're outta your mind.

If crafters don't think making gear is worth their time - then something is broken - either SE needs to make crafting skill ups come faster (thus encouraging new players to give it a try) - or they need to stock npcs with more gear that costs less.

The game economy was originally made with a playerbase that was -mostly- low level with some high levels in mind. Now that the game is so top heavy, things need to be adjusted. As for people saying stacks of onions sell for so much yadda ya - last time I sold them I got like 8K and that was pretty much the price they were when I sold them 2 years ago on my old char on a different server.

I've also tried farming onions on a lvl 7 or 8 job only to have a level 90 thf come and sweep the area clean of mobs. Great. Now I get no money, and no experience points. That was fun! I guess I can sit down and wait for respawn now. Sure is fun playing this game!

If you want the game to wither away before it's time you will continue to accuse new players of being lazy. If you were smart, however, you would realize new players will extend the life of this game - and support measures which don't hurt you, but help new players.

Seriously- if you don't want to make newbie armor - why would you be against measures to help new players get some?

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Try reading through the actual topic, every single point you made has already been addressed, and I've said multiple times I'm not against helping, it's just not necessary.

Geez, people seriously need to go level and cap their reading comprehension skills.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Actually the fact that there is very little gear between 1-50 on the AH at any time IS broken.

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Not really. It's a sign that there's a negligible demand for these items.

There's absolutely no incentive for crafters to enter the low-level gear market since there is no real market for low-level gear. There's already enough low-level gear floating about the playerbase, bought and sold as people start and finish subjobs, that there's no real incentive for crafters to involve themselves. There's no gil to be made there. If, as you claim, there are tons of new players running about, then crafters would already be there accommodating the demand for gear.

This MMO is over eight years old. FFXI will never again see a large influx of new players. Returning players? Yes. But not entirely new players.

You stop getting gil on FOV after 5, so a level 1 can only make 1350, 1/10th required to buy any gear lol.

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Originally Posted by viion

You stop getting gil on FOV after 5, so a level 1 can only make 1350, 1/10th required to buy any gear lol.

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Players can receive FoV's gil and tabs reward only once per game day even though it's possible to do several FoV regimes per game day.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

Try reading through the actual topic, every single point you made has already been addressed, and I've said multiple times I'm not against helping, it's just not necessary.

Geez, people seriously need to go level and cap their reading comprehension skills.

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I read the entire thread, thanks. But I guess stooping to personal insults levels up your reading comprehension skills, amirite?

I don't understand why the new players are having such an issue making money....back years ago, when people like myself started playing, things weren't any easier to figure out...actually it was hard as hell, because wiki wasn't as advanced as it is now, and knowledge about gil making endeavors was a closely guarded secret, yet many of us still managed to figure out how not only to make that gil, but to prosper too.

I'm with all the other crafters on this thread....give us a reason/incentive to make things and we'll do it. I'm always happy to cook up anything that ppl want me to in game, for no charge as long as the person brings me the mats, but I'm not going to waste my time to make maybe 5k with a good bit of effort when there's so many other ways that are more profitable and quicker.

I like to point out that the lack of gear hurts long time players too. I have low level jobs I like to level but can't gear. Also some people think making gil is the issue. it's not it's the lack of gear. you can't buy what's not there.

Wow. The OP has said numerous times that this thread is not about making money it is about the fact that there is very little to buy for lower levels. He is right. When people on the LS are asking if ANYONE has seer gear to sell - and the answer is "no" - so they are just SoL.

Guess what? Seer gear is crafted only. It doesn't matter how much money a person has if no one is selling it. So for crying out loud - stop making this thread about how noobs should just work harder to make money - and talk about the actual issue - or don't bother posting at all.

Numerous times crafters have said it isn't worth their time to make these things because there are not a lot of new players coming in. It is true. There are not a lot of new players coming in. Out of the ones coming in, there will be very few that are going to have enough gil to make higher level players feel like "crafting for low levels is worth their time." Hell, even if every new player was a gil-making machine - it wouldn't matter cause there are not enough of them to keep things moving on the auction house, so likely as not crafters will still feel like it isn't worth their time.

The game is top-heavy. The gear system was designed with a playerbase with more even level spreads in mind. It was designed with the idea that people would be leveling crafts and skilling up by making gear.

So while all of you can say "oh you don't need the gear anyway - level sync in the dunes till you're 30 then leech Abyssea till cap" but that is not an option for new players. And if new players want to make gil they need decent gears so that they won't die while they are trying to do it. Those gears are not available - AT ALL most of the time.

What happens is the lack of gear is contributing to the lack of new players because - honest to god, there are people who quit over the fact they can't find any equipment.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Wow. The OP has said numerous times that this thread is not about making money it is about the fact that there is very little to buy for lower levels.

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This thread is entirely about making gil. Crafter's don't make gil on low level crafted items, therefore crafters don't craft low level items.

It really is that straight forward.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

This thread is entirely about making gil. Crafter's don't make gil on low level crafted items, therefore crafters don't craft low level items.

