Severe pet enmity issues post-update... Please fix today.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

A bunch of level 99 pets shouldn't kick the bejesus out of a level 80-85 mob? Are you high?

Despite a whole lotta hate towards pet jobs, if I'm killing something with my pet, I should never get hate just by casting dia II on it. And that's what happened tonight. My pet was was hitting and doing damage to to an umbril, and that thing pursued me to the ends of the earth for one frigging spell. No matter how many times my pet hit it, it would break off and go for me.

That's broken...point blank.

Fix this already.

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Level 99 players can't do the same thing that are not pet without a lot of planning on odin, like aoe stoneskin, phalanx, scherzo. Due to the fact pets take much less damage then players or in the case of smn doesn't matter if it dies. With SMN doesn't matter if their pet dies resummon, bst is just spam items to regain its hp while taking much less damage then a player does.

I seen odin pet burns pre patch and there is no skill or anything involved with it. However if you use actual players you have to be really careful have certain buffs up to survive.

Yeah you can say the same about WoE pet burns, and no one seems to mind about this either and rather preferred method for this. And if you think pet jobs are so OMG unfair!! - then you are high indeed lol. An alliance of normal jobs and melee DD can do a much better damage output, faster, and better than Summoners and Beastmasters can ever dream or hope for. There are a lot of reasons why most of the three pet based jobs currently sitting outside on most endgame events (or used because their one JA: Perfect Defense). As everyone has mentioned here, the HATE ISSUE is BROKEN, especially for pet jobs. Please SE fix this as soon as possible within the next week or so.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Yeah you can say the same about WoE pet burns, and no one seems to mind about this either and rather preferred method for this. And if you think pet jobs are so OMG unfair!! - then you are high indeed lol. An alliance of normal jobs and melee DD can do a much better damage output, faster, and better than Summoners and Beastmasters can ever dream or hope for. There are a lot of reasons why most of the three pet based jobs currently sitting outside on most endgame events (or used because their one JA: Perfect Defense). As everyone has mentioned here, the HATE ISSUE is BROKEN, especially for pet jobs. Please SE fix this as soon as possible within the next week or so.

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With a proper tank there is no issue. As in a what a normal group would have, players taking the damage. Not some throw a bunch of pets at a mob because it doesn't matter if they die or take major reduced damage.

If I am a lets say a drk, I can't solo well in the new expansion because well mobs hit me for a lot I don't have defensive abilities, shouldn't the same thing apply to pet jobs?

SE wanted to bring tanking back to the game. Want to do stuff get a tank like everyone else in the game.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

Welcome to not being able to pet burn, exactly how it should be.

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It's amazing to me how so many people cannot seem to grasp a concept that is so simple. I also don't know where the butt hurt is coming from against pet jobs. There are plenty of jobs capable of (more) impressive solos and there are far more effective set ups than pet burns. It also seems that most of the non-career SMNs have very little idea about how the job is played and has been played since it was introduced.

The enmity issue is effecting ALL mage jobs but is also causing problems for pets. If you think this is some nerf to pet jobs, then you must also think that SE wants SCHs tanking for casting enhancing magic. It just happens to be the case that pet jobs are hit even harder.

I do not know why they have not issued some kind of statement about an issue that is effecting a large portion of the player population. There have been so many posts about Rieve.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If I am a lets say a drk, I can't solo well in the new expansion because well mobs hit me for a lot I don't have defensive abilities, shouldn't the same thing apply to pet jobs?

SE wanted to bring tanking back to the game. Want to do stuff get a tank like everyone else in the game.

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So you're saying that because DRK doesn't have much soloing capability then the jobs that do have the ability to solo should not be able to? If that's the case, then something should be done about DNC, NIN, BLU, RDM, SCH, etc. I hope you realize how ridiculous your statement is.