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Yes and no. No, it is not about noobs making money like so many people are trying to make it about, because as I said above, even if all noobs were gil making machines (which is unfair to expect them to be, because they are NOOBS) - there are not enough of them for crafters to bother with.

Yes, it is about the fact that crafters can't be arsed to make something for a small profit that takes a long time to sell because there are few noobs and fewer with much gil to their names - and no, I don't blame them for that.

So, what this thread is actually about is ideas about how SE can fix the problem (and yes there is a problem) - which is that atm a lot of gear just isn't being made, and won't be made because there is not enough new players to create the kind of demand/profit that will motivate the current crafters we have.

My suggestions are:

either
-offering some of the crafted only gear on npcs at affordable rates OR
-increasing the skill up rate on crafting so that more people give leveling it a chance/it is more affordable for new players to level it

Other suggestions would be awesome.

This thread was turned into "How can noobs make money" barely a page or two in after the solution to all of this was presented multiple times.

If materials are made readily available, and patrons are actually willing to pay for a crafter's time, low level gear will become a viable market. If materials remain almost impossible to find (or simply at inflated prices), and final products remain a complete profit loss to even put up on the AH, no crafter in the world would waste their time making low level gear.

That's all there is to it. It has nothing to do with leveling or Abyssea and everything to do with people being unwilling to supply crafters or pay for their skills. Without the massive RMT influx of basic materials, the responsibility to maintain a steady influx of Mining/Harvesting/Logging goods is back on low level players.

Players are extremely spoiled. They don't understand that the reason a lot of things were so cheap back in the day was solely because of the RMT influence (they caused the supply of many items to soar). Not only do they want a large stock of armor available on the AH, but they also want it cheap. Really cheap. Cheaper than the base materials. Whenever crafters try fixing prices to break even, it becomes "Greedy crafters are trying to rip me off. I can't make any gil. I can't afford to pay them. I don't want to work for this armor. I just want them to give it to me because they're rich and I'm not. Not everyone knows what ffxiah is. It's not fair to expect new players to be able to get any gil. Why can't the armor be cheaper?"

This is all it comes down to. As myself and others have already said a few times in this thread; make it worth our time to craft low level armor and we'll do it. We aren't going to go eat massive losses and hunt for basic materials all day just to please some people that complain about spending 5k-10k gil.

There's very little incentive to craft gear at any level these days.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Players are extremely spoiled. They don't understand that the reason a lot of things were so cheap back in the day was solely because of the RMT influence (they caused the supply of many items to soar). Not only do they want a large stock of armor available on the AH, but they also want it cheap. Really cheap. Cheaper than the base materials. Whenever crafters try fixing prices to break even, it becomes "Greedy crafters are trying to rip me off. I can't make any gil. I can't afford to pay them. I don't want to work for this armor. I just want them to give it to me because they're rich and I'm not. Not everyone knows what ffxiah is. It's not fair to expect new players to be able to get any gil. Why can't the armor be cheaper?"

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So true...in my experience, crafting doesn't give a huge profit till the end, but ppl complain about the massive prices, not realizing the price that the crafter had to pay to make the item.

some mobs who drops pieces of armor should be droping it more often so ppls have a better change to obtaining it, and thus using it or selling it at AH, items that are used to synth should be easier to get (like an example a wamoura thread), as sometimes the items are hard to get and thus ignored by crafters, whats teh point on doing something that is to much a trouble and won't give me a profit, if these items have an easier way to get, more armors, weapons, furnishings, etc, should be able to be crafted and thus put on AH, there are other items players are looking after (like ancient currency) that could be sellable and thus starting to full Ah, idk, this is my idea, personally i like clothcrafting no matter its useless now, n if i could get some materials easier, i could craft more and more clothes and sell 'em at the AH i think many crafters or regular players stops using AH because there is no point on buying a weak armor i won't be using much time because of abyssea, sadly this is hurting new players, as they don't have the biggest armor/wps of the game, or at least the ones used in mostly pt situations (like AF before abyss armor, or empyrean sets)....

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Originally Posted by Olor

I read the entire thread, thanks. But I guess stooping to personal insults levels up your reading comprehension skills, amirite?

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Not sure where I insulted anyone, just said that people either aren't reading everything, or comprehending everything, or both. Though if you did read the entire thread, where on earth did you get the idea I was against it? I'm serious, point out where I've said they shouldn't do something. The "worst" I did was state that it wasn't necessary, and then explained why, even stating that it'd be nice if they did anyway in some of the same posts.

And gear not being on the AH is not a legitimate reason as to why players can't get gear. There are many ways to go about getting gear, including with gil (see what I did there? made gil relevant to the discussion because pretending it's not is ludicrous). Buy or farm the mats and find a crafter. Most all crafters would be willing to take a minute or so of their time and craft something that the materials are provided for. Many of them would also likely do it without an extra fee. Thinking about alternative options and following through must apparently be an incredibly hard thing to do for new players, given the amount of people arguing that it's impossible to get gear.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Wow. The OP has said numerous times that this thread is not about making money it is about the fact that there is very little to buy for lower levels. He is right. When people on the LS are asking if ANYONE has seer gear to sell - and the answer is "no" - so they are just SoL.