And let's put aside this belief you have that pet jobs are running around soloing all of the content in this game. These pet enmity issue are on easy prey mobs as well. If you don't think Garuda should be able to keep hate off of the SMN while fighting an EP goblin that she is decimating while the SMN stands there or heaven forbid melees with their oh so powerful magian perpetuation staff, then I really question your view of this game.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Level 99 players can't do the same thing that are not pet without a lot of planning on odin, like aoe stoneskin, phalanx, scherzo. Due to the fact pets take much less damage then players or in the case of smn doesn't matter if it dies. With SMN doesn't matter if their pet dies resummon, bst is just spam items to regain its hp while taking much less damage then a player does.

I seen odin pet burns pre patch and there is no skill or anything involved with it. However if you use actual players you have to be really careful have certain buffs up to survive.

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My LS did old Odin last night and had no problems, sorry your "solution" in this case doesn't seem to work. We took odin down with smn/pups/bst just fine, despite the enmity issues.

When we did ultima that's where the problem arose. Why? We did a more traditional route with actual tanks and healers, and the enmity was so borked it was impossible. Our whm just couldn't cure our paladin to save her life without pulling hate.

So sorry, there is a problem and I personally thing it effects the non pet jobs more than us. Specifically it hurts that type of gaming style you seem to prefer. So before you go nanananing about pet burns getting their just deserts, realize this first.

Also, understand SMN. It NEEDS for the avatar to tank for it, period. If it doesn't, then it is broken. "fixing" a problem by breaking a job, no matter how much the problem needs to be fixed, is -not- a solution.... ever, period. They need to find a different solution.

Finally a post about Enmity on the Japanese forums. We got the same response of how they are implementing the adjustments bit by bit and this was the first step, etc. etc.

They do say that by the end of the month (huh?) they will be adjusting some of the job abilities and spells classified by fixed enmity increases. They plan on lowering the hate increase to about half of what it is now. That last sentence is in a separate paragraph from the previous so I'm not sure what that relates too. The English translation will be up soon I'm sure though.

There is no mention of pets or avatars specifically.

I ask again. Why wasn't all of this done on the test server? I'm really confused.

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Originally Posted by Sasaraixx

They do say that by the end of the month (huh?) they will be adjusting some of the job abilities and spells classified by fixed enmity increases. They plan on lowering the hate increase to about half of what it is now. That last sentence is in a separate paragraph from the previous so I'm not sure what that relates too. The English translation will be up soon I'm sure though. I ask again. Why wasn't all of this done on the test server? I'm really confused.

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Sadly that may be too late for some people. I foresee accounts cancelation already in progress. Most people won't wait months for this kind of respond. Time to take that long break again, and come back in a year lol.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

MOur whm just couldn't cure our paladin to save her life without pulling hate.

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PLD enmity is not generating via DPS, and healing enmity was reduced (Except for Cure V, which wasn't changed), so the only way for a PLD to not keep hate over a WHM is...a bad PLD, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Sasaraixx

The enmity issue is effecting ALL mage jobs but is also causing problems for pets. If you think this is some nerf to pet jobs, then you must also think that SE wants SCHs tanking for casting enhancing magic. It just happens to be the case that pet jobs are hit even harder.

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Not seeing this happen at all. Someone is doing something wrong there. Even if you AoE enhance during a battle that's at most 1800 VE, the same as a provoke. That's not counting any enmity- on the SCH.

They are apparently aware of the issue now. But no course of action will be taken until the end of the month, assuming there is no other major issue. Which means it can be fixed as soon as end of this month or a couple months from now lol.

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Originally Posted by Himrik

PLD enmity is not generating via DPS, and healing enmity was reduced (Except for Cure V, which wasn't changed), so the only way for a PLD to not keep hate over a WHM is...a bad PLD, sorry.

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Exactly how would our paladin keep hate then if you could explain? If it wasn't the two flashes, or the three provokes, or the 7 requisats, reprisals or the 6+ cure IVs, or the shield bashes, or the melee hits.... Explain to me how a Cure 3, a single... cure 3 pulls hate off all of that? A cure 3 with nothing else having been done at all. Then the white mage was killed after the paladin continued to flash, provoke, shield bash, WS, Cure IVed the whm.. and still the whm died.