Guess what? Seer gear is crafted only. It doesn't matter how much money a person has if no one is selling it. So for crying out loud - stop making this thread about how noobs should just work harder to make money - and talk about the actual issue - or don't bother posting at all.

Numerous times crafters have said it isn't worth their time to make these things because there are not a lot of new players coming in. It is true. There are not a lot of new players coming in. Out of the ones coming in, there will be very few that are going to have enough gil to make higher level players feel like "crafting for low levels is worth their time." Hell, even if every new player was a gil-making machine - it wouldn't matter cause there are not enough of them to keep things moving on the auction house, so likely as not crafters will still feel like it isn't worth their time.

The game is top-heavy. The gear system was designed with a playerbase with more even level spreads in mind. It was designed with the idea that people would be leveling crafts and skilling up by making gear.

So while all of you can say "oh you don't need the gear anyway - level sync in the dunes till you're 30 then leech Abyssea till cap" but that is not an option for new players. And if new players want to make gil they need decent gears so that they won't die while they are trying to do it. Those gears are not available - AT ALL most of the time.

What happens is the lack of gear is contributing to the lack of new players because - honest to god, there are people who quit over the fact they can't find any equipment.

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Thank you Olor. Im glad there are atleast a few who get it.

OP is flipping out about crafting lulz

The problem is entirely about crafting... either find a crafter or level up a craft skill...

although finding a crafter is really easy these days....

I give up... It is a shame that we cant try to solve something with "SE" without having children play there games. Good luck players. When the game is gone, thank yourselves and remember those elders you didnt listen too...

I just don't understand why people who don't want to help the problem (by crafting and creating supply) don't support the idea of fixing the problem through game design (making crafting more accessible to new players/adding items to npcs)

Also - I like how people are acting like it is oh-so-easy to find a crafter who will take the time to make things for you...

Seriously?

Apparently new people being able to find a crafter is super hard too, despite having more tools than years ago.

Seems like nobody arguing for the helping of new players has any confidence in them whatsoever. =/

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Originally Posted by Olor

Also - I like how people are acting like it is oh-so-easy to find a crafter who will take the time to make things for you...

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Gather materials.
Shout in any city.
Get gear.

Alternative: Find a good linkshell.

you can also search for crafters by server on ffxiah...

just point in click to w/e parameters you want.. ie. lvl 100 bonecraft / bismarck server and click.. you get all the results.. a lot of people use that website.

If someone walks up to me with materials and is actually polite and willing to accept a "No" if I'm busy, I generally wouldn't mind crafting something for them.

The issue is people tend to feel a strong sense of entitlement around crafters. It's plenty easy to find one if you're polite, non-intrusive, take no for an answer when it's given, and you actually thank/tip the crafter afterwards for their time. Crafters aren't obligated to do anything for anyone. More often than not, even if someone is polite in requesting the use of a craft, they get really annoying and self-righteous if the crafter they ask turns them down. "Why can't you just take 5 minutes to do it?" "Pleeeeeeeeaaaase?" "You're such a jackass for not helping me."

It's simply a matter of people asking other people for a favor. You have to show them respect if you want any in turn. If I'm busy and turn down a request to make something, and the person is actually not a total twat about it (This has happened maybe once in my entire playtime =/), I'll contact them when I'm no longer busy and see if they still need anything. On the other hand, when people go twat-mode, I'll just proceed to ignore them in the future.

Proper etiquette regarding tips and thank yous is still important as well. Crafters put a lot of time and gil into their trade. Many people confuse the fact that most crafters don't specifically charge when you bring your own materials with not having to give them any gil. Sure, I won't force you to pay me to craft this for you, but it's common courtesy to tip those who are doing you a service. It is the playerbase's utter lack of etiquette in this area that has also discouraged the crafting base, and has forced many crafters to require a tip-like surcharge for their work in order to get anyone to tip them. This is especially true when someone brings in a large quantity of materials, taking a decent amount of time to make. The crafter is giving up their free time for the patron's benefit, it's only polite to remain considerate of that fact.

That said, I think the OP is being dense. Yes, the original point of the thread was to discuss measures to increase the armor supply that circumvent crafting. However, the Devs have always tried to be very careful when dealing with crafters and player-supplied goods. That's the entire point behind a player-driven economy. We may not be addressing your proposed solution, but we are directly addressing the cause. If there is a lack of armor on the AH, it is because the consumer is not willing to give the product a viable market. Make the market viable, then people will be willing to work in it.

Well its common sense too... don't harass somebody while they are fighting a NM or w/e..

if they are doing a boring ass magian trial.. or standing around town though.. they might be more receptive.

Also don't get pissed if they don't answer immediately, could be afk.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

you can also search for crafters by server on ffxiah...

just point in click to w/e parameters you want.. ie. lvl 100 bonecraft / bismarck server and click.. you get all the results.. a lot of people use that website.

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Oh, see I didn't know this... and I do use xiah and wiki a lot. Thanks for the info. That said - do people really expect new players to know where to look for all of this stuff? I mean seriously?