It should -not-, it wasn't a bad paladin sorry, next time ask for details before assuming bad players, it's highly rude and will garner a rude response from me in turn.

edit: And as the JP forums now say, there IS in fact a problem as you can see. Thank you.

Edit 2: Here is the English post, nothing about pet enmity yet :(

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...502#post415502

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Originally Posted by Kokorololi

Not seeing this happen at all. Someone is doing something wrong there. Even if you AoE enhance during a battle that's at most 1800 VE, the same as a provoke. That's not counting any enmity- on the SCH.

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You seem to be in the minority as most of the other comments I've read point to the opposite.

I have not yet encountering any problems in Abyssea as beast master, summoner or white mage. Everything working as normal. Thank goodness!! But these problems do happen in all areas outside abyssea especially in SoA areas. You can't really do any farming or exploration as Smn or Bst, your pet + avatar cannot hold hate, and mob always running back to you even if you only send them to attack and stand far away. Any JA will ensure the mob run to you 100% guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

Exactly how would our paladin keep hate then if you could explain? If it wasn't the two flashes, or the three provokes, or the 7 requisats, reprisals or the 6+ cure IVs, or the shield bashes, or the melee hits.... Explain to me how a Cure 3, a single... cure 3 pulls hate off all of that? A cure 3 with nothing else having been done at all. Then the white mage was killed after the paladin continued to flash, provoke, shield bash, WS, Cure IVed the whm.. and still the whm died.

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You see, I played all the afternoon as a PUP soloing monsters, and with a few Animated flourishes, my Automaton couldn't take the mob off me even with Cure V or Cure VI, so basically, I don't see any problem with Cure enmity when you do a simple tank job.
Maybe your server is bugged...

If I understood correctly, a WHM pulled hate with a Cure III but the PLD can't get the mob back with several Cure IV ?! If the curing enmity was flawed as you claim, the PLD should get massive hate from Cures.

I think your wrong Xtrasweettea. I don't pretend to know every job, but i do know ALOT about Summoner. ive been playing Summoner since CoP and in the past it has had many problems But its not like someone like me forgets how to play a job just because the games been easy mode for awhile.

PUP is NOT the same thing as SMN

SMN has no choice the avatar MUST tank or the player dies we have no way of provking the mob and we are the 2nd squishiest job right next to BLM...

PUPs dont normally use the Tank frame of there automaton. so unless your using the tank frame and trying to hold hate on your pet its not even the same problem as SMN is having. and even if you did, PUP has so many flexiable options and Provokes that it will probbly not have the same problem.

AND most important I'm here posting about a Bug or a problem with the Update in regards to how they changed hate/Control/Enmity for a job they clearly did not test. Helping to support our loved game to support our Developers and to keep the game fun and rewarding to play. SE makes mistakes in programing it happens its always happend its just human.

It seems like petters are being given the same treatment as ps2 users were this time around, change... live with it?

Enmity is a BIG MESSED UP issue now. Even using charmed T mob, hate is still ALL OVER THE PLACE for beast. A simple regen 2 will draw hate, aquaveil, blink, all draw massive hate, very fast. It does not matter if you have done nothing while your pet deal rather twice the amount of damage to the mob, your pet, jugs or not, CANNOT hold hate period. This apply to Avatar and Bst Pets, does not matter what how and where you stand, the mob will come after you shortly (more broken as summoner). You can't really explore safely as beast, even if you want to play it the old school charm and leave, the mechanic is so broken right now, it's not even worth playing as pet jobs.

Had a similar experience today on SMN with the bees near Bivouac 2 (the ones you need to kill for the quest). Was chewing up my mp too fast on Garuda, so tried to revert to the old Carby Kite to recover some mp. Even popping it for 1k+, Carby could not keep it's attention. I ran a good clip away for my rebuffs/regen and it would come after me. I'm not tallking just past when the HP bar goes away or the battle music stops. This was like a full map square away. Carby had the bee in the clearing near their spawn points, and I was past the bivouac, and sort of around the corner from it.

It was also bad in a group last night--the Pioneer Fomor NM was bouncing all over the place with a PUP and SMN in the mix.

SE really needs to take a close look at pet jobs--NOW...not a month down the line.

Even using items like food will generate enmity...sersly... While my pet Chapuli was smacking an Umbril around the second I used yellow curry bun the Umbril turned right to me and started attacking me.

For jugpets Snarl is a joke, use it and it'll turn and hit the pet once or twice then turn back to me ._.

This thread needs a bump. Here's the developers' response regarding summoners and enmity:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...689#post421689

For the love of God, raise hell, guys. What is said about SMN in this developer post is NOT true.

Wonder if they are saying anything about this on the JP forums? XD

Can we get a straight answer from the developer, do they even play this game as summoner???? The enmity on BP Rage or Ward is BROKEN!!! Please fix this, the decay rate of avatar's hate is extremely fast and Summoner are getting massive hate from doing NOTHING but standing there using BP Rage..... I mean, god, they want feed back - we are giving them feed back, but for christ sake..... it's one thing to be "thick" but this is plain ridiculous. They clearly do not care what we think, or our feedbacks - then they must not want our money....

Has anyone submitted pulling hate as a bug? I mean if you're pulling hate from something they say doesn't generate hate that sounds like a bug to me.

I was reading over the thread again and one or two people mention umbrils. Umbrils have weird hate mechanics to magic iirc. I'm not sure if its been confirmed how it works, but that mob top likes switching to magic users even if they have done basically nothing. So keep this in mind.

It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. Enmity is divided into two categories

VE (Volatile Enmity or Time Volatile Enmity) and CE (Cumulative Enmity or Non-Decaying Enmity)

VE decays rapidly but CE only decays when taking damage. When you are on the enemy's hate list, every action you perform generates at least 1CE. Avatars do not build enmity very well because they do pisspoor damage (since damage enmity got nerfed) and (I think) have some odd HP mechanic they use for calculating enmity loss when taking damage. As a result, avatars are generally sitting at very low enmity so using any job ability or spell will send the mob on a rampage toward the summoner. When they say "these abilities do not generate any enmity" they mean "they do not generate any enmity beyond the absolute minimum systematically possible."

Ultimately though, this is what we, as a player base whole whined and complained for them to do for quite a while. We asked them to make holding hate by auto-attack harder, and they gave it to us! So it's left to us to adapt our playstyles and figure out what we need to do to compensate. (Same goes for the defense update - when I find out who the f*** complained that defense actually needed to be an important stat...)

That aside, it's unlikely that SE cares because SMNs soloing alongside their avatars is probably not their vision of the job.

Finally this issue is being acknowledged - and they are putting a detailed explanation. I sure hope the adjustment is sooner than later though. BUT I do welcome a good reason to take a break from the game and come back in a couple of months after they are fixing a lot of issues and put more good updates on SoA.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

That aside, it's unlikely that SE cares because SMNs soloing alongside their avatars is probably not their vision of the job.

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This implies that SE even has a vision for SMN.

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Originally Posted by Himrik

You see, I played all the afternoon as a PUP soloing monsters, and with a few Animated flourishes, my Automaton couldn't take the mob off me even with Cure V or Cure VI, so basically, I don't see any problem with Cure enmity when you do a simple tank job.
Maybe your server is bugged....

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Maybe my server is bugged too, because my automaton is pulling hate off of me when he casts cure on me or slow on my monster. Something has definitely changed...

Bumping after editing main post.... God help us.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

Bumping after editing main post.... God help us.

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Dont' cast dia.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Dont' cast dia.

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Hello, troll.

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a spell that hits for 0 damage should generate enough enmity to distract from 1200 Chaotic Strikes and 1700 Thunderstorms on the Velkk I fought today. I cast Dia II because avatar Assault damage is so low, and Dia II's defense reduction and light damage over time are the only thing I can do to compensate at all.

Furthermore, Dia II was a complete non-issue enmity-wise before the enmity update.

Pre-update, Shock Squall was an indispensable enmity tool, even making it so I could cast and recast Flash to try to stagger NMs I soloed in Abyssea with no fear of retaliation.

Quadruple-digit spike damage was also effective enough to get an NM to forget about me until the avatar's death before the update. Now, that distraction often lasts less than 45 seconds against non-NMs.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

Hello, troll.

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I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

Have to support Tsukino on this one. All I can say is lesson learned (again), and wasn't even on SMN for this one. Was doing some reive testing on WHM, and really pissed off a bunny without thinking by starting my my usual list of buffs/debuffs. Thankfully, I hadn't fired off any DoT yet and was able to sleep it...but he still got me in the red pretty quick.

One thing that always amused me in this game....no matter how high you get, there's always a cute bunny from hell waiting to eat your face off.

I'm actually concerned about how much enmity is generated for an almost unoticable spell.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

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Here's one of the big problems though: They need to further and specifically adjust how the avatars/pets lose hate when they are hit or adjust the BP/pet TP moves to generate more hate towards them. There shouldn't be any reason to get hate from simple doing a few buffs or one Dia2. I know they are adjusting the way SMN gets that first initial Emnity, so hopefully that'll help abit. Just to give an idea of how bad it is: I was BLM in a delve alliance and came upon a SMN in pt that was fighting a mob. I saw him do a BP and he was meleeing along side his avatar. I cast fresh on him and the mob immediately turned to me and hit me once. I started to walk away and it came after me twice before going back to the avatar. Was pretty funny just from one fresh.

I've def experienced the hate loss from dia2 and buff experiences myself, but never that. Maybe the new fix coming will help lol. Till then back to old school SMN.

I really hope SE shows that they are not completely abandoning pet jobs soon. It's been so long since there has been any good news for BST, SMN and PUP. Last thing they did with BST was nerf one of the only things it had going for it (TH3)

Now pet jobs don't even get the ONE AND ONLY benefit they ever had, which was safe, but slow damage.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Now pet jobs don't even get the ONE AND ONLY benefit they ever had, which was safe, but slow damage.

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Actually, they still do. You just can't do it without someone holding the mob for you anymore.

I have to disagree with the comment about BST, TH3 wasn't the only thing it had going for it. Really the heat it got for having TH3 was overblown, and came from butthurt jerks that just wanted less competition in Dyna. It's rather funny now, because that market's failing hard, it's basically just a huge cat litterbox.

After the recent adjustment and subsequent revision of enmity, it's not so much like playing Pong anymore, but it is still hilarious when I cast Haste and obtain all of the aggro.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

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It seems you mistook my greeting for part of an argument. However, since it is the nature of trolls to misrepresent arguments so that they are easier to attack, I forgive you, because it is difficult to fight against one's own nature.

Regarding my greeting, I have simply identified your species of Beastman based on your posts that I have seen around the forum; it was not because the strongest rebuttal to my complaint that you could muster was a single sentence more akin to sass than reason.

Regarding your never once having attempted to cast Dia while soloing, many MMO players value maximizing their damage potential. In fact, people are often ridiculed when they do not do so. While I am guilty of "pinking" it up on jobs that I do not care about, and I will freely admit that I do not care about those jobs or even attempt to be a presentable dancer for example, I do everything I can to maximize my summoner's damage potential.

I must concede, though, that I can indeed kill things perfectly fine without Dia. Once again, however, summoner is the job I care most about, and a drop in my DPS that the developers did not even intend is unacceptable, especially after they insinuated that they were going to address the issue, and after they directly stated that the enmity generated by Dia II has been cut in half.

Edit:
Tsukino_Kaji, to encourage you to use your critical thinking skills before responding, I ask you to disregard the condescension and the namecalling that exist in my post. Even after disregarding those underhanded argumentative strategies that I confess to have utilized, I believe you will find a logical main idea in my post.